Archimonde vs Lei Shen

[Deleted]

What I meant was the Lich King bit you mentioned has no relation to the matter at hand or the conclusion you made ("So just ask yourself how you compare the Lich King's power vs that of Archimonde and you have your personal answer"). We have canonical fact (either directly or indirectly by feats) that Lei Shen is more powerful than Lich King and Archimonde is more powerful than Lich King, too. How are we supposed to get our personal answers from that? A>C, B>C, how does that help to compare A & B? You might as well remove the Lich King bit and you can still say the same.

Additionally, you don't always need a statement from authors to conclude if one character is more (or less) powerful than the other. Otherwise, 99% of those cross-verse battles would never get a conclusion. Sometimes, you can just do that based on what they have done. It'd only be subjective if we can't get a conclusion from their feats, but that doesn't seem to be the case here.

You make a fair point. Obviously through common sense you can decide which character is more powerful, but remember that this is Blizzard's writing. A character's power depends on the manner in which it serves the plot.

I can't recall them specifically stating that Archimonde is stronger than the Lich King, so even then it's subjective, which is why I used that example.

Yes, I can decide for myself which character is more powerful based on events, but so long as Blizz doesn't state it specifically, it will remain subjective.

[Qualia]

Yes, I can decide for myself which character is more powerful based on events, but so long as Blizz doesn't state it specifically, it will remain subjective.

Is Archimonde being more powerful than Hogger also subjective, then? :P I believe "being subjective" only applies for things that are based on personal opinions or feelings, not facts.

[Deleted]

Is Archimonde being more powerful than Hogger also subjective, then? :P I believe "being subjective" only applies for things that are based on personal opinions or feelings, not facts.

So long as it's not specifically confirmed by the devs, yes, because it isn't fact untill they do.

Look, I didn't think of this. Archimonde is obviously more powerful than Hogger, but it will simply remain my/your opinion. You can dislike it all you want, but that's Blizzard for ya.

[pateuvasiliu]

No, that's not an opinion. You can look at feats to say which is stronger.

[Qualia]

So long as it's not specifically confirmed by the devs, yes, because it isn't fact untill they do.

Look, I didn't think of this. Archimonde is obviously more powerful than Hogger, but it will simply remain my/your opinion. You can dislike it all you want, but that's Blizzard for ya.

You are using wrong term if you say Archimonde being more powerful than Hogger isn't fact - it is. It's just not *canon* until we get an answer from authors. However, it can be fact. Not being confirmed as canon has nothing to do with not being a fact as of the time being.

[Wildmoon]

Malone and Archimonde fought for hours atleast. Archimonde only won because He was able to grab Malorne's Antlers. If Lei-Shen wasn't trying to just imprison him. He probably would of killed him as fast.

That's wrong. Lei Shen didn't try to actively imprison Xuen in the fight. He defeated Xuen and simply decided not to finish him off and imprisoned him instead. Lei Shen and Xuen were quite even in that 1v1 fight.

[Alydael]

So, when the Chronicles went out, Lei Shen was shown as a much stronger figure lore-wise

Yeah, this threw me off lore wise. I played through MOP but never really got the sense of how strong Lei Shen was. Maybe I missed some quest text or something, but I usually read everything....

I did really enjoy the Lei Shen fight though, so I will give it to him

[Rathbourne]

Im gonna give the edge to Archimonde in his prime.Before WoD shit on him,the dude was a warmachine with physical strength that would make Gruul piss his pants and magical prowess that would put Azshara to shame.He was the perfect fighting machine.

Chronicles made Lei Shen a badass and he does have around the same physical and magical combo that Archi has.But i think knowledge and experience would both be on Archimonde's side.Also we dont know if Lei Shen is weak to Fel like Titans were.But Archimondes defeat of Malorne was more impressive than Lei Shen's defeat of Xuen.

[Tack980]

Lich King didn't have a real "1-shot fuck you all spell" in *both* lore and gameplay either, unfortunately.[/QUOTE]

He does, not as flashy, but he is the only person so far to one-shot the whole raid at once and only person lore wise who has actually killed you.

That being said, im going with Archi, just due to more experience, as Lei Shen didn't master his power completely.

[Explorer]

What I meant was the Lich King bit you mentioned has no relation to the matter at hand or the conclusion you made ("So just ask yourself how you compare the Lich King's power vs that of Archimonde and you have your personal answer"). We have canonical fact (either directly or indirectly by feats) that Lei Shen is more powerful than Lich King and Archimonde is more powerful than Lich King, too. How are we supposed to get our personal answers from that? A>C, B>C, how does that help to compare A & B? You might as well remove the Lich King bit and you can still say the same.

Additionally, you don't always need a statement from authors to conclude if one character is more (or less) powerful than the other. Otherwise, 99% of those cross-verse battles would never get a conclusion. Sometimes, you can just do that based on what they have done. It'd only be subjective if we can't get a conclusion from their feats, but that doesn't seem to be the case here.

Was there a canonical statement that Lich King is weaker than Archimonde?

[Rathbourne]

He does, not as flashy, but he is the only person so far to one-shot the whole raid at once and only person lore wise who has actually killed you.

That being said, im going with Archi, just due to more experience, as Lei Shen didn't master his power completely.

It wasnt really a 1 shot spell.It was a powerful spell that did a ton of Shadow damage.It 1 shot us because we were not strong enough to handle it.

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Was there a canonical statement that Lich King is weaker than Archimonde?

Featwise Archimonde is stronger than the Lich King by miles.There is a canonical statement that Lei Shen is stronger than the Lich King however.

[steelballfc]

I don't even know anymore. Archimonde is supposed to be very hard to summon, and even harder to vanquish - he took Hyjal's Ancestral Spirits with himself in that final blast.

And then comes WoD, Gul'dan's right arm summons him, and then like 10 or 20 "adventurers" murder his token lieutenants and then himself with knifes and poles. Maybe Lei Shen DO have the power to defeat him. But remember: The Pantheon is weak to Fel, and Lei Shen got their power. Maybe he also got their weak spot?

my same thought, that why I voted to archimond, the fel would win this battle.

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That's actually wrong, because Archimonde killed Malorne, the protector of Nature. The Axe of Cenarius was simply an extremely sharped axe.

but Explorer still have valid point, maybe fel is weak against " powerful enough " nature.

[MikeBogina]

Featwise Archimonde is stronger than the Lich King by miles.There is a canonical statement that Lei Shen is stronger than the Lich King however.

Can you provide a link to this? Ive tried looking it up myself, but all i find is threads with majority of people saying the Lich King is stronger with no links in them either to this "official" statement.

[Wildmoon]

Was there a canonical statement that Lich King is weaker than Archimonde?

There is no official statement that Lich King is stronger than Mankrik either.

[Rathbourne]

Can you provide a link to this? Ive tried looking it up myself, but all i find is threads with majority of people saying the Lich King is stronger with no links in them either to this "official" statement.

That Lei Shen is stronger than Lich King ? Some one posted it in this thread in the 1st or 2nd page i think.

here it is : https://twitter.com/DaveKosak/status/759552173579591680

[MikeBogina]

That Lei Shen is stronger than Lich King ? Some one posted it in this thread in the 1st or 2nd page i think.

here it is : https://twitter.com/DaveKosak/status/759552173579591680

1on1? Thunder King. But LK is smarter. Army vs Army, Arthas would tear his empire to SHREADS.

That's interesting cause Lich King and Thunder King are 2 powerful beings, but their powers create armies. Arthas triumphs in the grand scale of power then.

Archimonde however, he's an individual. He has armies, but he doesn't empower them and his power isnt tied to them like Arthas and Lei Shen.


Imo
1vs1

Archimonde>LeiShen>Arthas

drop em both on a random world.

Arthas>LeiShen>Archimonde

[pateuvasiliu]

Archimonde>LeiShen>Arthas

drop em both on a random world.

Arthas>LeiShen>Archimonde

What the fuck will Arthas do to Archimonde lmao.

Archimonde destroyed the most powerful (magic-wise) city in the world with a sand castle. This wasn't Goldshire or Lordaeron City, this was Dalaran, with so many wards up the wazoo.

Archimonde is -HUGE-, he has more magic prowess than Azshara ( and that's quite a bit ) and in my opinion he's stronger than Kil'jaeden ( who basically created the LK/Arthas ), because Archimonde was the muscle while Kil'jaeden was the brain.

Then there's also the fact that Frostmourne and Ner'zhul got their power from Kil'jaeden and there's no way in hell a minion can beat the master, that's like Sylvanas beating the Lich King 1v1, just not happening. Ner'zhul had but a glimmer of KJ's power.

When Archimonde is hundreds of meters tall what will 1000 skeletons that can't even reach his toes ( well, he has hooves, but still ) do?

That's not to mention Archimonde himself is one of the strongest warlocks in lore, being able to summon endless waves of demons. Arthas can't raise demons and the demon count is basically infinite.

[darkoms]

It is very funny that people remember what Xuen fought Lei Shen 30 days, Malorne and Archimonde just a few minutes, but they forget that after winning Lei Shen simply continued seizure of Pandaria, and Archimonde was so wounded that he could not match even Malfurion, who was only an apprentice Druid.

[Deleted]

He does, not as flashy, but he is the only person so far to one-shot the whole raid at once and only person lore wise who has actually killed you.

That being said, im going with Archi, just due to more experience, as Lei Shen didn't master his power completely.

Lies, by now there are probably at least a dozen quest that kill you and/or require you to be dead.

[Wildmoon]

It is very funny that people remember what Xuen fought Lei Shen 30 days, Malorne and Archimonde just a few minutes, but they forget that after winning Lei Shen simply continued seizure of Pandaria, and Archimonde was so wounded that he could not match even Malfurion, who was only an apprentice Druid.

That was no source to back up that Archimonde was really injured much. Malfurion's spell just wouldn't let go. That's why he had to teleport away.