Warlocks totally ignored during the Q&A

[Sot4]

Hi I'm bacoñ

Feel free to quote me as well, though I'll tend to disagree with you.

I didn't mean the very top so that was a misstype from me, one of the top (consistent troughout the expanssions) warlocks sounds how you would like it to be typed.
Since u quoted the part about what Verdiisha said, I guess you are aware that you are just proving my point since u have 0 demonology logs whatsoever?

[Azarak]

20% shield? uhh its a 20% sac on your pet, then gives you a shield 400% of that, so its a 80% shield more of

He is referring to Demon Skin, which is 20%. ALSO, Dark Pact is nowhere near 80% because pets have significantly less health than you do. Destruction especially, imps probably have 20% the health you do making the shield less than 20%.

[Gaidax]

He is referring to Demon Skin, which is 20%. ALSO, Dark Pact is nowhere near 80% because pets have significantly less health than you do. Destruction especially, imps probably have 20% the health you do making the shield less than 20%.

Unless you use Sacrifice, which as Destruction you mostly do apart from some outlier cases.

[Baconeggcheese]

I guess you are aware that you are just proving my point since u have 0 demonology logs whatsoever?

And yet what I've said in the thread and in general disagrees with you.

Personally destro's been my favorite spec since 5.0, so even in a perfect world with all things equal you'd still see me playing it 100% of the time.

[Shandalar]

The affs mech issues are the two golden traits being half-useless thanks to the unbelieveable cut of the ghosts. Actually is a half-done spec, nothing else.

[Deleted]

Because again if all 3 specs are close to equal, which they are, then you see the current situation.

That might have something to do with Blizzards gutting of the WoD version of Demonology, from a versatile, mobile spec with amazing execute to our current turret demon summoning and empowerment. Even so, the current lack of mobility still seems preferable over Destructions utter disgrace of a Mastery and Artifact Ability.

[Deleted]

Are you ok? I think you are the confuse

read your post about class balance one more time over and tell me your logic is not retarded as fuck.

[Lucrece]

The affs mech issues are the two golden traits being half-useless thanks to the unbelieveable cut of the ghosts. Actually is a half-done spec, nothing else.

TBH aff is weaker due to numbers tuning, but I see demo as being far more annoying in playstyle limitations than affliction. Numbers tuning is easy to fix, mechanical issues like total lack of mobility due to everything being a hardcast that needs to be followed by a subsequent demonic empowerment hardcast as frequent maintenance buff with tight demon uptime windows and having to line up thal kiel's consumption as a large part of your damage with those restrictions hurts demo a lot.

Doom is also a horrible dot, a 15 sec delay to damage enemies severely limits its use.Would help if it at least gave the warlock a soul shard if the target died with doom on it, or targets who die with doom on them explode for a percentage of the damage to nearby targets.

This will probably be even more salient in Nighthold since Nightmare was a reasonably simple raid outside Cenarius.

[Velarana]

Have fun with that. Valuing haste > int for destro is your starting problem.

My dmg and what everyone is doing would say otherwise.(Sorry u only believe in bad sims lol)

[Dwill]

So, the problem is more fundamental spec design than anything else at this point. If you make all 3 specs equal (they're honestly pretty damned close) then you'll always see destro dominance because of destro's niches and the way that destro deals damage. You would either need to fundamentally move affliction away from being a dot spec, or overtune it to the point where we couldn't not take it. Because again if all 3 specs are close to equal, which they are, then you see the current situation.

There could easily be a couple of QoL chances made to Affliction so that it isn't behind Destruction in nearly every type of situations (Single Target, Cleave, Ramp-up, short lived adds) bar council encounters and still keep all 3 specs relatively close to each other which would let people who enjoy a particular spec play it without feeling like its the wrong choice, something that Blizzard stated more than once that it was a goal of theirs.

Because like you said here:

Personally destro's been my favorite spec since 5.0, so even in a perfect world with all things equal you'd still see me playing it 100% of the time.

Change 5.0 to 3.0 and that's affliction for me.

TBH aff is weaker due to numbers tuning, but I see demo as being far more annoying in playstyle limitations than affliction. Numbers tuning is easy to fix, mechanical issues like total lack of mobility due to everything being a hardcast that needs to be followed by a subsequent demonic empowerment hardcast as frequent maintenance buff with tight demon uptime windows and having to line up thal kiel's consumption as a large part of your damage with those restrictions hurts demo a lot.

Doom is also a horrible dot, a 15 sec delay to damage enemies severely limits its use.Would help if it at least gave the warlock a soul shard if the target died with doom on it, or targets who die with doom on them explode for a percentage of the damage to nearby targets.[/QUOTE]


I agree Demo could use a little tuning in the mobility department but only to a certain degree. Its lack of mobility is one of the thing that keeps it in line from going out of control due to its already amazing single target capacity.

I wouldn't expect any change to Doom since its filling its role quite well already.

[tehdef]

Not sure why but instead of addressing the warlocks issues blizzard totally ignored warlocks in the Q&A today. Input your comments!!

Dear Blizzard,

Why are we #1 in DPS in PvE and PvP?

http://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/Raid_T19H.html

Signed,

Warlocks.

[Dwill]

Dear Blizzard,

Why are we #1 in DPS in PvE and PvP?

http://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/Raid_T19H.html

Signed,

Warlocks.

Good job linking patchwork encounters.

[FelPlague]

He is referring to Demon Skin, which is 20%. ALSO, Dark Pact is nowhere near 80% because pets have significantly less health than you do. Destruction especially, imps probably have 20% the health you do making the shield less than 20%.

significantly?

i have 2 mil Hp on my demo lock
my pet has 1.5 mil
"significant"
imp has about 35% of your health, but destro also has "take reduced damage after life tapping" and "drain life heals more" well afflictions baseline filler is a fucking self heal spell, and a good one at that
also demonskin becomes 40% when you get the traits
also remember dps=healing/shielding with those

[Nethlord]

It's quite a bit different than prismatic crystal, frankly all it does is turn ST into 2 target which is something you *should* be really comfortable doing if you've any intention of playing aff.




While this was true in the past, the issue now is that you can't realistically have all 3 specs up to speed without tremendous luck and effort. It's not just a simple matter of AP, but relics and legendaries as well. My destruction weapon is 905 for instance, my aff weapon is 877, I have two destro berries and no aff one. Now I could have tried to split myself thin between the two specs, but that'd just mean I perform neither as well as I could have. This is also an issue because each individual spec isn't as far apart as they've been in the past, and any time that happens then the most well rounded spec becomes thee spec which you can't fix without homogenizing things which is something they're increasingly shying away from this xpac.

This xpac at least for now is very catered toward the type of player that identifies as an individual spec as opposed to a class. Which is where I imagine you find all the anger about individual specs like aff.



I'm not sure what glaring rotational issues exist. I don't enjoy playing demo at all, but there's nothing fundamentally wrong with it. It'd be perfectly fine staying this way for the rest of the xpac.

I imagine if we see any mechanical changes to demo it'll just be to make it more enjoyable to play, but not because there's anything truly wrong with it.



The only class that's beating me on mythic ursoc is our spriest, and spriests are absolutely broken right now due to surrender.

My personal issue(s) with demo isn't that the rotation doesn't work....it's that for it to work we are stuck in one place in a game the forces you to have to move all the time. Everything with demo is a hardcast, with nearly no relief. Not one of our talents, competitive or otherwise makes a single one of our abilities a simple cast. Shadowy inspiration gets close, but to get the insta-cast, you have to hardcast to begin with....We also bring zero utility...axe toss, but really are you using that often in raids?

There needs to be something, whether in talents or baseline that we get some break-up of all the hard casting. Personally HoG should just go back to being baseline instacast, or at least with diminishing cast time with shard spending if you don't want it to always be a simple cast (4 shards for example=instant, but anything less will have a diminished cast time). Because we have this type of play it make playing demo super fun to play if you never move, or just infuriating if you have to move a smidge and watch your output tumble down super fast.

[Deleted]

They are good for LFR and old school transmog runs, other than that, they are low teir, horrible casters that don't exceed in anything unless you fght 2 enemies at the same time.

[Deleted]

I'm not sure what glaring rotational issues exist. I don't enjoy playing demo at all, but there's nothing fundamentally wrong with it. It'd be perfectly fine staying this way for the rest of the xpac.
I imagine if we see any mechanical changes to demo it'll just be to make it more enjoyable to play, but not because there's anything truly wrong with it.

Tweaking Demonology PvE-wise might not come off as a high priority due to their ST damage but being static+lifetap+DE in PvP the rest of xpac? Are you out of your blithering mind? Its barely passable atm even with all the hardcasting but with 7.1 shield & interrupt immunity nerf, things ain't going to be pleasant.

[Deleted]

why are these kind of threads always full of people feeling the need to post stuff like "I am top DPS in my 2/7 NHC raid so lock is obviously fine" or "I personally enjoy my spec therefore it's perfectly balanced!!11"? obviously if you are playing WoW casually and don't really care to compete against other classes you will be fine with pretty much any playable state of Warlock. but that doesn't mean that the class is in a good spot right now. why do you feel the need to make this about your own feelings when the hard facts are right in front of your faces? but in a way I do envy you people that can get rolled in an instance by a mage with trash gear and still enjoy your class.

[Baconeggcheese]

There could easily be a couple of QoL chances made to Affliction so that it isn't behind Destruction in nearly every type of situations (Single Target, Cleave, Ramp-up, short lived adds) bar council encounters and still keep all 3 specs relatively close to each other which would let people who enjoy a particular spec play it without feeling like its the wrong choice, something that Blizzard stated more than once that it was a goal of theirs.

So, destro's kit is objectively better than the other 2 specs kits predominately because destro's always been about heavy hitting direct damage. That ends up being more useful on the fights that brick wall guilds during progress almost every time. In order for people to want to take a dot spec over a spec that can better do priority damage, the dot spec has to sustain significantly higher than the direct damage spec. Not just a lil higher, significantly higher. You already see this with demo, its ST sustains a fair bit higher than destro's, but most people still flock to destro and don't even bother swapping for ST.

They can't just bring the spec in line with destro for it be a realistic alternative. It'd need to be stronger, or have mechanical changes that give it options for those situations that destro has answers to that aff / demo don't. Which is why I say they'd need to move it away from being a dot spec or over tune it, neither of which are realistic options.

Aff needs more than QoL.

Destructions utter disgrace of a Mastery and Artifact Ability.

Dunno, don't really have an issue with those. It literally always averages out over the course of the encounter, it actually helps a ton that its on all of our primary casts since it gives it way more spells to average out over. Rift rng never matters much either.

I'd prefer if both were more consistent or controllable, but really they aren't an issue.

My personal issue(s) with demo isn't that the rotation doesn't work....it's that for it to work we are stuck in one place in a game the forces you to have to move all the time. Everything with demo is a hardcast, with nearly no relief.

Lack of mobility has kind of been warlocks thing over the years, should be used to it by now. It's not terribly difficult to play around, you just need to plan for it.

Demo for instance has to life tap more often than the other specs, which translates to globals that can be spent on movement. Doom reapplications are obviously a thing, and as a last resort you can always demonwrath and pray for a shard. It's not ideal and extremely limited, but that's not exactly new.

[Zandalariprelate]

@Lucrece

If you're losing to demonhunters, one of the worst single target specs in the game, on Ursoc, you should go back to LFR where you belong.

Can you put your logs pls ? If you cant then STFU, I am raiding for now just heroic because my guild 1 week ago have just returned from the game(change of realm, choosing classes and those things) But the demon hunter is doing well in single target with less gear than a warlock just look in logs.

If you are toping then your guildmates are even worse than you
@Dwill

If a Havoc Demon Hunter beats your other DPS in more than half the fights in EN, that's not a Warlock issue.

Another dumbass, pls at least look at warcraftlogs and compare who are the top dps players(no the raking of specs, the player ranking and you will see demon hunters in the top 100 and how much warlock? 0)

[Deleted]

Lack of mobility has kind of been warlocks thing over the years, should be used to it by now. It's not terribly difficult to play around, you just need to plan for it.

Demo for instance has to life tap more often than the other specs, which translates to globals that can be spent on movement. Doom reapplications are obviously a thing, and as a last resort you can always demonwrath and pray for a shard. It's not ideal and extremely limited, but that's not exactly new.

Well its only partly true that the lack of mobility has being a lock thing over the years because of the changes we've gotten and taken away. As years went on we were given abilities that contributed to our mobility such as Kil'jaeden's Cunning, Demonic Circle, Demonic Leap, a good arsenal of instant spells etc. and its only because of the hefty legion changes we now feel how impactful and devastating it is, its like going on a freaking cold turkey.

Something not being ideal is the perfect reason to question it and request for some changes, thus making me question why people are hell-bent on it being fine as it is. I'd say demo's performance in overall terms is fair in PvE (after including movement) and very very questionable in PvP.
While I personally would love some major changes for a flavour more similar to WD (D3), its not really necessary but it wouldn't take nor change much to tweak some small things to give us more freedom (DE movement & mana cost reduction).