[Balance] Legion Discussion

[MV Kaa]

Yeah but what your missing is I got sat for melee doing 50k more dps.... Without their BIS legendary. We need helm to compete with other classes without good legendaries once they have good legendaries even helm puts us middle to bottom of the pack.. 100% we get a buff in 7.1 tuning pass. Or else I'm hopping to greener pastures. If were not fixed by 7.1 tuning pass Ill be gearing my mage for Nighthold.

What buffs would make you happy? Another all around buff to everything like last time? Maybe some buffs to talents? Id love to see shooting stars get buffed a little along with FoE.

[Deleted]

FoE should get a radius increase atleast imo, it also sucks that mastery has no impact on it at all.

I've been trying to use FoE in +10's +11's and +12's but I think it's just way to hard to utilize properly as of now. Way to long of a cooldown and especially this week with volcanic you can get fucked quite hard if you have to move while trying to sustain it. I'm doing a lot more consistent AoE dps with SS/NB, which isn't realiant on any cooldown and won't fail if I have to move or stop casting etc.

[ChickenChaser]

What buffs would make you happy? Another all around buff to everything like last time? Maybe some buffs to talents? Id love to see shooting stars get buffed a little along with FoE.

Ive said before what I think should happen with the class...

Starsurge now costs 35 AP down from 40
Starfall now costs 50 AP down from 60
Legendary Helm Now reduces AP cost of Starsurge by 7 per stack Down from 10.

QOL fix to make the helm not as much a requirement. also Starfall just costs too much right now

Starfall buffed by 30-50%
Echoing Stars Talent Buffed by 300-400% (currently its literly sub 2% damage on an aoe pack.... its basically useless compared to other classes aoe gold traits)

Our Aoe is dogshit compared to other classes. I mean maybe if we can dot up every target and mobs live for over a Minute but short duration adds we are just bad at..


Empowerment's Now Update Dynamically.
Mastery has been Increased by 15-25%

Remove snapshotting and buff mastery in return for the DPS loss of snapshotting being gone. There is no "skill" involved in snapshotting Our dps right now is purely based around getting a sub 10% proc chance trinket to proc within the first minute of the pull and snapshotting it. If it procs on pull you do 30k more dps. If it doesn't proc till 2 min in you do 30k less. Nothing skillful about that.....

Lunar Strike buffed by 10%
Solar Wrath buffed by 10%

Small 2.5-4% single target dps gain just to bring us up a bit since the other changes are mostly QOL


These changes would put us to somewhere about equal to fire mage/Warlock and make us worth our raid spot even without BIS legendary.

[MV Kaa]

I like those ideas, but it seems actually retarded that they havnt fixed the mastery snapshotting by now

[Deleted]

I like those ideas, but it seems actually retarded that they havnt fixed the mastery snapshotting by now

If they fix the mastery snapshotting without buffing us we're gone.

[Lahis]

If they fix the mastery snapshotting without buffing us we're gone.

Don't expect any buffs to compensate if they remove the snapshotting.

Which I think they'll do because snapshotting shouldn't exists in the game anymore.

[MV Kaa]

If they fix the mastery snapshotting without buffing us we're gone.

I doubt they will. Since like 98% of moonkins dont utilize it.

[Lahis]

I doubt they will. Since like 98% of moonkins dont utilize it.

Granted, there aren't that many temporary big mastery buffs available at the moment. SFC propably being the only prominent one.

[ChickenChaser]

I doubt they will. Since like 98% of moonkins dont utilize it.

I'd say 90% don't but when you look at 90+% logs on wow progress we actually go down 2 spots from 70% logs. IE when people start doing everything right for their class we are even lower... even snapshotting and using our class to its fullest.

Regardless Mastery needs a buff especially if they want to balance everything around empowerments.

[Alame]

Ive said before what I think should happen with the class...

Starsurge now costs 35 AP down from 40
Starfall now costs 50 AP down from 60
Legendary Helm Now reduces AP cost of Starsurge by 7 per stack Down from 10.

QOL fix to make the helm not as much a requirement. also Starfall just costs too much right now

Starfall buffed by 30-50%
Echoing Stars Talent Buffed by 300-400% (currently its literly sub 2% damage on an aoe pack.... its basically useless compared to other classes aoe gold traits)

Our Aoe is dogshit compared to other classes. I mean maybe if we can dot up every target and mobs live for over a Minute but short duration adds we are just bad at..


Empowerment's Now Update Dynamically.
Mastery has been Increased by 15-25%

Remove snapshotting and buff mastery in return for the DPS loss of snapshotting being gone. There is no "skill" involved in snapshotting Our dps right now is purely based around getting a sub 10% proc chance trinket to proc within the first minute of the pull and snapshotting it. If it procs on pull you do 30k more dps. If it doesn't proc till 2 min in you do 30k less. Nothing skillful about that.....

Lunar Strike buffed by 10%
Solar Wrath buffed by 10%

Small 2.5-4% single target dps gain just to bring us up a bit since the other changes are mostly QOL


These changes would put us to somewhere about equal to fire mage/Warlock and make us worth our raid spot even without BIS legendary.

These are good ideas, but not unique ones. Either these specific changes or changes that address the same purpose have been suggested multiple times throughout the development cycle. Problem is Blizzard and those with the ear of the designers don't feel them necessary.

They also have some issues - Starfall & Echo changes would suddenly make the spell broken and Balance auto-includes on persistant-AoE fights (like council fights, none of which are present in EN) and having ED give a non-5 multiple of AsP will end up having odd points of AsP kicking around in your bar until they either end up as a multiple of 5 or get over-written by capping - not a playstyle issue, but a design one.

[Lens Hunter]

Im bored of my Boomy, trying to find something else to play. I feel like absolute garbage playing this class. Im doing the damage my gear allows, and maybe a little more, but melee and Fire Mages around my level and +10 item levels are just destroying me. Its demoralizing.

[Kilma]

I'm 863 and feel fine in the dps department with out a legendary. If I get any of the top legedaries (Helm, Bracers, Ring) I'll be doing WAY better. Balance doesn't really need that many buffs in the damage department. I just want Roar/Vortex/40% defensive.

[Madus]

Pretty sure this is caused by there being no strong identity of what Balance druid is within the class design team. Three completely different designs across three expacs is pretty indicative of that. They're just throwing ideas against the wall and hoping one of them will stick, but they're not taking what works out of each iteration and carrying it forward into the next one.

What you mean ? missing defining mechanic like overloads/ignites ?

They also have some issues - Starfall & Echo changes would suddenly make the spell broken and Balance auto-includes on persistant-AoE fights (like council fights, none of which are present in EN) and having ED give a non-5 multiple of AsP will end up having odd points of AsP kicking around in your bar until they either end up as a multiple of 5 or get over-written by capping - not a playstyle issue, but a design one.

I wonder why this is problem, i mean if we are not supposed be strong on "some"(nonexistant right now) fights then why there are even dot specs ?
If Dot based spec are not supposed to shine on multiple long live targets then make them one target only and make sfall burst aoe, problem solved homogenized as other classes, only difference you need 7 binds for single target compared to 3 like other casters...
Imho this "dots cannot shine" mentality is retarded and very wrong design choice.

Also from IH Q&A: "All specs can't have strong and consistent AoE. The team wants there to be areas of strength and weakness."
So strong burst aoe is ok, but strong persistant aoe is not? wtf

[huth]

Also from IH Q&A: "All specs can't have strong and consistent AoE. The team wants there to be areas of strength and weakness."
So strong burst aoe is ok, but strong persistant aoe is not? wtf

Not every spec can be strong in the same area, or none of them are.

[Madus]

Not every spec can be strong in the same area, or none of them are.

Not sure what are you trying to say.
Do it mean that Blizz doesnt divide AoE to burst AoE and persistent AoE with ramp up time?

[huth]

Not sure what are you trying to say.
Do it mean that Blizz doesnt divide AoE to burst AoE and persistent AoE with ramp up time?

I'm saying that you misunderstood the quote. He wasn't talking about the AoE, he was talking about specs being different.

[Madus]

I'm saying that you misunderstood the quote. He wasn't talking about the AoE, he was talking about specs being different.

Imho i understood it perfectly fine and i quoted it just for this "strength and weakness" part. Our spec weaknes is aoe and ST, while our strength should be council like fights. So if that mean moonkin auto-include of council like fights then i dont see it broken.
Edit: what i found broken is that we should not have weak ST, weak Burst AoE and Strong rampup AoE while there are other specs with Strong ST and Strong Burst AoE... Like 2strong+1weak is ok but 1strong + 2weak sucks.

[Tyze]

Only thing thats bothering me is the ramp up in aoe, it's pretty annoying not being able to do a big aoe when needed.

[ChickenChaser]

These are good ideas, but not unique ones. Either these specific changes or changes that address the same purpose have been suggested multiple times throughout the development cycle. Problem is Blizzard and those with the ear of the designers don't feel them necessary.

They also have some issues - Starfall & Echo changes would suddenly make the spell broken and Balance auto-includes on persistant-AoE fights (like council fights, none of which are present in EN) and having ED give a non-5 multiple of AsP will end up having odd points of AsP kicking around in your bar until they either end up as a multiple of 5 or get over-written by capping - not a playstyle issue, but a design one.

They said they want everyone to have a niche too "for example feral does little to no aoe but is top single target" was one of their quotes too..... If they want to give us 0 AOE and make it honestly where using starfall is almost a dps loss in most situations then buff our single target by 25% and make us feral druids..... Right now Boomkins have a niche its called bench spec.

Worse case they dont buff starfall they need to makle it equal cost to Starsurge and cost MAX 40. cause a DH with 1 fel change does more damage than we do in 20 seconds of having to ramp up aoe. and that is beyond "we don't every class equal" level... My proposed changes would still make us do 50% of a DH/Fire Mage/Rogue.

[Deleted]

I'd like to see AC baseline (again) and the talent grant 2 charges or reduces the cooldown by half, or is that too OP? :P