Healer Punishment in Legion

[Deleted]

tottaly agree with OP.
want to meet those dps-es and tanks who make healer job easier than theirs in m+, never met them so far.

[XDurionX]

Yeah this is more of a pug rant than a healer rant. We're in this together, if the healer fails, the group fails, so i do everything i can to improve the healers situation. If you don't want to be blamed for every mistake, don't run anonymous pugs.

[Puri]

I do not agree at all. Difficulty stays pretty much the same for healers during increasing m+ levels (you can only heal what you can heal. Several mechanics are unhealable, especially in higher levels).
It's on the tank and dps to mitigate and avoid as much damage as possible while still trying to do their best. If you play with people who keep standing in fire then you are simply playing with the wrong people. It's not the duty of the healer to prevent dumb deaths.

And it also does not fall down to pugging. I have often healed in pugs, most were fine, some had the problem that people kept dying. But in no case I was blamed. The blame always went to the dps who did not pull the CD or interrupt where it was necessary, or took damage he could have avoided. And even then most of them have the insight to admit "Omg I failed so hard, sry guys".

People also rarely look at recount and say: Wow, you are a bad healer. But as dd, if you are doing bad dps (that does not correlate to your itemlevel/class), you will get heavily flamed in m+ pugs.

[Deleted]

Legion has to be one of the worst Expansions so far to be a Healer. The ENTIRE m+ Affix mechanic is tailored towards making m+ harder for healers but basically non-existent for anyone else.

Take sanguine. Tank only has to move 3 meters and hes fine. Thats it for him and the DPS. But if they don't do it, basically nothing really changes for them but the healer has to spam heals like a madman on them while trying to somehow get them out of that voidzone. If he doesnt succeed in doing so, people call him shit for not healing the group.

I have 5 Alts (splitfarming mythic raiding guild) and 2 of them are healers, one is a tank and one DPS, a rogue.

When i do M+ chains with my healers, its always 5 times as stressful as playing DPS or Tank. Of course, this has always been this way, healing was always "harder". But in Legion, things are getting out of control.

- The output of healing spells compared to the total HP of players and the damage they take is way off. Having to use all healing cooldowns to do a trashgroup in a +10+ mythic dungeon is insane. And even that is usually not enough, depending on the dungeon.

- DPS players are more braindead than ever before. Every pug run is basically a random difficulty, people dont move out of anything, people dont ever interrupt, they don't use their defensive cooldowns, they don't use their selfhealing (those very few who still have that)

- Healer are still blamed for quite literally everything. You are constantly on edge in a dungeon when your group is playing like shit again and the second someone dies "OMG HEALS?!?!?". Of course this can be countered by running a guild group.

- Most of the Mythic Raidbosses are pretty much healing encounters. A healer has to do the same as everyone else(including DPS for hpallys on certain bosses or Disc priests) while being the only one who suffers from the mistakes of everyone else. Tank is shit? Good luck keeping him alive. People dont execute the encounter mechanics as intended? Yeah, the healer is gonna pay for it. Players don't do their required damage on Ursoc mythic? Gotta let the healers prepott deadly grace and DPS for the first 30 seconds.

Of course all of the above has always been the case, but it has never been this extreme ESPECIALLY with the M+ affixes. For DPS and Tank players, M+ LITERALLY does not get harder, at all, in any way. If i do a +10 run on my rogue for the weekly chest i literally cant tell +4 or +10 apart except from trash having a bit more health. The affixes don't affect me at all. As a healer, a +10 run can be an absolute nightmare depending on the affixes.

Healer abuse is common and everywhere, and i know so many people who are literally AFRAID of playing a healer because of all these things. Its not like that they don't like the playstyle, they are simply scared.

I like playing healer. But what if you play these mythic + with ppl that effort into moving out of stuff and avoid, avoidble damage? This DOES effect the dps, cause they have to move 3 meters and so do lower DPS than they normally will.

I understand where you come from, playing with total #E#(@* or absolute ##$#%@%%@ but if you play with friends, you are in it together and then it all works out very well balanced

[Deleted]

TBH it doesn't even sound like OP has even done high mythic+, even the unavoidable mechanics (eg. pebble throwers neth's lair) have to be outranged etc. on high mythic + because the damage is simply so high as to be 1 shot territory for dps.

I'm sure mythic + isn't a cake walk for healers but i can promise you tanking them isn't a walk in the park either, bad cd/am management and i'm dead, bad use of group wide cc/interrupts/etc. and i'm dead and i know there's little the healer could have done to help.

[Deleted]

I have to say I disagree quite strongly with the opening post. I've only done up up M+8 so I don't know if it gets harder after that, but if the tank isn't moving out of Sanguine pools and people die, then that's the tanks fault. As a healer I'm not going to be blamed for that and I'll be pretty vocal about it if anyone tries. As a Holy Priest if anyone stands in shit, they're getting life-gripped. It usually lets people know not to do it again.

I actually love healing in Legion, particularly M+.

[Life-Binder]

its stressful for sure but I havent seen much blame being put on healers



and DPS need to "worry" about the DPS meters a lot, low number = you can go bye-bye

tanks and healers dont have that

[Shadow Fox]

its stressful for sure but I havent seen much blame being put on healers



and DPS need to "worry" about the DPS meters a lot, low number = you can go bye-bye

tanks and healers dont have that

I've seen plenty of people complaining with meter links for HPS number, or Damage-taken/Healing recieved numbers. :P

[Life-Binder]

I've seen plenty of people complaining with meter links for HPS number, or Damage-taken/Healing recieved numbers. :P

in 5-mans ?

[Glorious Leader]

People also rarely look at recount and say: Wow, you are a bad healer.

Seen it happen. Usually leave those groups when it does.

[Rezark]

Personally because of all these affixes I think its the BEST expansion to play a healer. I no longer have to watch TV and/or read things on another screen to stop the boredom healing dungeons.

[Topornic]

Honestly I feel healing in Legion is less stressfull than was in WoD, I actually wanted to quit healing during first months, and eventually did so changing to main DH now. But as I am still doing some occasional dungeon mythic + runs and pug raids I don't feel like it's really that hard/stressful

[Deleted]

This seem more to be the view of a pugging Mythic+ healer, I guess? For, I am not really able to agree with you

Exactly.
None of the problems described by the OP are problems related to Mythic+ design.
The only "problem" is - it's not really designed to be ran with uncordinated group. Get your group on voice-chat and go from there - I bet things will improve.

The fact that you can't run them with keyboard facerollers is not a problem - it's a benefit of the M+ design.

[Tradu]

Problem is if you shift some of the responsibility onto DPS, the encounter gets far more stressful for everyone, because the average DPS'er cannot handle doing much more than his rotation. Wildstar was the perfect example of this. There's an interrupt mechanic where so many interrupts must be used on a mob before you can actually stop it casting. In a 5 man group, you normally needed 2 or 3. You could only ever have 10 skills on your hot bar, so a tank could not feasibly have enough interrupting skills to get through wipe causing damage, meaning DPS needed to equip and use interrupts. The first few dungeons I did were an absolute clusterfrak, as the group repeatedly wiped on avoidable damage, and when you asked the DPS to put interrupts on their hot bars and use them, you just got silence and blank stares.

Yeah, healers/tanks are gods and DPS are braindead morons. I guess that's why most healers just afk when there's nothing to heal instead of contributing damage. Oh wait, no, that's because there's bad players of every role.

OT: So basically you're complaining that people in PuGs are morons? That's nothing new and not an issue with the game itself.

[Deleted]

Exactly.
None of the problems described by the OP are problems related to Mythic+ design.
The only "problem" is - it's not really designed to be ran with uncordinated group. Get your group on voice-chat and go from there - I bet things will improve.

The fact that you can't run them with keyboard facerollers is not a problem - it's a benefit of the M+ design.

Yeah we had a main feral heal m+8 (he barely skilled his heal weapon) and he found it quite easy to heal. He had 1.80 mio hp, so a well geared healer with many artifact traits could faceroll our group.

But we DDs playe d a lot together. We had stun rotations, experince how to handle groups and so on. In most guild grps, healing is very easy.

On +12 everything is stressful. For dps too. You need to avoid everything,never stand in any cleave and so on. We used on potions on many trash pulls. And we talked a lot about who interrupts which target, when the tank starts kiting adds and so on.

The whole discussion isnt about healers jobs being more difficult. It is about group coordination. Btw we had a very good druid healer always telling us when he had cds ready so we could push hard or when we had to use CC or defenmsive CDs. That worked great and we all had a lot of fun. The healer

[Dundebuns]

Yeah, healers/tanks are gods and DPS are braindead morons. I guess that's why most healers just afk when there's nothing to heal instead of contributing damage. Oh wait, no, that's because there's bad players of every role.

OT: So basically you're complaining that people in PuGs are morons? That's nothing new and not an issue with the game itself.

Of course there are bad players in every role. However people who play tank and healer tend to have more awareness than those that DPS, since playing a role which requires more critical thinking teaches said players to have more awareness.

[goblingirl]

There was a thread a while back about things they could do to dps making it bad for em to stand in bad, how about an affix where if you take avoidable aoe or interruptable damage your dps/max hp goes down?
Lasts a few seconds each stack and WILL fall off granted they get out of the bad? Say 5% dps loss a stack, stacks each tick of avoidable void zone/fire/etc, and falls off after 5 sec

I wish this was instituted across the board in all dungeons and raids, honestly. People bear no consequences for standing in bad, as long as there are healers capable of keeping them up.

There's a lot less "blaming the healer" these days thanks to the extensive logging available (we can see you stood in bad), but really DPS needs some "enforcement" mechanism. Many of them would become better overall players if more of their dps depended on observing mechanics.

I will say that this is the first expansion since WotLK that I am not main spec resto. I had access to beta, and I knew what was coming, and I had no interest in healing some of this stuff. Despite the "L2P" posts, the OP is right - most of the affixes are simply a healing test. I've been having a pretty good time playing balance. I threw 13 points into my resto artifact "just in case" but have not yet needed to use it.

[Joeydivision82]

What you're saying is, if thevtanks and DPS don't do their jobs it makes it harder for healers. I've played since vanilla and a healer since BC, that is how it has ALWAYS been.

Have you forgotten about the standing in fire jokes? People standing in FRONT of the boss and causing a party that kills your tank? This isn't something new by any stretch, it just sounds like you want to faceroll Mythic+ and throwing a tantrum that you can't.

[Deleted]

Dont PUG if you dont enjoy it. Play with your friends and guild members. Pretty sure that M+ was designed around that.concept - stuff to do on non-raid evenings as a guild / group of friends.

Yeah in PUGs people screw up alot- it is just more easy to see as they get punished (and in the end the healer too) for making mistakes and/or not using defensive stuff right.
To me things seems to be fair. The problem is that people think they can blame one single person if the group fails. But often it is more than 1 person who fails when stuff goes wrong.
Stop the blame-game if you want successful M+, and play with people at same skill+ gear level as you, people you know like friends or guildmembers.
Remember it is just a game- you are supposed to enjoy the time you spend on it. Whining and rage quitting isn't fun for anyone.

[Deleted]

It's infuriating as a healer to do pugs, but that's the pug life for you. I've stuck to just doing +2 and +3 because I just don't trust other players :P