Crusade not DEAD in 7.1?

[Saintlel]

Yes you did.
While at it, you could point out erratic behaviour of Echo of Ten Percents.
It has critchance of it's own it seems, and doesnt scale with Criticals done by original TV/DS.
Though it does scale with Judgement of Colossal Smashing Msatery(of Lothar) debuff.

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It was going to be straight definition of Overpowered Imbalanced HolyRapeTrain in PvP actually.

How is it better than Holy Wrath cheese and DP?

You realize it has a ramp up time on damage increase that you wouldn't even be able to get off with full haste and relics in PVE right? You'd be giving up so much wings damage, just for spamming judgment when you could just be using normal wings like rets are now

[Morally Grey Storm]

How is it better than Holy Wrath cheese and DP?

You realize it has a ramp up time on damage increase that you wouldn't even be able to get off with full haste and relics in PVE right? You'd be giving up so much wings damage, just for spamming judgment when you could just be using normal wings like rets are now

Oh I don't know, because of the way Judgement would interact with Greater Judgement and Lawbringer talents maybe.

[Viradiance]

Oh I don't know, because of the way Judgement would interact with Greater Judgement and Lawbringer talents maybe.

Yeah split pressure Ret in RBGs would've been nuts with Newsade, but overall glad to see it gone.

[OrcsRLame]

Hell fucking yes!

[ThePants999]

Woooooooo! Success!

[caervek]

Happy times

[VainEldritch]

Oh stop hating on BoW. Our viability does not hinge on it. You still got BoV if you don't want procs.

The disappearance of blade of light is the real concern.

If BoL is removed that equates to - what? - a 5% across the board nerf. Plus we don't know that this is intended since both Crusade and BoL are seemingly disabled in PTR (at present).

Any-hoo - great news on Crusade!

[Anardel]

The Light prevails!!

[Snegovik]

The talent was straight shit for PVE and PVP, I don't know why you were excited

Basically with our pvp talent, every time judgement hits target, enemy player loses 5% hp as a base line, before any dmg from judgement itself or any other sources of dmg. So picture now, 3x rets in 3s, spec that talent, spec mass judgement (so judgement hits 3 targets, crit 100% above 50% hp) so basically every time 3x Rets cast judgmenet 2 or even 3 enemy players lose 15% hp Per cast, before Any dmg, now also plug in equation that Rets can Sac each other out of stuns/fear + bubble + pvp trinket + ashbringer trinket which will very hard for some comps to peel them, it def opens up some broken comps, or even better example in RBGs, 7x Rets, thats 35% Hp lose Per cast before any dmg on 3 targets....so you can see how that can be an issue.

[Deleted]

It's the reduced Cooldown of BoW. I don't hate procs, but there will be some extra down time with Blade of Justice just being...BoJ(Which has a longer cooldown). That's my complaint. Damage wise well not really worried about that right now

With more gear and more haste BoV essentially becomes old BoW. I think that is why they changed it. Too similar. I like having a more interesting choice now.

[Deleted]

But the new Crusade Mechanics are SOOO much better!
Huge AE / Cleave Burst, and not only Single Target. + Range DMG which would have been incredibly powerfull for PvP and usefull for PvE too.

IDK why every1 was hating on the iteration of Crusade? Just because it didnt stack fast enough and it simmed DPS was lower? U know a simple easy feedback would have been +5-6% / Stack and the new Crusade would have been a ton better.

Its sad that "But my Deeps will be lower" Cry-Babies convinced Blizzard to not make a GOOD change.
Sometimes i wish Blizzard wouldnt listen to their mindless customers, and just do their things.

Old Crusade was JUST dmg, new Crusade could have been the same DMG and a ton more utility! Praise the forums for making us NOT better!

[Deleted]

But the new Crusade Mechanics are SOOO much better!
Huge AE / Cleave Burst, and not only Single Target. + Range DMG which would have been incredibly powerfull for PvP and usefull for PvE too.

IDK why every1 was hating on the iteration of Crusade? Just because it didnt stack fast enough and it simmed DPS was lower? U know a simple easy feedback would have been +5-6% / Stack and the new Crusade would have been a ton better.

Its sad that "But my Deeps will be lower" Cry-Babies convinced Blizzard to not make a GOOD change.
Sometimes i wish Blizzard wouldnt listen to their mindless customers, and just do their things.

Old Crusade was JUST dmg, new Crusade could have been the same DMG and a ton more utility! Praise the forums for making us NOT better!

Maybe because it wasn't fun?
Spamming Judgement like a machine gun isn't really interesting.

The live Crusade brings not only damage but also tons of haste which actually speeds up your rotation so the pally feels more like a really fast class.
But you don't lose the rotation to simple button smashing.

[Deleted]

Maybe because it wasn't fun?
Spamming Judgement like a machine gun isn't really interesting.

The live Crusade brings not only damage but also tons of haste which actually speeds up your rotation so the pally feels more like a really fast class.
But you don't lose the rotation to simple button smashing.

The new Crusade would have changed our rotation, personally i think thats alot more fun instead of just pressing buttons faster.
Every1 is different though, but theres no doubt that the new crusade would have added SOOO much more useful, and i just dont get the point whats so bad about that?

[Deleted]

But the new Crusade Mechanics are SOOO much better!
Huge AE / Cleave Burst, and not only Single Target. + Range DMG which would have been incredibly powerfull for PvP and usefull for PvE too.

IDK why every1 was hating on the iteration of Crusade? Just because it didnt stack fast enough and it simmed DPS was lower? U know a simple easy feedback would have been +5-6% / Stack and the new Crusade would have been a ton better.

Its sad that "But my Deeps will be lower" Cry-Babies convinced Blizzard to not make a GOOD change.
Sometimes i wish Blizzard wouldnt listen to their mindless customers, and just do their things.

Old Crusade was JUST dmg, new Crusade could have been the same DMG and a ton more utility! Praise the forums for making us NOT better!

New Crusade would have introduced mechanical changes that clash with our core gameplay, artifact and 4p tier set bonus. Overloading with Holy Power, cutting Wake of Ashes from our burst and rotation, punishing us for dumping Holy Power before Crusade with Judgment up on the targets etc.
Having it stack faster/higher would not solve anything about it.

It was an interesting concept that Blizzard will hopefully improve later, but the 7.1 incarnation of Crusade would be inferior to not having a level 100 talent in most PvE encounters and seriously overpowered in PvP with the right set of talents.

[Vuagnon]

But the new Crusade Mechanics are SOOO much better!
Huge AE / Cleave Burst, and not only Single Target. + Range DMG which would have been incredibly powerfull for PvP and usefull for PvE too.

IDK why every1 was hating on the iteration of Crusade? Just because it didnt stack fast enough and it simmed DPS was lower? U know a simple easy feedback would have been +5-6% / Stack and the new Crusade would have been a ton better.

Its sad that "But my Deeps will be lower" Cry-Babies convinced Blizzard to not make a GOOD change.
Sometimes i wish Blizzard wouldnt listen to their mindless customers, and just do their things.

Old Crusade was JUST dmg, new Crusade could have been the same DMG and a ton more utility! Praise the forums for making us NOT better!

The new crusade would completely destroy stat balance and talent selection as it would force people into speccing into GJ, which would cause critical strike chance to be become worthless. They should just change mastery if they want it more important instead of squashing the spec all together like a bug without god damn communication whatsoever. Oh, and while they are at it they should also get rid of the retarded blessings for the sake of holy light!

[Deleted]

New Crusade would have introduced mechanical changes that clash with our core gameplay, artifact and 4p tier set bonus. Overloading with Holy Power, cutting Wake of Ashes from our burst and rotation, punishing us for dumping Holy Power before Crusade with Judgment up on the targets etc.
Having it stack faster/higher would not solve anything about it.

It was an interesting concept that Blizzard will hopefully improve later, but the 7.1 incarnation of Crusade would be inferior to not having a level 100 talent in most PvE encounters and seriously overpowered in PvP with the right set of talents.

But thats exactly why i liked the overhaul of Crusade, talents SHOULD change the way we play, they should change the priorisation of spells and HP. Currently we are absolutely lacking of talents which do just that!
The only 2 talents which actually change ur rotation are both borderline awful, ES and Cons. And currently both of them dont even get some attention on the PTR.

I really wish we had more talents to actually spice up ur rotation, instead of just giving more DMG or slightly more HP generation.
If i look at my enhance or windwalker talent trees, almost every talent tier has an option to change how u play the spec. Retribution has nothing alike, and now the iteration of crusade, which would have added at least one, is gone too. FeelsBadMan

[Deleted]

. Retribution has nothing alike, and now the iteration of crusade, which would have added at least one, is gone too. FeelsBadMan

I understand your point. No one here disagrees. But the new design was poor. You shouldn't redisign sth. that is actually fine and replace it with a bad designed mechanic, just because it "changes things".
You already mentioned 2 possible points for altering the rotation. Both Cons and ES need a change. Crusade doesn't.
One would also argue that you should move Holy Wrath to the PvP tree and add sth. interesting here. Sth. that is an alternative to Crusade and is fun. Maybe Holy Avenger with some mechanic like the Crusade iteration on the PTR that also replaces Wings.
That would add a real alternative and give you rotation changing options without removing something that is fine.

[Doombringer]

Talents should change the way we play... and I think the existing Crusade does just that. So, we're good. No changes there, none needed.

However the machine-gun Judgment harkens back to the old Hammer of Wrath spam during Avenging Wrath, which some players found to be fun. Or, at least it was different. We need more talent choices that change things up.

I really think that is one thing that has plagued the redesign of Ret... it's an unwillingness to let go of some things, or to try new things. The devs kept Execution Sentence around and didn't really change it (other than that it requires HP). Avenging Wrath didn't change. Judgment changed, OK, fine. Crusader Strike at least has Zeal as an alternative. Templar's Verdict isn't any different and neither is Divine Storm. They took away Exorcism and have apparently been afraid to give us a good/fun gap closer, so Divine Steed is more or less "meh." Divine Purpose is old hat by now, but it works well enough. Consecrate for Ret feels strange and a weak inclusion.

I'd love to see some bolder decisions being made... like a Divine Storm proc that then enables your next Judgment hammer to careen about and hit every target you just nailed with Divine Storm. Something that is visually and audibly cool, functionally fun and interesting, something that other classes aren't exactly already doing. Ret needs more things that make players say "wow, that was cool."

[Morally Grey Storm]

If you want your talents to change the way you play, pick Consecration.
Don't come crawling back crying afterwards.

[Bormec]

I get to vendor all the Mastery gear I've been hoarding now.