Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Deleted]

whooooooooooooooooosh

That's his post going over your head.


You don't throw resources at something for what at best would generate 1% of the companies revenue. If they were to do a legacy server it would be under the pretense they are going to end up losing money because of it and are simply doing it for the fans and will adjust their model so they are generating extra revenue from another source to make up for the loss.


btw 1M new subscribers for legacy is largely aggressive stance and "at best" thinking. I would lean more toward maybe 100-200k new subs and the rest from people already subbed.

you're joking right, 1mill subs is the bare minimum blizz would get with legacy server.

also do you really think that legacy servers cost that much money to create?

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Its OK if you don't understand how business and money works. But don't call things retarded when its laughably obvious you have no clue how a business operates at a international, multi billion dollar level. Sadly you didn't/can't even grasp what I was saying in my post, and its blatantly obvious by your reply.

If you think Blizzard will put in ANY effort, to gross 100 million a year, when ALL of their IPs are doing 100x that. I'm not sure what to tell you. Its kind of funny to be honest.

I understand perfectly what you said.

you said " Blizzard will not make legacy servers because the market for it is not big enough, therefore any income that legacy servers might wield is not worth the time because all their games are target at a huge crowd with expectation of much higher income"

But that does not matter because the point of the company is to generate revenue, and right now in the wow franchise the best way to generate revenue is legacy servers, if you believe that only 1 mill players will come back you're wrong, with blizzard backing the legacy project millions of players would come back .

[Worgoblin]

Or they spent this time working out a scheme where they wouldn't be afraid of being sued (like putting servers into a country that doesn't care about laws like that).

Not saying they did, I have no info, but I think this is entirely possible.

There are ways around the legal bullying, and I'm sure Nostalrius is aware of it. They probably consulted with a lawyer and devised a plan. I expect Nostalrius to relaunch, and it's going to be glorious.

[Deleted]

Or they spent this time working out a scheme where they wouldn't be afraid of being sued (like putting servers into a country that doesn't care about laws like that).

Not saying they did, I have no info, but I think this is entirely possible.

They can still sue them in France you know. And placing the servers in such a country (Russia is reachable mind you) would make the game unplayable for US and EU players.

[rda]

They can still sue them in France you know. And placing the servers in such a country (Russia is reachable mind you) would make the game unplayable for US and EU players.

Not sure what you mean by Russia being reachable (law-wise? forget it) and if they were to place servers there, the game would certainly be playable from anywhere. There are other places, too. Ask PirateBay.

[Deficineiron]

That's how I see it. It's not a threat at all. It's not even directed at Blizz. It's telling the Vanilla community that if Blizz doesn't make official legacy realms, Nostalrius is coming back.

I think the sense of 'threat' is an issue with the author of the piece being ESL (english second language) and not catching the subtle context issue there. You will see this sort of thing in ESL written english where even a well-educated writer will not be aware of certain context-sensitive meanings. I am not even sure the 'threat' sense is perceived the same throughout the english-speaking world equally.

As others have noted, it boggles the mind that they would intentionally make a 'threatening statement' towards blizzard.

[Sturmbringe]

They can still sue them in France you know. And placing the servers in such a country (Russia is reachable mind you) would make the game unplayable for US and EU players.

Where did you get that from?

There is a Russian Vanilla server online for TWELVE FREAKING YEARS. It is called Project V[edited out to conform with board regs]. People from the EU can play on that server. In addition, there are dozens of Russian WoW servers online in Russia running different versions of the game. EU citizens can play on those server too, and plenty of Slav Eastern Europeans who are also fluent in Russian, do.

The mere fact that there are Russian private WoW servers running for over a decade, means that blizzard cannot do jack to get them.

My condolences.

[Deleted]

Not sure what you mean by Russia being reachable (law-wise? forget it) and if they were to place servers there, the game would certainly be playable from anywhere. There are other places, too. Ask PirateBay.

It is reachable law wise. It's just that firms don't usually pay attention (and the latency is a real issue... it will not be playable in the US, and much of Europe.)

PirateBay is much larger than Nostalrius, and its creators have been fined beyond oblivion. I get that you want to be optimistic, but this will 100% not work. You can just wait and see.

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Where did you get that from?

There is a Russian Vanilla server online for TWELVE FREAKING YEARS. It is called Project V[edited out to conform with board regs]. People from the EU can play on that server. In addition, there are dozens of Russian WoW servers online in Russia running different versions of the game. EU citizens can play on those server too, and plenty of Slav Eastern Europeans who are also fluent in Russian, do.

The mere fact that there are Russian private WoW servers running for over a decade, means that blizzard cannot do jack to get them.

My condolences.

There are hundreds if not thousands of private servers. Blizzard doesn't care because they are very small in size. Nostalrius got big, and will be cracked down even in Russia if Blizzard gets pissed.

In any case, as I said, they can sue them in France too.

[Vash The Stampede]

Threatening blizzard is going to go over really well. Especially at blizzcon. It may be worth buying a virtual ticket just for that. I hope they sell popcorn.

"If you don't do what I demand, im gonna do somthing illegal again."

I think people here over estimate the power someone like Blizzard has over this situation. If Nostalrius wants to, they can do a few things to get around Blizzards reach.

For one, they can just open up the server and give Blizzard the finger. What's Blizzard going to do, send their ravenous army of lawyers after a server at an unknown location? For Wozniak's sake, they can't even shut down the Pirate Bay, which has everyone including Blizzard on their shit list. What chance does Blizzard have?

Another thing they can do is put the server in a country that doesn't give a shit about US laws. Someplace like Russia for example. Sure the latency will be high for us Murican's, but a small price to pay for a running server. China is also another good location. It seems the expression of copyright infringement doesn't translate very well into Mandarin.

The third option is to fight Blizzard in court. As far as I'm concerned there's no concrete proof that Nostalrius has actually broken copyright. I have yet to be given a specific example of their work breaking this. If people donate a huge sum of money and go to court in Europe, there's a good chance the courts would be in favor of Nostalrius as Europe is more pro consumer than America. Think about it, you bought a game that you can no longer play anymore. You can't play Vanilla WoW anymore, as well as TBC, WOTLK, and etc. If Blizzard refuses to offer this service for their game, then Nostalrius maybe within their right to continue to operate. What Blizzard is doing is very anti-consumer and European courts love to favor pro consumer ideals. Nostalrius has nearly 300,000 signatures for Blizzard to make a Vanilla server, and if they don't want to listen then what rights do they have against a private server?

[rda]

It is reachable law wise. It's just that firms don't usually pay attention (and the latency is a real issue... it will not be playable in the US, and much of Europe.)

PirateBay is much larger than Nostalrius, and its creators have been fined beyond oblivion. I get that you want to be optimistic, but this will 100% not work. You can just wait and see.

The creators of PirateBay have been fined exactly because PirateBay is infinitely more popular than Nostalrius can ever become. And even with that much more pressure they continue to find ways to live. Nostalrius wouldn't have to do even a fraction of what PirateBay did.

Russia is not reachable law-wise. It is not. If you think it is, link me someone successfully doing that. Aside from cases where a Russian thug basically sues himself in Russia from outside of Russia in order to launder his money in some way, there is nothing.

I am not saying Nostalrius will open, I don't know that, but if they were to open, they could do so in Russia without any punishment.

[Sturmbringe]

There are hundreds if not thousands of private servers. Blizzard doesn't care because they are very small in size. Nostalrius got big, and will be cracked down even in Russia if Blizzard gets pissed.

You don't have a clue.

There are private servers running WOTLK in Russia that are just as big as Nostalrius. In addition, you have to pay a monthly fee to NOT GET STUCK IN THE QUEUE. The queue to log in those servers runs in the thousands.



Since you appear to be sure that Blizzard can shut them down, I challenge you -and Blizzard- to shut them down, if you can.

Remember, these guys get even MONTHLY SUBSCRIPTIONS from some of their players whereas Nostalrius didn't.

So yeah, go get your lawyers from Blizzard and shut them down. Oh no wait, you can't, this is Russia.

[Deleted]

You don't have a clue.

There are private servers running WOTLK in Russia that are just as big as Nostalrius. In addition, you have to pay a monthly fee to NOT GET STUCK IN THE QUEUE. The queue to log in those servers runs in the thousands.



Since you appear to be sure that Blizzard can shut them down, I challenge you -and Blizzard- to shut them down, if you can.

Remember, these guys get even MONTHLY SUBSCRIPTIONS from some of their players whereas Nostalrius didn't.

So yeah, go get your lawyers from Blizzard and shut them down. Oh no wait, you can't, this is Russia.

Can you stop acting like a little kid?

Firstly, Kronos is massively popular too - Blizzard doesn't give crap about it. The logic that 'one doesn't get sued, no one can get sued' is so immature I won't even touch on it.

Referring to me and Blizzard in the second person (as a single entity) is plain stupid. I don't give one damn about what happens to Nost - if you think 10 hippies can stand against a billion dollar company and survive you're delusional.

So yeah, feel free to stargaze all you want. We'll see how that will go.

The creators of PirateBay have been fined exactly because PirateBay is infinitely more popular than Nostalrius can ever become. And even with that much more pressure they continue to find ways to live. Nostalrius wouldn't have to do even a fraction of what PirateBay did.

Russia is not reachable law-wise. It is not. If you think it is, link me someone successfully doing that. Aside from cases where a Russian thug basically sues himself in Russia from outside of Russia in order to launder his money in some way, there is nothing.

I am not saying Nostalrius will open, I don't know that, but if they were to open, they could do so in Russia without any punishment.

You're taking a very wrong perspective of the law. The 'basic' legal penalties (i.e. being sued successfully) do not depend on how popular/damaging something is - they depend entirely on the specific law. The fines later on will depend the size, but given how PB runs into the millions, it would be foolish to think that Nostalrius can handle even a fraction of that.

Do you actually have any knowledge on the matter? Firstly, Blizzard can sue Nost in the US - the original files were created in the US, and are exported to Russia. A US court filing can therefore be made. Russia, whilst of course more difficult to get in to, still abides to international copyright conventions. Here's one past example -https://torrentfreak.com/russian-facebook-ordered-to-crack-down-on-piracy-150929/

Even if Nost went to all that trouble to open a server in Russia, they could not just be sued in both France AND the US, but also Russia. Nostalrius would need complicated legal advice to even defend itself, and where it will find the money is a question no one can answer.

So, get your hopes up all you want - there's just a difference between being realistic and being over-optimistic.

[rda]

By the way, SexyManipulator:

There are private servers running WOTLK in Russia that are just as big as Nostalrius.

...this is true, too.

Nostalrius had several thousand people online typically, its launch was about 6k online. Well, I just checked the online of a few servers in Russia and they report 3-5-7k depending on the server, with peaks hitting 9k. You can decide they are lying, but...

[Deficineiron]

observations

the donation issue with nost appears to have been the legal tripwire, in a jurisdiction blizzard had practical recourse. afaik K==== hasn't done this yet, and presumably won't given the doom placed on Nost when they did.

where is that server with a volcanic-theme name located, btw? I seem to recall it was in W. Europe? If so, why is it still around after all these years?

the russian server issue with servers taking money is being ignored by some. Obviously blizzard recourse there may not be the same as france.

[rda]

Here's one past example -https://torrentfreak.com/russian-facebook-ordered-to-crack-down-on-piracy-150929/

It's the case of suing a Russian company that went international. And the verdict was "please take that down" with no damages paid (even worse if we go into details: "please implement some filtering service so that people can't upload copyrighted files that easily").

Even if Nost went to all that trouble to open a server in Russia, they could not just be sued in both France AND the US, but also Russia.

I am saying this would get nowhere.

[Deleted]

It's the case of suing a Russian company that went international.

That's irrelevant - a copyright claim has been made, for material which is US/EU owned.

[rda]

That's irrelevant - a copyright claim has been made, for material which is US/EU owned.

It's the most relevant thing for this case, if the company had no international business they'd just refuse everything and the records would have gotten nothing from the court at all. The only reason there was some decision from the court is that the company itself was interested in settling the matter more or less peacefully - and the bulk of the settling was outside of court (read your own link, it's there, too: "Sony Music was originally involved in the action against VKontakte but dropped out after agreeing a confidential settlement last summer.").

Yes, I kind of know what I am talking about. If you want to get something from a Russian court, law is the last thing you are going to use.

PS: LOL, it took me two minutes to find the continuation of the case with VK and the labels - the labels were dissatisfied with no damages and continued, and already lost (like they were losing before the decision that you linked) - source for example episode in Russian: http://www.bbc.com/russian/news/2016...l_music_russia

[Deleted]

It's the most relevant thing for this case, if the company had no international business they'd just refuse everything and the records would have gotten nothing from the court at all. The only reason there was some decision from the court is that the company itself was interested in settling the matter more or less peacefully - and the bulk of the settling was outside of court (read your own link, it's there, too: "Sony Music was originally involved in the action against VKontakte but dropped out after agreeing a confidential settlement last summer.").

Yes, I kind of know what I am talking about. If you want to get something from a Russian court, law is the last thing you are going to use.

PS: LOL, it took me two minutes to find the continuation of the case with VK and the labels - the labels were dissatisfied with no damages and continued, and already lost (like they were losing before the decision that you linked) - source for one episode in Russian: https://vk.com/wall-105294953_446

You base that, where? Because all you're giving me is 'I think that would happen and that would happen'.

So much crap man. Seriously. Every single court in the world, from the most corrupt to the best, is 100% law-based. The only reason courts exist are to further the law of the state. Bilateral agreements are immaterial to that fact - that applies to the US too; if a company sues but later agrees to a settlement, that settlement takes places. It's not a Russia 'thing' - so yes, I will insist that you don't really know what you're talking about.

PS: The two cases are different.

[Deficineiron]

It's the most relevant thing for this case, if the company had no international business they'd just refuse everything and the records would have gotten nothing from the court at all. The only reason there was some decision from the court is that the company itself was interested in settling the matter more or less peacefully - and the bulk of the settling was outside of court (read your own link, it's there, too: "Sony Music was originally involved in the action against VKontakte but dropped out after agreeing a confidential settlement last summer.").

Yes, I kind of know what I am talking about. If you want to get something from a Russian court, law is the last thing you are going to use.

PS: LOL, it took me two minutes to find the continuation of the case with VK and the labels - the labels were dissatisfied with no damages and continued, and already lost (like they were losing before the decision that you linked) - source for example episode in Russian: http://www.bbc.com/russian/news/2016...l_music_russia

shouldn't we just accept that they made a claim, and ignore everything that happened l Later and the circumstances of the claim, disposition of the case, etc.? It makes a better narrative for the thread. Or as the saying goes 'Let's not bicker and argue over who killed who.'

[rda]

You base that, where? Because all you're giving me is 'I think that would happen and that would happen'.

So much crap man. Seriously. Every single court in the world, from the most corrupt to the best, is 100% law-based. The only reason courts exist are to further the law of the state. Bilateral agreements are immaterial to that fact - that applies to the US too; if a company sues but later agrees to a settlement, that settlement takes places. It's not a Russia 'thing' - so yes, I will insist that you don't really know what you're talking about.

PS: The two cases are different.

Come to Russia and see for yourself that Russian courts are different (in practice, not in theory, in theory they obviously are protecting the law bla bla bla whatever).

The case I linked is a continuation of the case you linked.

[Pann]

Just go to Nostalrius homepage man

I see nothing about Nostalruis re-opening there.