Consensus on specs? Oct 19

[The7]

Sub would win for the complete immunity to fall damage alone. Really, it's crazy useful (for world content, that is).
And honestly, I don't know how can anybody find fun in Outlaw, let alone after the nerfs.

[Nikkaszal]

Sub would win for the complete immunity to fall damage alone. Really, it's crazy useful (for world content, that is).
And honestly, I don't know how can anybody find fun in Outlaw, let alone after the nerfs.

Outlaw has Grappling Hook. Fall damage immunity plus all the rest.

[pies1]

Biggest problem with sub is shadowstrike, while a boon in pvp it's primarily a risk factor in pve. You are forced to either risk suicide to ground effects or deal no dps.

Outlaw looks best in that regard with extended meele range allowing to savely dps mobs standing surrounded by fire which allows it to even pull ahead of assa given such a situation.

Assuming you're not busy rerolling anyway

[Maelstrom51]

Biggest problem with sub is shadowstrike, while a boon in pvp it's primarily a risk factor in pve. You are forced to either risk suicide to ground effects or deal no dps.

????

Shadowstrike only teleports you if you're out of melee range.

[Deleted]

I played outlaw til i got sick of rolling only true bearing over and over. Record was 6 times in a row. /quit outlaw after that. =D

Inb4 people telling you True Bearing is actually the best buff ever and you should never reroll it ever although all evidence points to the contrary

Unless you're fire mage

Fire gets the hammer in 7.1

[pies1]

Inb4 people telling you True Bearing is actually the best buff ever and you should never reroll it ever although all evidence points to the contrary



Fire gets the hammer in 7.1

Im not sure id call a 6% nerf to pyro and a buff to flame strike "the hammer". Arcane got "the hammer" for no apparent reason.

[Deleted]

Im not sure id call a 6% nerf to pyro and a buff to flame strike "the hammer". Arcane got "the hammer" for no apparent reason.

Pyro is pretty integral to the fire kit, its ~50% of your Damage

A nerf of lesser caliber basically removed outlaw from the game

[Maelstrom51]

Pyro is pretty integral to the fire kit, its ~50% of your Damage

A nerf of lesser caliber basically removed outlaw from the game

Apples to oranges.

Outlaw nerf was larger (12% nerf to 45% of our damage with perfect relics + higher energy cost), Outlaw wasn't the second best spec in the game, Outlaw scales much worse, and Outlaw didn't receive compensatory AoE buffs despite having worse AoE than a Fire mage.

The fire nerfs are nothing compared to the Outlaw nerfs.

[Deleted]

Inb4 people telling you True Bearing is actually the best buff ever and you should never reroll it ever although all evidence points to the contrary



Fire gets the hammer in 7.1

Paired with any big cd, it is indeed best. But if just spent all your cds, rolling true bearing is as shitty as others.

[Chemii]

I've said this since the start and been flamed for it but Assassination all the way.

Sub will likely overtake it with the artifact powered up fully (the AoE/Cleave is actually insane in M+) but for now it's Assassination in most situations pulling ahead due to its consistency, evident by the fact when I started I was up against 500 parses, which is now closer to 10K.

Outlaw is shit and always will be until they address the problems with RtB, glad I ditched it when I did. I still play it for the odd heroic/lower M+ dungeon but feel like Sub is actually better for those quick bursty runs.

[Euq]

I know that Outlaw is subpar compared to both Subtley and Assasination, but I fucking love this specc.
If I would've played in a minmax guild I would have gone Assasination, but my guild only raid 3 hours per week and we just cleared heroic.
I manage close to or just above 300k on singletarget fights which is just fine for our progression tempo.

[Deleted]

????

Shadowstrike only teleports you if you're out of melee range.

If you can just hug the taget np but if you are at the edge of meele range due to ground effects and the tank moves target or it moves for some other reason you're constantly dancing between in range / out of range. Soulmaw second boss for example

[DeadDream]

I love sub, it's pretty fun to play, but i'm a bit upset with the rng factor of it. Yes, rng. I hate outlaw for RtB rng, and now i start hating energetic stabbing rng as well. If you are doing 4 SS + finisher in 1 SD, you're doing good dps. If you dont - well, you're screwed.

Also, don't trust simcraft blindly. It has something wrong with profiles for sub - as a result, simulations show much higher numbers that can really be pulled. I opened warcraftlogs, got all top sub rogues on mythic Ursok, simmed them and compared to logs. Simcraft shows like 40-70k dps more, than real fights.

And shadowcraft shows like 30-40k dps more than simulationcraft =D

[T18Z]

I love sub, it's pretty fun to play, but i'm a bit upset with the rng factor of it. Yes, rng. I hate outlaw for RtB rng, and now i start hating energetic stabbing rng as well. If you are doing 4 SS + finisher in 1 SD, you're doing good dps. If you dont - well, you're screwed.

Also, don't trust simcraft blindly. It has something wrong with profiles for sub - as a result, simulations show much higher numbers that can really be pulled. I opened warcraftlogs, got all top sub rogues on mythic Ursok, simmed them and compared to logs. Simcraft shows like 40-70k dps more, than real fights.

And shadowcraft shows like 30-40k dps more than simulationcraft =D

Yeah, there definetly appears to be something up with the Sub profile. I'm simmed at around 445k (got boots, don't hate pls) but in reality I know that on average there is no way I'm going to be pulling that number, even with luck on my side and a solid grasp of the rotation I'd struggle to hit close to that. I went and checked AMR instead and it appeared to show a more realistic number of around 405-410k, which is about right IMO. Furthermore I believe Stjern mentioned something along the lines of Sub sims not matching reality.

I also can't stand shadowy techniques or energetic stabbing (probably for different reasons than most). I much prefered being able to rely on a steady flow of CP from honor among thieves and a consistent energy gain from SnD than this crap.

[DeadDream]

Yeah, there definetly appears to be something up with the Sub profile. I'm simmed at around 445k (got boots, don't hate pls) but in reality I know that on average there is no way I'm going to be pulling that number, even with luck on my side and a solid grasp of the rotation I'd struggle to hit close to that. I went and checked AMR instead and it appeared to show a more realistic number of around 405-410k, which is about right IMO. Furthermore I believe Stjern mentioned something along the lines of Sub sims not matching reality.

I also can't stand shadowy techniques or energetic stabbing (probably for different reasons than most). I much prefered being able to rely on a steady flow of CP from honor among thieves and a consistent energy gain from SnD than this crap.

Great to know that I'm not the only person that discovered wrong DPS simulations of the simcraft. And regarding that, there's one more question. Since DPS is calculated incorrectly, can we trust EP values that simcraft provides?

[ymirsson]

What fight style did you choose in simcraft? Because Patchwerk is standard but obviously not applicable.

[DeadDream]

What fight style did you choose in simcraft? Because Patchwerk is standard but obviously not applicable.

I choosed both Patchwerk and LightMovement. And i believe they are totally applicable, even more, since there are periodically 2 targets, sub rogue will utilize Shuriken Storm to be able to squize more finishers than regulary. That should result in slightly better dps than on full Patchwerk-fight.

[ymirsson]

I choosed both Patchwerk and LightMovement. And i believe they are totally applicable, even more, since there are periodically 2 targets, sub rogue will utilize Shuriken Storm to be able to squize more finishers than regulary. That should result in slightly better dps than on full Patchwerk-fight.

Didn't you just said that your sims showed more damage then the logs from top players?

[DeadDream]

Didn't you just said that your sims showed more damage then the logs from top players?

Exactly. Alot more. Simulations aren't correct at all. Read it that way:
Real players on a single target boss (+ ~5m damage on top of that) do 40-70k DPS less than strictly single target simulations.

[ymirsson]

Isn't that then the explanation why your sims show more DPS then the logs?