Classic World of Warcraft Discussion [Megathread]

[Kyanion]

Problem is as well the super hardcore ones just go around insulting retailers. And it has been seen in the past few pages. Thought that shit had stopped early on in the thread..

That is true, I mean the pro-Retail side isn't clean in all of this either but I stay within the rules of the site. I am quite rude/snide/snarky to people that go crazy with BS claims but holy hell this thread was an infraction laced disaster in the first 100 pages or so.

[Eleccybubb]

That is true, I mean the pro-Retail side isn't clean in all of this either but I stay within the rules of the site. I am quite rude/snide/snarky to people that go crazy with BS claims but holy hell this thread was an infraction laced disaster in the first 100 pages or so.

Tbh like I've said both sides are as bad as each other but it calmed down then people started it back up. Like fucking why?

[Gadzooks]

well that is good if you are connecting to blizzard servers isn't it? Do you happen to know if nost and other private servers also keep this data in case blizzard wants it?

No clue. Neither party has discussed it, in any way. I don't think player's identities are an issue in this, and if you're worried because you played on there, I wouldn't really waste too much time worrying they're going to sue you.

[Kyanion]

Tbh like I've said both sides are as bad as each other but it calmed down then people started it back up. Like fucking why?

Maybe frustration at the lack of attention from Blizzard after the Nost/Kern meetings really produced nothing. I think they can see the writing on the wall that Blizzcon likely isn't going to go their way and tried to stir up as much shit and attention as possible before Blizzcon happens to maybe get the answer they want. This thread is dead as hell the day after Blizzcon if they deny the servers or just don't address them.

[Gadzooks]

Maybe frustration at the lack of attention from Blizzard after the Nost/Kern meetings really produced nothing. I think they can see the writing on the wall that Blizzcon likely isn't going to go their way and tried to stir up as much shit and attention as possible before Blizzcon happens to maybe get the answer they want. This thread is dead as hell the day after Blizzcon if they deny the servers or just don't address them.

Which is how it should have been from the beginning. It was facinating to watch themselves delude themselves and get fired up over pure speculation and fantasy. It's groupthink at it's worst. The first month of this thread was a psychologist's wet dream in dysfunctional people and denial/self delusion.

It's not entirely outside the realms of possibility it could happen, some day. Any reasonable person would agree. The signs point to "not any time soon". But who knows? I don't have an issue there. I just correct the more bizarre flights of fantasy when it comes to copyright. If Blizzard announces them at Blizzcon, great - let's see how it plays out. I won't be "cutting my wrists" if they do, like some of the more creepy and obnxious Legacy true believers say, though - and I don't think anyone else will be, either. Nobody has really taken a hard stance on them not existing, ever. Most of the bickering in here is in obscure minutia or over the "legacy vs. live game" debate, which is anectdotal and serves no purpose other than vanity. Sure, a lot of accusations have been flung around about us "haters", and this mythology invented right here in this thread that we only comment because we "hate" legacy servers, those who want to play on them, and only want to stamp it out. Which is cute as all hell, but hardly factual or reasonable. But, it's immature people snarling in rage at being denied, so I guess it's to be expected.

[Ielenia]

well that is good if you are connecting to blizzard servers isn't it? Do you happen to know if nost and other private servers also keep this data in case blizzard wants it?

Irrelevant, because Blizzard does not target the pirate servers' players with their lawsuits. They target the illegal servers and the ones running it.

[Deleted]

See, that's what I was afraid of with that example. You have no idea of how much the game changed by the addition of physics. It's as if World of Warcraft suddenly gained a third dimension and-- oh, wait. That's flying, isn't it?

By the way, I'm pretty sure World of Tanks is currently more popular globally than Starcraft 2. Likely Starcraft 1 as well. And nope, you cannot play the game without the new physics. They even added even more physics to the game, so tanks can flip over. Not a lot of people like those, but it's still the same game.

oh believe me, i have idea of how much they changed WoT
now, im not even going to try and explain to you all that WoT and WoW are two completely different games

but the changes (over the years) in WoT are like 1/1000000 of what WoW has gone through, you still have the same tank tiers, nations, same mechanics, same maps, same objectives, same consumables
tank flying? holy cow you have to be light tank going in 50km/h range and then you would get like 1-2m off the ground, what a flight!

anyway, reading this thread, i thought i would stop lurking and start posting more, but its pointless. And the amount of vanilla and private server haters is just ridiculous here

[soulzek]

1 - Tank Threat is irrelevant
2 - CC in content is irrelevant
3 - LFR/LFD Tools
4 - Class homogenization
5 - Profession value
6 - Durability of content
7 - Existence of Heirloom and related items/mechanics
8 - CRZ
9 - Multiple "dificulty" levels on raids
10 - Legendary items design and philosophy

And some more It's the same game, but it's far from being the same game.

Don't forget that modern day WoW has no leveling gameplay. You either literally instantly get max boosted or spend 2 hours doing 1-100000

[Tackhisis]

ranks of spells; different spells that no longer exist; the world pre cataclysm; No LFG, No LFR; Talent trees and hybrid talent trees; Mana management; Aggro management; class quests to learn spells; very difficult leveling experience; Discuss which debuffs to apply to the boss because there was a limit of dubuffs; class balance; no class homogenization, everyone was different and unique

Sorry, but those are trivial changes, intangible things and new additional content. "My Fireball was doing 26 damage instead of 29 before" does not make the game a different product. 10-20 spells or 100 NPCs shuffled around do not matter when there are hundreds of spells and quests and thousands of NPCs even in the classic content.

[Mahourai]

I don't really understand what you hope to accomplish by constantly telling people the game is fundamentally the same as it ever was. It's true in a very basic sense and absolutely not a worthwhile contribution to the discussions in this thread. What is the conclusion we're supposed to draw from this insight? That 7.0 should be good enough for people who want the old version?

[stomination]

False, they were having ZERO profit.
In fact they started by paying with their own money the servers. From their own pockets.

Later players said they wanted to help so the Nost team opened up a monthly donation with a limit.
Meaning as soon as donations reached the max value (to pay the server for the month) the donations stopped automatically.

You should re read my post. I said the only ppl making money was the people that owned the server who got the letter. Not the Nost team who was using the donations to pay for the server.

[VidocQ]

Nostalrius must be come back!

PS: Blizzard said: you think you do, but you dont...

[Kolvarg]

Nostalrius's developers did not spend years reverse engineering anything - that thankless job goes to the developers of the opensource core they and every other private server uses.

Not sure if that's true. Yes they did use the opensource core, but they did 4 years of development on it, and that's not *just* tuning, databases and scripts. They reworked a lot of the code, and implemented stuff like Blizzard watch anti-cheat (source: https://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3)

Also, they didn't take money for it, they took monthly donations that capped at a monthly maximum (what they needed to pay for server costs, many times putting in their own money to keep it running), or some limited time & limited cost ones to help pay for new hardware (https://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3903). The merchandise they sold also had the profits directed to the Make a Wish Foundation (https://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=44371)

Might want to know what you're talking about if you're gonna talk shit about someting/someone.

And taking someone else's work without permission is ethically unsound. It's absolutely hilarious that you're trying to claim some ethical and moral high ground over taking what doesnt belong to you.

You know, "thou shalt not steal"?

No one's claiming moral highround, simply stating that something might be technically illegal but not all that bad morally-wise.

"Taking what doesn't belong to you" is pretty broad, and morally speaking overall "stealing" is pretty unclear and subjective when it comes to virtual creations and ideas, even legally (look at the amount copycat games which are blatant copies of more popular ones on the mobile game stores, for instance). "Stealing" software doesn't deny the posession of the stolen item from the original owner. Playing an illegal copy (or hosting an illegal server) doesn't prevent the original owner from using theirs, nor does it prevent them from selling their copies. Obviously it may lead to reduced profits (people who would've bought it if it wasn't available for free), but it definetly can't be held to the same standarts as "regular theft". It isn't legally, and it shouldn't be morally either. For the "victim", you just can't compare the impact of stealing his car vs playing an illegal copy of the game he made.

In the end I suppose it comes down to priorities. Let's imagine every painting of Mona Lisa in the world burned. Is it moral to paint copies to preserve that piece of art for the future? It doesn't really belong to us though. What's more important, the survival of art, or copyright? (Before you say it, no I'm not saying it's a direct comparison, it's just a thought exercize)

Here is a good question. What would you do when Naxx comes out as the final bit of content and you finish that, level an alt or two and get the best possible gear then what? You would be stuck in an infinite content loop and resetting it all would eventually have players just stop playing. I'm sorry but as much as I and other people want this that is a pretty damn good question. If people cannot handle a one year drought without leaving how will people handle the same content over and over?

No content lasts forever, nothing new there. The thing is current WoW "uses" only a very small percentage of its content - the game has been in development for over 15 years, and yet the majority of players are "stuck" enjoying the latest 2 or so years of development only. (And yes, there are other ways of "supporting" that content without being necessarily through legacy realms, and they likely also interest me. But leveling-wise - what interests me most in legacy - it can't just be small changes to recover the same feeling, imo).

Even if nothing is done to "fix" this, it's still easily 1 to 2 years woth of content for most people, and it will be inter-twined with live (you can play both). Basicly nearly the same worth of content as an expansion for a fraction of the cost/effort.
But, easy path? Release TBC realms after Vanilla. Just with Vanilla -> WotLK you have easily 4 to 6 years worth of content (depending on how it's approached).

[Holtzmann]

oh believe me, i have idea of how much they changed WoT
now, im not even going to try and explain to you all that WoT and WoW are two completely different games

but the changes (over the years) in WoT are like 1/1000000 of what WoW has gone through, you still have the same tank tiers, nations, same mechanics, same maps, same objectives, same consumables
tank flying? holy cow you have to be light tank going in 50km/h range and then you would get like 1-2m off the ground, what a flight!

anyway, reading this thread, i thought i would stop lurking and start posting more, but its pointless. And the amount of vanilla and private server haters is just ridiculous here

You missed the point.

How big or small the changes are is irrelevant, what's relevant is that the gameplay has changed significantly. The point is that the argument of wanting to "preserve" something they consider to be "scrapped" is spurious. No one will ever argue that World of Tanks is not World of Tanks anymore because of the new physics and demand a physics-less server and client. Incremental additions to a game don't mean previous versions of the game were "scrapped", just that the game has evolved. You might disagree with how the game has evolved (and plenty of people disagreed with the physics changes in WoT, particularly Light Tank players who had to contend with the fact that their ELC AMXs weren't glued to the ground anymore), but the ultimate choice on how the game plays rests with the developers.

Also, hello. I've played on private servers and I'd like to see Legacy servers.

[Deleted]

I must say, this thing about legacy servers is the only thing keeping me excited for Blizzcon 2016.
If Blizzcon is going to be about "look a new raid next patch" it's going to be a borefest.

One thing that would need to be fixed if Vanilla servers were to exist is class balance.
Vanilla WoW had one of the worst class balance of all games. Rogues and Warriors were gods and i would hate to play such a thing (PvP-wise)

[Eleccybubb]

I must say, this thing about legacy servers is the only thing keeping me excited for Blizzcon 2016.
If Blizzcon is going to be about "look a new raid next patch" it's going to be a borefest.

One thing that would need to be fixed if Vanilla servers were to exist is class balance.
Vanilla WoW had one of the worst class balance of all games. Rogues and Warriors were gods and i would hate to play such a thing (PvP-wise)

Why? They don't even have to talk about it during Blizzcon which would further indicate a no. The focus will be on their 25 years in the games industry and Diablos 20th Anniversary over anything else.

[Sturmbringe]

One thing that would need to be fixed if Vanilla servers were to exist is class balance.
Vanilla WoW had one of the worst class balance of all games. Rogues and Warriors were gods and i would hate to play such a thing (PvP-wise)

Vanilla class balance was pretty fine actually. There was not a single spec that required a party of 5 people with tank and healer to take down such as a Ret Loladin from future expansions or a Prot-Ret Loladin from future expansions.

With respect to Rogues, they are effective when you have low quality gear but pretty balanced in upper tiers of gear.

Warriors are actually very underwhelming in PvP until they get their hands on some very good epic gear.

Not sure what you are complaining about. By far the strongest class in Vanilla PvP is the Frost Mage, and you didn't even mention those, though not by any means OP and not requiring a party of 5 to take down.

[Deleted]

Why? They don't even have to talk about it during Blizzcon which would further indicate a no. The focus will be on their 25 years in the games industry and Diablos 20th Anniversary over anything else.

Borefestcon 2016
Everyone wants badass announcements like what is the new secret project and will there be legacy servers.

[Eleccybubb]

Borefestcon 2016
Everyone wants badass announcements like what is the new secret project and will there be legacy servers.

Well the secret project is supposedly Diablo related. Why would they not want the focus on their 25 year anniversary or the 20th of a successful franchise?

[Deleted]

With respect to Rogues, they are effective when you have low quality gear but pretty balanced in upper tiers of gear.

Warriors are actually very underwhelming in PvP until they get their hands on some very good epic gear.

People don't know that Shadowpriests and Warlocks are lowkey overpowered when they have endgame gear.

Fun when the T3 warlock tank in AV has the most damage, kills and almost no deaths. :P