Why do casuals need gear?

[Zyky]

are you seriously asking why the majority of the playerbase needs gear?

you want the majority to have nothing to do?
its a form of progression, it gives you stuff to do in game, for most its fun.

There are things to do. They just choose not to take part in them or put in the effort to do them. The guy he's specifically talking about doesn't want to do Dungeons or Raids, then shut up and get over it. That's how you progress your character further. This is an MMO, if you want to play solo it isn't the right game for you.

But lets talk about Casual Joe the LFR raider, he's not entitled to mythic level gear from only doing LFR, sure he pays the same sub I do, but I put in far more effort to earn the gear and the item level difference.

[Snuffleupagus]

My early'er point is proven again by ur post so thanks. Also not once have I bitched about gearing in Legion. The only part of it I don't like is how RNG heavy everything is. But I am ok with it other then that.

Your whinefests are the stuff of legend, don't use the fact that no one is going to trawl through almost 22,000 posts of unemployed entitlement to lie.

Also, learn to use spell check. Since you declined to answer whether or not English is your first language (and if it wasn't, my views on you would have been altered), I have to assume that you are truly that bad at reading comprehension and spelling. Typos are one thing, but not knowing how to spell "earlier" does some serious damage to your credibility. This is not an attack, by the way, but rather a reminder that people judge your opinions partially on their perception of you as a person.

INFRACTION

[melodramocracy]

Not really a dream but then again casuals will always play, the ones who raid are the minority, according to the MMOc armory stat thing they did a while ago in which they scanned like 7+ million characters less than 1% of players saw the last boss during Siege of Org on the hardest difficulty, 70+% across the board saw all the bosses (little less on the last boss) in LFR, flex was maybe half+/- that of LFR and normal was less then flex (maybe flip those 2, cant recall), Blizzard has stated a ridiculous amount of times that the majority of the player base doesn't give a rats ass about raiding (see the sub drop in WoD for a glimpse)


You want the best gear? then raid
You want better tier gear then casuals? then raid, then when the time comes go whine on the bnet forums about how casuals get the same tier gear as you with less stats from LFR
If you want a cunt hairs chance at getting some random piece of gear that is maybe on par (in terms of Ilvl) as the random gear you get in raids then do anything else in the game

Well, over 1/4 million players have killed Nythendra on heroic as of right now. I'm not sure of the stats on normal, but you can be certain that it's far far higher than that.

While it's true that raiders are a minority, they also always have been, and raids being a hurdle to better gear has never been an issue in terms of sub numbers (if it were, you can be sure that it would have been addressed by now).

[Hctaz]

Ok correction. They pay and the same right to loot as you do. Better? I think you know what I meant and the fact that you chose to point it out proves more about you then me.

No not better lol. You don't have the same right to the same loot as people who work their ass off to complete the hardest content. If you can't compete like that then you don't need that gear anyway. Mythic raiders don't give a shit about world content. It's boring to us and, unfortunately, is necessary. Having higher gear and killing shit significantly faster is fine for us since we don't focus on this content. We need this gear because bosses are tuned around it. If we walked into mythic raids with 840 gear we'd be having a much harder time than if we went in with 870 gear. That content is tuned around a higher item level. World quests are not. The gear is NOT needed and shouldn't just randomly roll to absurd levels.


The most important argument, though, is that this forces high level mythic raiders to grind and grind and grind for that perfect titanforged Mythic dungeon trinket that has to roll to insane levels since it's BiS and they're expected to perform to an optimal level but doesn't honestly offer much for the casuals. I don't know any casual players who will stick around for the gear treadmill. I don't know anybody who will get to an item level of 850+ and then continue to feel like mythic dungeons are fun. Nobody will feel good about completing that world quest that drops an item level 835 cloak when you're sitting with your titanforged 860. The only people who care about that world quest are the mythic raiders. The only people who care about farming dungeons for that chance at a random piece of 895 gear are mythic raiders.


Let me drop a scary knowledge bomb on you: This whole system, believe it or not, is not aimed at the casual players like they would have you believe. It's aimed at the mythic raiders who clear the tier in less than a week, get BiS in less than a month, and then cancel their subscription for the next 5 months while the new raid comes out. Nobody else will care about getting that 895 Momento of Angerboda. We will and I will continue to run Mythic Maw of souls as much as possible in order to get it.

[Osmeric]

See the above reply.
You don't need shit if you don't do shit. 8pc order hall gear is quite fine for all queued content.

You seem to be intent on missing the point.

Yes, if you don't do shit, you don't need anything. But Blizzard NEEDS even the casuals to need something, otherwise they stop playing.

[Jaylock]

You seem to be intent on missing the point.

Yes, if you don't do shit, you don't need anything. But Blizzard NEEDS even the casuals to need something, otherwise they stop playing.

Why do casuals whine about RNG when in fact the RNG works to their advantage?

If these particular casuals don't want to participate in more challenging content that rewards higher base ilvl gear, then doesn't the chance that an item can potentially roll several ilvls higher (even from wqs) serve to benefit casuals more than any time in the games history?

Serious question btw.

[Osmeric]

Why do casuals whine about RNG when in fact the RNG works to their advantage?

That doesn't have much to do with the point I was making.

[ryan1mcq]

I got triggered when I read the latest Q&A and this guy is asking blizz why he can't get higher than 850 without going into dungeons? He goes on to say that they need a "casual in their office telling them every day that he has nothing to do". If you don't want to do instanced PvE or PvP YOU DON'T NEED GEAR! If you are really that "casual" why do you need a HARDCORE ILVL!?!? go farm mounts or pets or xmogs or does that require an 880 ilvl? If you don't want to play WoW than don't play WoW don't whine and complain that it isn't Hello Kitty Island Adventure. I work AND go to school full time and I'm 855 ilvl and ready for karazan tomorrow. I'm a casual by my own definition and I never feel entitled to gear.


TLR Want gear? Get good. You don't deserve anything from WQ.

[anaxie]

Part of the problem is that 4 raid difficulties inflates it so most rewards feel crappy. Proposed changes:

1. Mythic raids have no gear. They scale ilvl and award mounts and pets and achieves and xmog.
2. Non raid raid content awards what would.in the case be called normal ilvl. So if heroic is 580 lets say normal would be 16 lvls beneath it and youd be able to get that gear in normal raids or in content outside of raiding.
3. Tier pieces, weapons, trinkets from inside the raid are offered on a vendor to be purchased with currency acquired from raid and non raid activities. Raiders will still of course gear faster and have better opportunities at that gear but they wont have a monopoly on it.


These changes would provide non raiders with a deterministic path to progrews at end game and also help offset raid rng while shrinking the gap so to speak and still give raiders an advantage. Mythic players would have EXCKUSIVE rewards as well.

At this point I just throw my support behind this. Because this is way better then this RNG clusterfuck stacked Diablo game they have turned Warcraft into.

Fuck titanforge, Fuck random sockets, fuck Legendaries, fuck coins, fuck caches, fuck random stats, and mother fuck Jay Wilson.

[Deleted]

there i that thing called mythic+ it's made for getting gear without having to spend hours into the game if you are somewhat decent...

then there's this little system with coinflips on double/tripple/283862x war/titanforged reward system (maybe 895 out of anormal mythic) and then you also have the once in a fullmoon lass hall quest for EN... I think casuals are rather fine.

I somewhat agree with you that "casual" don't need 880# gear. They still want it tho. This is how it should be by design. People should feel the need to strive for harder challenges. This is exactly what made TBC such a great expansion. When you got your hands on a T6 set then you were something special.
People want to feel powerful an that's why people log in every single day to dungeons/raid/m+/do WQs. (otherwise they would be done once they killed xavius)

Remeber what happened when they started gicing handouts to everyone else? People quit.(nothing to aim for)
The current system seems kinda balanced for both (casual and enthusiastic)

[Jaylock]

That doesn't have much to do with the point I was making.

My original quote was more directed at @Jtbrig7390

To your point, hasn't blizzard made gear more accessible to casual players than ever before though? Casual players have been asking for smaller group content for years, and when Blizzard finally delivers on that, the casuals whine that they can't solo for gear as good as gear designed for groups of players. Blizz just can't win with the casuals without undermining the core gameplay of the game (raids and dungeons).

[Deleted]

What I don't understand is this argument with character progression and making your character feel stronger. If you then don't neither PvE or PvP, how do you even feel stronger? You're not fighting anything? Farming your mounts takes 5 minutes faster? Either way you were still oneshotting the bosses regardless of 20 itemlevels lower or higher? Pet battling? Your gear matters there?

Someone explain?

[Aori]

Why does anyone need gear?

[clevin]

What I don't understand is this argument with character progression and making your character feel stronger. If you then don't neither PvE or PvP, how do you even feel stronger? You're not fighting anything? Farming your mounts takes 5 minutes faster? Either way you were still oneshotting the bosses regardless of 20 itemlevels lower or higher? Pet battling? Your gear matters there?

Someone explain?

I think there are two aspects to needing gear. One is obvious - the higher level content requires more character power. The second is more about psychology than real need. For example, my lock is 847. He has no issue in the open world doing WQs, etc. Sure it's nice to kill even faster, but really, it's not a big actual benefit for me to move from 847 to 857. The benefit is pure psychology - it feels rewarding to get better gear for playing.

Where I fall out on this is this - if a player chooses to limit themselves to only some activities there's going to be a stopping point in gear. This is true of solo players, but it's also true of someone who, say, raids only normals and doesn't do mythic+ 5 mans. They're limiting themselves to a certain set of possible drops. Aside from the chance of a TF piece, they won't ever get mythic level raid gear. That's fine... it's their choice.

The only way this isn't going to be true is if we all get a full set of mythic raid gear each patch. Of course, then you've removed the reason to do the content and also halted player progression.

TLDR: Do the content if you want to gear. If you choose limitations on your activities, you're also choosing to limit how far you will progress.

[therealbowser]

Why does anyone need gear?

People don't need gear so much as they need meaningful character progression. The problem is that you hit that cap in a matter of weeks. We need an alternative to the legendary quest chain... ironically, we have one, but it's only given to raiders. So that leaves casual players with nothing to do once they cap out their armor except to roll an alt or unsubscribe. Or grind artifact power forever, super fun stuff right?

[OperationFerret]

I'm not surprised that a Blizzard employee might give that kind of knee-jerk answer. Every day they have to try and figure out how to keep every kind of player happy and it just isn't ever happening with a game that has been in the mainstream for quite a while.

[sd2400533]

are you seriously asking why the majority of the playerbase needs gear?

you want the majority to have nothing to do?
its a form of progression, it gives you stuff to do in game, for most its fun.

You can't complain about not getting gear when you only willing to play a quarter of WoW's content. The gear is right there in the instance and you refuse to move your finger and looking for a premade, Blizzard can only to so much for you, you cant expect people sitting in the city all day doing pet occsionaly and still get semi-decent gear, I am sorry, MMO-RPG doesn't work that way. Go play candy crush.

[Jinpachi]

Just keep set bonuses and the decent looking armor sets in the dungeons and raids. Let people who don't want to run dungeons grind out their ilvls in the open world.

[Ragedaug]

I got triggered when...

I get triggered when I hear someone talking about how they've been "triggered". It literally means nothing.

Triggered: "something was caused to happen by something else".

"I got caused!!"

Yeah, I'm sure you did...you got caused.

[Hctaz]

At this point I just throw my support behind this. Because this is way better then this RNG clusterfuck stacked Diablo game they have turned Warcraft into.

Fuck titanforge, Fuck random sockets, fuck Legendaries, fuck coins, fuck caches, fuck random stats, and mother fuck Jay Wilson.

Yeah same honestly. I hate feeling like I have to farm Mythic dungeons 24/7 in order to be optimal. I mean fuck it. Keep the titanforge system if they want but keep mythic raiding scaled down. You can increase the item level by 5 every month or something. Keep the gear drops from mythic with stats like they are but that'd be mainly just for the long term. Nobody doing progression on mythic raids will need that gear since ilvl will scale down but once it goes up you'll still have that higher item level so you won't need to keep farming.