Player housing in WoW what do you think about?

[vlobben]

I doubt player housing will ever be done in a meaningful way by blizzard

-Housing can not be instanced. Like it or not, seeing and being seen is an important part of player housing. If they were to implement housing in existing cities they would have to redo the entire layout.
-Decoration options must be nearly limitless. Selecting decoration at pre-selected spots from a list isn't good enough. People need to be able to take their gems out of their inventory and place it on nearby table, making it a light source that illuminates the room. People must be able to take all their old discarded gear and place it in a pile on their bed. Currently wow can not represent 3d models of items in the game world, and I doubt they would go through the monumental job of adding this.

[FelPlague]

That's no excuse, Blizzard has so much dollars for doing whatever they want XD

uh yes there is, any time spent on something, could be spent on someting else... money =/= time

[FurryRedVixen]

player housing, if done right and it has been done before, would never be a waste of dev time as it is something that can be expanded on throughout the games life, look at how FF14 incorporated housing with guilds, adding the hanger/workshop to build airships to goto different missions and even location to fight for things. That was an addition from core to heavensward.

If wows devs would get their heads out of the ground and look around and what evolutionary and evolving game play is, then they could take from that and run with it.

Now please note, these are all assuming that blizz puts housing in an area the would fluidly belong to home cities, not some floating city elsewhere for current content.

For instance, the forges or such could be interesting upgrades that you can invest time and quest into to build up your home, hire servants, have an area that you can seed with fish, farm it etc, Nothing like a mine or such but stuff a normal home could do, normal being possibly magical in nature but still.

This also includes all other prior ideals of customization, not just a flat thing that is garrisons in home cities now, but something else that can be long lasting and usable for many expansions.

[orgonutil]

after garrisons, i think that is a bad idea

[Pantalaimon]

You are both overestimating and underestimating how housing can be handled and it's hilarious.
First all making a video game or features are a time sink, it's called their job.
Second wow is in a horrible horrible rut of raid or pvp, housing would be a welcome distraction for that.
Third programming housing, while might require some tuning, in the long run will pay for itself as it's one of the last vestiges of mmorpgs for them to create.
Fourth, once the foot work is laid out, it would be nothing to add change or remove issues/items.

Also fracture the community? ThI community is already factored by lazy players, casuals, hardcore S, and elitist. Let alone the rich and poor, the horde and alliance. But yeah, housing will be what ends the community of th game, not every little other thing.

- - - Updated - - -



Ppl want what rp servers have, a faction that has a few communities in it one way or the other.

The assumptions you are making with Blizzard's job and handling of possible in-game housing is facepalm worthy to say the least.

Yeah making video games is a time sink and a job for them, but spending a great deal of time doing that for some Sims mod equivalent has not been what they have been dedicating that time towards. Something tells me that it wouldn't be that big of a leap to say that more players would dislike the implementation of housing than would enjoy it when all of that design time detracts from any combination of questing/dungeons/pvp/raiding/more cosmetic rewards like mounts or pets. In general people want to see more of that (hence what we're seeing in Legion). Housing pulls programmers, artists, and other designers away from assets they might have otherwise finished in more asked for areas of the game.

This brings me to the other part of my response to your opinion about housing. You say making the game center less around pvp or raiding would be a welcome distraction if the distraction was player housing. A welcome distraction for which players? If you're going to try to pass off an opinion so matter-of-factly you should at least create a real argument for why you're attempting to say that these other players would like it more than aspects of the game that the MMO was majorly build upon from Vanilla, among other things. Just because you'd like it doesn't mean most would.

Traditional MMORPGS have never been meant to push content similar to player housing. For the most part it wasn't until MMOs that came after WoW that player housing even started getting focused on. The genre has always focused on varying combinations of world exploration and instanced group content before customizeable player housing communiites. I can't help but feel that you don't understand the type of genre of game that you're playing. This isn't Sims, or Club Penguin, or Minecraft. Player customization is pushed in other ways, not building some home where you take care of your garden and micro manage your little jobs inside that home for hours on end. That isn't a traditional MMORPG.

[draykorinee]

No, Ultima online was about player housing, there is no more traditional mmo out there. Your whole last sentence is nonsense.

[Shadowspire]

The assumptions you are making with Blizzard's job and handling of possible in-game housing is facepalm worthy to say the least.

Yeah making video games is a time sink and a job for them, but spending a great deal of time doing that for some Sims mod equivalent has not been what they have been dedicating that time towards. Something tells me that it wouldn't be that big of a leap to say that more players would dislike the implementation of housing than would enjoy it when all of that design time detracts from any combination of questing/dungeons/pvp/raiding/more cosmetic rewards like mounts or pets. In general people want to see more of that (hence what we're seeing in Legion). Housing pulls programmers, artists, and other designers away from assets they might have otherwise finished in more asked for areas of the game.

This brings me to the other part of my response to your opinion about housing. You say making the game center less around pvp or raiding would be a welcome distraction if the distraction was player housing. A welcome distraction for which players? If you're going to try to pass off an opinion so matter-of-factly you should at least create a real argument for why you're attempting to say that these other players would like it more than aspects of the game that the MMO was majorly build upon from Vanilla, among other things. Just because you'd like it doesn't mean most would.

Traditional MMORPGS have never been meant to push content similar to player housing. For the most part it wasn't until MMOs that came after WoW that player housing even started getting focused on. The genre has always focused on varying combinations of world exploration and instanced group content before customizeable player housing communiites. I can't help but feel that you don't understand the type of genre of game that you're playing. This isn't Sims, or Club Penguin, or Minecraft. Player customization is pushed in other ways, not building some home where you take care of your garden and micro manage your little jobs inside that home for hours on end. That isn't a traditional MMORPG.

Well considering this topic comes up multiple times a year by diffrent ppl. It's safe to say there is a want. Also really,bust because every person who wants it isn't vocal doesn't mean there isn't a big enough crowd in the actual game, just look at legacy servers.

Also your either twisting or misunderstanding what I said about the distraction, I'm not saying take away either, what I am saying however, having s home in the game when those things get boring or tiring, to focus on building up would be a perfect breather.

Also really? Last I checked mmo before wow were mixed on having or not having housing. Second you getting so defensive to keep traditional mmorpgs need to look at that last bit, RPGs nowadays have some form of housing. Wether it changing and adding things to your choice of travel, a army you control, or literally just your house, it's there. Trying to excuse wow for being in the stonage is as bad as me asking it to move forward.

Also final thing, the game is already starting to drip players because of the return to the norm. What players really want is new things at a consistent pace, blizzards biggest issue since they made wow, yes having WQ and things back is nice but players also want something to show for it, hence why some in the community are ok when certain items are removed from the game.

[Deleted]

Ìt should be pure cosmetic.

Star Wars: the Old Republic also had player housing (called "strongholds") long before Blizz came up with garrisons or class order halls.

The significant difference is that Swtor player houses, while they offer many practical benefits (like access to bank, AH and vendors and instant traveling to many key planets), they are not mandatory to quest progression or professions, unlike garrisons, order halls and follower missions now are. Plus the internal customization possibilities are endless.

Of course they are also giant money sinks, but the practical execution is still superior to garrisons.

[Turina]

I think player housing is a very fun aspect of FFXIV and that game implements it great once you actually have a house. If WoW can do something similar and solve the problem of housing being unavailable to the vast majority of the population, then I'd love to see it. It's like playing transmog on a much bigger scale. More like The Sims, less management like Garrisons. The key is to make it all optional and cosmetic.

I especially like how player housing is something that can be increased both horizontally and vertically. It's a great feature because it never degrades or >needs< updates if the initial pool is good enough, but every update increments on the pool of choice given without replacing it. Blizzard has done a lot of fantastic features over the years that sadly got pushed to the side, understandably so. But every new furniture wouldn't replace the older pool, it'd just add in to the stuff you can do. I loved this aspect about FFXIV, I use mostly vanilla furniture to make a very classic look, but every so often I come back to the game and see new stuff added in and it feels wonderful to check out what other players are doing.

I also like how neighbours in FFXIV districts, at least in the two servers I played, had this sense of a community. A lot of the players who were my neighbours befriended me eventually as you'd see these people frequently. It was a lot of fun.

[Keristrasza]

Player housing if done well can be an amazing, ever-lasting end-game activity. It's a shame it still isn't in the game as it could offer so much to the game IMO.

Garrisons you can't really call player housing as it lacked any form of real customization. Real player housing is that of Rift and Wildstar.

I long for the day when Blizzard gives wow player housing like Rift. I would hope to "buy" a dimension of ICC or one of my favorite zones and go crazy decorating.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

If you want to look at great housing you have to look at Wild Star. As much as I disliked the game that part of it was pretty amazing. I remember back to really classic games like UO and have good memories. But I also remember the whole country side being nothing but houses and that would really make the environment of WoW so much less than it really is now.

[Deleted]

While I'm sure there are people who would enjoy it, I personally wouldn't use it at all.

Garrisons also left a bitter taste when it comes to players individually having their own place in the world.

[l33t]

While I'm sure there are people who would enjoy it, I personally wouldn't use it at all.

Garrisons also left a bitter taste when it comes to players individually having their own place in the world.

Well, its hard to call garrisons truly a "player's" place in the world. You know, absolute lack of customisation... I couldn't say whether a garrison is mine or my guildmate's, if not for "%Playername's garrison" location name string. Which is absolutely wrong when you talk about real player housing. Just search for Wildstar's player housing in Youtube, and you'll understand what I am talking about.

[Rawmac]

For me, Blizz like to try and keep cities and public areas busy, If we get player housing it will break that.

Also, I cant remember the last time I logged on and had nothing to do except move a picture frame around or figure out where to place my Trophys, I don't really think Wow is a Player housing type of game.

[Turina]

Garrisons have nothing to do with housing the way housing is usually implemented and it kinda saddens me that the two are linked. To mention FFXIV again, which I played to a huge extent, having a house there felt like my place in the world. Garrison felt like a forced mini-game that I knew the moment I stepped in that it'd be obsolete the moment the next expansion kicked in.

Not to mention the complete lack of customization. Even "setting a base" could have felt more like traditional player housing if we had real choices over building the place cosmetically (like a God simulator) or functionally in ways that served the base (like an actual RTS game). That could have been fun, but I think we won't ever see it again since they ruined the concept in everyone's minds by making it a farmville-like minigame.

For me, Blizz like to try and keep cities and public areas busy, If we get player housing it will break that.

Also, I cant remember the last time I logged on and had nothing to do except move a picture frame around or figure out where to place my Trophys, I don't really think Wow is a Player housing type of game.

That's like saying you can't remember the last time you logged on and had nothing to do except change your character's transmog, collect toys, or level pets in a Pokemon mini-game which can or not be way more out-of-place in an MMO, depending on one's point of view.

I mean, I know plenty of people who spent a lot of time farming old-school mounts, more than I ever spent moving picture frames. WoW is pretty busy right now as it is but the reason why WoW is pretty busy is because the devs did a great job of populating the game horizontally AND vertically in the first place for a very different number of players with vastly different gameplay styles and preferences!

[Pantalaimon]

Well considering this topic comes up multiple times a year by diffrent ppl. It's safe to say there is a want. Also really,bust because every person who wants it isn't vocal doesn't mean there isn't a big enough crowd in the actual game, just look at legacy servers.

Also your either twisting or misunderstanding what I said about the distraction, I'm not saying take away either, what I am saying however, having s home in the game when those things get boring or tiring, to focus on building up would be a perfect breather.

Also really? Last I checked mmo before wow were mixed on having or not having housing. Second you getting so defensive to keep traditional mmorpgs need to look at that last bit, RPGs nowadays have some form of housing. Wether it changing and adding things to your choice of travel, a army you control, or literally just your house, it's there. Trying to excuse wow for being in the stonage is as bad as me asking it to move forward.

Also final thing, the game is already starting to drip players because of the return to the norm. What players really want is new things at a consistent pace, blizzards biggest issue since they made wow, yes having WQ and things back is nice but players also want something to show for it, hence why some in the community are ok when certain items are removed from the game.

It's convenient for your side of the argument to say that there are so many of these players wanting player housing, but are simply "isn't vocal". That's nothing more than a cop out answer really. I could try and pass off any point in an argument and say it is legitimate while excusing that my lack of community support for it is really there just that that support isn't vocal about it. See how silly that reasoning is?

The problem with having in-game housing as an activity alongside everything else without detracting from any existing content/features is that that is likely what would happen anyway. Blizzard has struggled quite often at meeting goals, deadlines, requests for various types of content without in-game housing being on their priority to-do list. I don't think any sane player would expect the expansion after Legion to have an equal amount of dungeons, raids, questing/leveling content, cosmetic rewards, etc. if Blizzard also spontaneously started planning for in-game housing during that same expansion. That is not consistent with Blizzard's observable history a majority of the time. So as much as you aren't trying to mean that in-game housing should be meant as something that strips down the amount/quality of content in future expansions the negative potential is most certainly there.

Hate to break it to you, but just because other newer games are doing something, even in the same genre, that doesn't necessarily mean the older games need or should incorporate those same things. Change for the sake of change very often turns out bad for anything in life, let alone the gaming industry. Take a look at single player platforms for a second. While the ever popular Mario titles have changed and adapted a number of things they haven't always jumped on the train to change something the moment some newer non-Mario title introduces something. In fact, a good handful of Mario games even get more retro, or "stone age", elements in that own genre of gaming (such as scrolling for one basic example). Sometimes purposefully keeping some central things in games can actually contribute to all of the games' identities. For example, with the Legend of Zelda franchise, another cult classic, the vast majority of the games always feature Ganondorf/Gannon as the main antagonist. Some titles that deviated from that theme got good reviews, but there were some that invented a new antagonist that got lower reviews (undoubtedly from other contributing factors as well, but the lack of the that one consistent big bad did play a role at times). WoW, while not a single player platform game, can be looked at the same way in many regards. What do you think one of the reasons the game's engine has been overhauled to vastly update the graphics of the game? Money on the producer and consumer ends is definitely two of the top reasons for the lack of change, but in addition the graphics don't need to be the same as the newest shiny thing like recent Final Fantasy titles.

I'm also still waiting for someone to really impress me with a strong point about why the game needs in-game housing. What does such a feature honestly do for the game that nothing else already significantly contributes towards? What core problems to the game does such a feature solve? If you can't provide solid arguments that answer these two simple questions then discussion about WoW incorporating in-game housing is pretty pointless.

[A dot Ham]

Ideas for guild housing (and why they're better than player housing)
- Statues. Statues of players with the current highest Achievement Points, Honorable kills, Highest Mythic+ clear (on time), Most Playtime, Most max level pets and so on.
This is good for a number of reasons but mainly it gives people a goal to show their skill or commitment to the guild and game.

- NPCs.
Auction House, Banker, Portals and others.
Gives a reason to be in the guild house and use it.

- Achievements, Titles, Mounts, Pets, Tabards, cosmetics.
Rewards to motivate people, again a carrot to chase.

This sounds an awful lot like... WoD and... Garrisons... Did we not learn anything? If everything is provided within your guild house... there isn't a whole lot of reason to go out and experience the world.

best of all? everything has to be unlocked by guild achievements.
Want Auction House in your guild hall? Ok SELL 5000 x Herbs, Ores and Leather + 500 crafted armor and 2500 food and/or pots/flasks.
Want PvP Statue? Ok do 500 guild group RBG wins.
Want Pet Statue? Ok do 1000 pet battle wins.
Want Portals? Ok do 10000 repeatable quests. (World Quests, Daily Quests etc)
Want cooler tabard? Ok have 250 characters with max guild rep.
Want mount? Ok spend 100.000 gold on Flight Paths.

and so on...

Ya it still just sounds like Garrisons + Guild Leveling. On the whole players feel (or the "vocal minority" I hate that term fuck you Greg Street) that garrisons were the worst thing to happen to social aspect of the game in a long time. Guild leveling was determined to be a bad thing because people only wanted to be in top level guild for the perks they provided. It completely undermined the reason(s) for starting guilds. Yes day 1 of implementation it was great guild bonding experiences... long term it fell flat (hard).

But why is it better as Guild Hall and not Player House?
Well first of all this is an MMO, a single player doesn't have much impact. It's all about the collective effort of your party, guild or raid. Having time invested in Player Housing that nobody else would see or benefit from isn't a good thing. However if lots of people have to work together this will draw people into guilds of bigger sizes and strengthen those communities.

I don't think player housing will happen at this point. The concept of player housing has evolved... and we have already received it. Garrisons, class halls. Its done. Are you not entertained?

[Lubricious]

It's convenient for your side of the argument to say that there are so many of these players wanting player housing, but are simply "isn't vocal". That's nothing more than a cop out answer really. I could try and pass off any point in an argument and say it is legitimate while excusing that my lack of community support for it is really there just that that support isn't vocal about it. See how silly that reasoning is?

The problem with having in-game housing as an activity alongside everything else without detracting from any existing content/features is that that is likely what would happen anyway. Blizzard has struggled quite often at meeting goals, deadlines, requests for various types of content without in-game housing being on their priority to-do list. I don't think any sane player would expect the expansion after Legion to have an equal amount of dungeons, raids, questing/leveling content, cosmetic rewards, etc. if Blizzard also spontaneously started planning for in-game housing during that same expansion. That is not consistent with Blizzard's observable history a majority of the time. So as much as you aren't trying to mean that in-game housing should be meant as something that strips down the amount/quality of content in future expansions the negative potential is most certainly there.

Hate to break it to you, but just because other newer games are doing something, even in the same genre, that doesn't necessarily mean the older games need or should incorporate those same things. Change for the sake of change very often turns out bad for anything in life, let alone the gaming industry. Take a look at single player platforms for a second. While the ever popular Mario titles have changed and adapted a number of things they haven't always jumped on the train to change something the moment some newer non-Mario title introduces something. In fact, a good handful of Mario games even get more retro, or "stone age", elements in that own genre of gaming (such as scrolling for one basic example). Sometimes purposefully keeping some central things in games can actually contribute to all of the games' identities. For example, with the Legend of Zelda franchise, another cult classic, the vast majority of the games always feature Ganondorf/Gannon as the main antagonist. Some titles that deviated from that theme got good reviews, but there were some that invented a new antagonist that got lower reviews (undoubtedly from other contributing factors as well, but the lack of the that one consistent big bad did play a role at times). WoW, while not a single player platform game, can be looked at the same way in many regards. What do you think one of the reasons the game's engine has been overhauled to vastly update the graphics of the game? Money on the producer and consumer ends is definitely two of the top reasons for the lack of change, but in addition the graphics don't need to be the same as the newest shiny thing like recent Final Fantasy titles.

I'm also still waiting for someone to really impress me with a strong point about why the game needs in-game housing. What does such a feature honestly do for the game that nothing else already significantly contributes towards? What core problems to the game does such a feature solve? If you can't provide solid arguments that answer these two simple questions then discussion about WoW incorporating in-game housing is pretty pointless.

First of all, if someone else can't prove anything by saying the people who desire player housing "aren't vocal", then what evidence do you have that the majority of players would not welcome housing? Or are you suggesting that unless something isn't so important that players are carrying pitchforks and torches to the forums, that people don't actually want it?

Also, I hate to break it to you the way you broke it to that other person, but while they may not be as big as WoW, some of the other MMO's that have incorporated player housing have been running for many years themselves. LOTRO just as one example is almost 10 years old now, and it has player housing. And you should probably know that WoW since it's launch has implemented a very large number of new features and systems that first appeared in other games. That's not a slight against WoW, because I think it's a strength to be able to incorporate new ideas. Change for the sake of change? WoW at launch is nothing like WoW now, so if you are afraid of change you're probably playing the wrong game. Even the most core functions, your very abilities (no matter which class) have drastically changed each expansion.

Lastly, of course WoW doesn't "need" housing. But it doesn't need a lot of things. It didn't "need" pet battles, but that's a very popular feature. And now that it's there, many people who never asked for it are actively participating in it, and the pets create additional rewards.
Housing would be a similar feature. Many people that have never asked for it would use it if it became available. Crafting professions would be able to make housing items, which expands the market viability of your professions, without affecting player power. Housing items could become additional rewards, much like the pets have become, to appeal to those who like housing, and give people who don't something to sell on the auction house.

Really the only valid argument you made was the one of development resources. It's sad that the developers of the most popular MMO whine about resources and can't seem to pull off things other MMO's do with far less. Still, since Blizzard can't seem to handle development well, it's a valid concern that they'd hype the new player housing and use that as a lame excuse to skip a raid tier. But whether that's a fair trade will also be a matter of opinion.

[Pantalaimon]

First of all, if someone else can't prove anything by saying the people who desire player housing "aren't vocal", then what evidence do you have that the majority of players would not welcome housing? Or are you suggesting that unless something isn't so important that players are carrying pitchforks and torches to the forums, that people don't actually want it?

Also, I hate to break it to you the way you broke it to that other person, but while they may not be as big as WoW, some of the other MMO's that have incorporated player housing have been running for many years themselves. LOTRO just as one example is almost 10 years old now, and it has player housing. And you should probably know that WoW since it's launch has implemented a very large number of new features and systems that first appeared in other games. That's not a slight against WoW, because I think it's a strength to be able to incorporate new ideas. Change for the sake of change? WoW at launch is nothing like WoW now, so if you are afraid of change you're probably playing the wrong game. Even the most core functions, your very abilities (no matter which class) have drastically changed each expansion.

Lastly, of course WoW doesn't "need" housing. But it doesn't need a lot of things. It didn't "need" pet battles, but that's a very popular feature. And now that it's there, many people who never asked for it are actively participating in it, and the pets create additional rewards.
Housing would be a similar feature. Many people that have never asked for it would use it if it became available. Crafting professions would be able to make housing items, which expands the market viability of your professions, without affecting player power. Housing items could become additional rewards, much like the pets have become, to appeal to those who like housing, and give people who don't something to sell on the auction house.

Really the only valid argument you made was the one of development resources. It's sad that the developers of the most popular MMO whine about resources and can't seem to pull off things other MMO's do with far less. Still, since Blizzard can't seem to handle development well, it's a valid concern that they'd hype the new player housing and use that as a lame excuse to skip a raid tier. But whether that's a fair trade will also be a matter of opinion.

My point is that if Blizzard does not have any solid feel for a currently theoretical "large enough" interest for in-game housing then they aren't going to bother with the risk of such a change. After all, if you don't know for sure if a significant enough portion of the player base wants the feature and will commit to playing through the content more than very casually why waste those resources we've both made mention of?

So LOTRO has player housing, so what? I never said if WoW did have player housing that it would suddenly make the game fail. I said that WoW doesn't have some obligation to adopt every type of change that games after it incorporated simply for the fact that other games are doing it. There's no real argument for adopting something under that reasoning

The difference between pet battles and in-game housing is that the former actually sends players out into the world, while the latter does not. That was a big criticism of garrisons, people sitting in some phased pseudo-town. Making new content features or content patches that sends players out into the world is better for the game overall than having players sit around in player constructed villages because that many players that are in said village means that fewer players that you actually run into and socialize with when doing other activities. Nobody wants an empty MMO world because they are playing 'Simcraft' in relative isolation.

[Sunnydruid]

Pretty sure player housing is what a ton of us wanted originally. They just somehow interpreted it as garrisons.

Yes I am so for housing. I would imagine it would shine in the RP community as well. Either player housing or legit guild halls. Not guild garrisons, but guild halls.