Karazhan Difficulty and Length

[Relive]

1 hour 35 min, with 5 whipes on medivh and 1 on last boss xd Standing still was to hard @ medivh....

edit: Avrage 865 ilvl.

[Flurryfang]

A simple note:

With a group with an average item lvl of 855, we killed nearly all the bosses with 25-30% time left undtil you hit the boss soft-enrage. I think that most dps with 845 will be able to progress in there, even though i think healers will have it really hard. Some of the bosses are not kind against healers, so maybe 845-850 is a bit low for a healer.

[Archermit]

Don't forget, it's a weekly lock out so You could do it over a few days in 30 minute runs

[Sae]

Took our group about 2-2.5 hours, with a few pauses because our mage was having some issues with his game crashing. Vengeance DH / Holy Paladin / Assassination Rogue (me) / Feral Druid / Fire Mage, all around 870 ilvl.

Personally I loved it and am looking forward to running it again next week. Not sure if I'll go through the whole attunement process again on my alt however.

[Arhippa]

A guild group of people on discord, 4 people who have cleared 7/7 mythic and myself. Think they have around 875 ilvl and I had 865. Took us about 1,5 hours or so yesterday, had quite a few silly wipes. A lot of them due to the massive trash pulls, such as pulling the whole attumen/midnight room together with the boss. Killed the trash but died to the boss. The only boss that seemed harder than the rest was the second last one, mana devourer I believe? Took us a few tries to find a good balance of soaking/letting them go through.

Fairly sure none of us had tried it on the PTR, but one of us had looked up stuff on some of the bosses. Most, if not all of us had done karazhan back in TBC. A step up compared to the other normal mythic dungeons, but not particularly hard for a well geared group to do within a reasonable time frame (2-3h?). I would expect a few wipes in the next couple of weeks if you're pugging it, though not impossible to oneshot everything.

[Deleted]

I did it with an low ilvl pug it took us 7 hours but we got through it

[Fenixdown]

This thread made me glad I didn't come back to Legion. A dungeon should never, EVER take as long as an entire raid night. There's a reason people hated places like BRD and Strat in vanilla (well, less Strat...at least there you could get Scourgestones).

I wish they had just made a newly redone Karazhan and made it the first Tier raid instance. That actually would have gotten me to think more seriously about returning. But a dungeon? That takes 3 hours? No thanks. I didn't like them very much then, and I won't like them now.

Well...I did actually like BRD. But trying to find anyone to run with was like trying to pry candy from a Pepsi vending machine. And that kinda made me hate it. In a few weeks, I suspect this new dungeon will be no different from that.

[Deleted]

880 grp around 1h 20 min 0 wipes
840-50 alt grp, we were surprised by many mechanics we didn't even notice on our first run. 2h 30 min (or 3 hours. Unsure). xD

[clevin]

This place could be doable in a group around 850. You would need to really use the mechanics provided though. Players who aren't used to using their utilities, can't jump or move when needed, or are unable to recognize they should save burst for certain parts of certain boss fights, then it's probably not happening.

That's what I liked about the place. If you screw up, even with higher level gear, you still pay. People who are used to executing mechanics tightly, such as solid mythic raiders, mythic plus people, etc., will likely have a much easier time than people who haven't had to pay attention before. Solutions to the fights aren't novel. Kiting a boss, CC'ing, interrupting, soaking damage as a group, jumping or not moving to avoid damage, it's all in the game all ready.

The problem is that they can't design some things like this and a lot of things that you can just face roll. They need to design may things that each need some of these mechanics so that people are used to having to kite something or cc something. They keep going back and forth and it conditions people wrong.

[Mercane]

This thread made me glad I didn't come back to Legion. A dungeon should never, EVER take as long as an entire raid night. There's a reason people hated places like BRD and Strat in vanilla (well, less Strat...at least there you could get Scourgestones).

I wish they had just made a newly redone Karazhan and made it the first Tier raid instance. That actually would have gotten me to think more seriously about returning. But a dungeon? That takes 3 hours? No thanks. I didn't like them very much then, and I won't like them now.

Well...I did actually like BRD. But trying to find anyone to run with was like trying to pry candy from a Pepsi vending machine. And that kinda made me hate it. In a few weeks, I suspect this new dungeon will be no different from that.

It's taking 3 hours because it's a lot of people's first time in the dungeon, originally we had set out with just doing the first half of the place- but we had such a good time in there we stayed to clear the place. I imagine it will take a bit longer for lesser geared groups (we're mostly 875-880) but the time to clear will go down every week as people become more and more familiar with the place.

That being said, I don't recommend PUGing it. Trash packs either do nothing or hit like trucks, and most bosses have about the same health as +8 Bosses, and have mechanics you actually have to deal with (in most cases anyway) that you can't just lust and burn through. It's definitely a good instance and worth people's time to get attuned.

[Fenixdown]

It's taking 3 hours because it's a lot of people's first time in the dungeon, originally we had set out with just doing the first half of the place- but we had such a good time in there we stayed to clear the place. I imagine it will take a bit longer for lesser geared groups (we're mostly 875-880) but the time to clear will go down every week as people become more and more familiar with the place.

That being said, I don't recommend PUGing it. Trash packs either do nothing or hit like trucks, and most bosses have about the same health as +8 Bosses, and have mechanics you actually have to deal with (in most cases anyway) that you can't just lust and burn through. It's definitely a good instance and worth people's time to get attuned.

Even BC heroics at their worst never took me three hours. The first times through. I recall spending no more than maybe an hour or so in a single heroic in BC. And that wasn't by the point when I was doing SSC/TK and outgeared the places...that was when I was still wearing blues and a few epics from Karazhan (funny enough).

People are saying they're outgearing the place by 25 ilvl and STILL taking 2-3 hours. First time through or not, that's not a freaking excuse. It's a DUNGEON. One tank, one healer, three DPS. That's taking those people as long as I'd spend clearing BLACK TEMPLE. A 25-man raid.

20% of the necessary people should not be taking 200% more time to clear something. That's hideous design that should be left to the boneheads that want legacy servers. In today's WoW populous, this dungeon's going to lead to The Great Exodus 2.0.

And sure. By then, it'll be easier to clear. Your load times to get in will be instantaneous because server traffic will be next to nothing again. Hooray?

[Nikkaszal]

This thread made me glad I didn't come back to Legion. A dungeon should never, EVER take as long as an entire raid night. There's a reason people hated places like BRD and Strat in vanilla (well, less Strat...at least there you could get Scourgestones).

I wish they had just made a newly redone Karazhan and made it the first Tier raid instance. That actually would have gotten me to think more seriously about returning. But a dungeon? That takes 3 hours? No thanks. I didn't like them very much then, and I won't like them now.

Well...I did actually like BRD. But trying to find anyone to run with was like trying to pry candy from a Pepsi vending machine. And that kinda made me hate it. In a few weeks, I suspect this new dungeon will be no different from that.

Blizz stated from the outset of annoucing Return To Kara that it was, in essence, a 5man "raid" designed to cleared by the casual populace over the course of several nights. This was ALWAYS the design, in an expac that aims to provide a lot more content to smaller group sizes.

[KrazyK923]

"Yay they're doing a long dungeon again!"

And now everyone is complaining.

Just another example of people eating all the 'member berries and thinking bad, old, ideas are great and should be brought back.

[Krixi]

3 Manning it with 2 friends for fun (we are around 850-860ilvl) , not really looking at abilities in dungeonjournal before we wipe abit, some fights are a joke and didnt cause us any trouble(maiden, westfall opera), Atunemen was a few l2p wipes but could have been easily managed if we paid some attention (horses spawning on othersides of walls etc).

Moroes was a major struggle with us having to use, Reincarnation, Battleress totem and hunterpet cr. Moroes took us a alot of time, mostly waiting on hero to reset aswell as swapping some characters around for better suited group. The massive struggle on this fight was the garrote damage, doing 93mil dmg over 5:30 (60% of damage taken for the grp), managing those with resses was vital for us.

Cant wait to see what the rest of the instance brings.

[Osmeric]

It's taking 3 hours because it's a lot of people's first time in the dungeon,

How many times do you think people are going to run this place?

First will be last for many players.

[Fenixdown]

Blizz stated from the outset of annoucing Return To Kara that it was, in essence, a 5man "raid" designed to cleared by the casual populace over the course of several nights. This was ALWAYS the design, in an expac that aims to provide a lot more content to smaller group sizes.

Or those same 5 people can queue up for LFR and actually get somewhere in one evening.

This design team's thought process is no better than it was in Warlords, I see.

[JakeCC]

Or those same 5 people can queue up for LFR and actually get somewhere in one evening.

This design team's thought process is no better than it was in Warlords, I see.

Sure they can progress, but they don't need to do much in order to achieve that. This content is designed with the same principle of Mythic + in mind, being that players who have less time, or less skill, can progress on something that's actually meaningful, with friends as a raid would allow, but with fewer people.

While it's not cutting edge, it's surely more difficult than LFR Xavius is, and probably a lot more rewarding, and that goes for raiders too. It gives a decent ilvl, and some really nice drops that are worth doing for them.

Idiot.

[Fenixdown]

Sure they can progress, but they don't need to do much in order to achieve that. This content is designed with the same principle of Mythic + in mind, being that players who have less time, or less skill, can progress on something that's actually meaningful, with friends as a raid would allow, but with fewer people.

While it's not cutting edge, it's surely more difficult than LFR Xavius is, and probably a lot more rewarding, and that goes for raiders too. It gives a decent ilvl, and some really nice drops that are worth doing for them.

Idiot.

You seem to forget the average WoW player doesn't care about the difficulty, they care about the effort to reward ratio.

If effort > reward, they won't like it.

If effort =< reward, they'll flock to it.

And somehow I'm the idiot? I mean, it's not like I played the game for nearly a decade and know how the average WoW player thinks or anything. Clearly this expansion changed the mindsets of the majority of players who asked for things (and got, for the better of the game in most cases) to make the game feel less like a job and more like a game they can pick up a couple of hours or so a week and put back down to live their lives. Yes, how did I not factor that sudden drastic swing in player mentality into my observations and comments? Silly me, egg's on my face!

I don't suggest saying that word again to someone unless you're looking in a mirror.

[FelPlague]

I'm curious about the difficulty as well. I want to know what I need to prepare for here.

For the most part people are just talking about how long it is. How difficult is it?

its about 3 hours long, 4 if your low geared/not really good
it starts easy, but slowly ramps up, the first few bosses are very simple, but as you reach the end it gets harder and harder, the last 2 bosses i would say are equal to 6-7 mythic+

[Nikkaszal]

Or those same 5 people can queue up for LFR and actually get somewhere in one evening.

This design team's thought process is no better than it was in Warlords, I see.

LFR... "get somewhere". Okay.

Well I guess if you no longer wanted to play a game that had far less trivial shit and far more required co-ordination than previous ones (eg Mythic+ and now Kara) then yeah Legion wouldn't be for you. Meanwhile, the rest of us who actually enjoy a rewarding challenge instead of being handed stuff with zero effort will keep playing.

By all means hang onto your fond memories of that epic and rewarding progression you did... in LFR...