7.1 talent changes, sad warlock!

[Deleted]

Compared to WoD, with the cloak enchant and Burning Rush, I feel like the fat kid in gym class, huffing and puffing after my teammates with their bloody movement skills.

This!!!

[Beace]

Yeah not a fan... Both Burning Rush and Demon Skin are extremely nice to have, and it really sucks having to choose 1 of them. Without Burning Rush, literally everyone runs away from you. In a dungeon it feels like I'm constantly several seconds behind the others. But without Demon Skin, we get dismounted and die so much easier out in the world. And that attack in the dungeon that you might have been able to simply soak, suddenly taxes the healer if you don't avoid it.

I don't really think the choice is a fair one. Specially since we can't easily change talents around out in the world.

[Deleted]

The change itself is okay, because warlock were quite tanky before 7.1

The real problem is no compensation elsewhere.

At one point you have taken everything away from a class and leave it a very dull and boring class. This point is looming closer for warlocks.

I get all the class fantasy and stuff, but with limited mobility, no baseline interrupt, no instant gap closer, no baseline movement speed increase, no baseline stun, no baseline instant cast for moving, no real damage immunity like ice block, divine shield, dispersion, whatever the hunter shell is called, and so on, it really feels a bit too castrated.

Let's hope they have something big in stores for warlock in the next patch

Burning rush is unlimited mobility, sure it takes health but don't forget your healthstone / drain life.
If you want a interuppt you can allways take one of the pets. Doomguard (achieved through supremacy) has an interuppt too.
Warlocks aren't the only target with an instant gap closer. Not sure why we'd need it when we are ranged already. If you want mobility on boss fights preplan your Demonic Gateway and Demonic Circle.
Even though Burning Rush isn't baseline, it's sort of mandatory to play with. I guess the real complaint is that it's too powerfull and it would be nice if they nerfed it slightly and compensated by taking that power somewhere else.
Demo Warlocks have a stun on their pet. Ontop of that we can fear.
Affliction warlocks have instant cast dots to deal with movement. Demo has Demonwrath. Destro has Conflagrate, Dimensional Rift. All 3 speccs have life tap and the option to run with pets that are essentially permanent dots.
Damage Immunity is overrated. It's only great in niche situations to avoid boss mechanics. Our ability to just be tanky in general saves more healer mana than being immune to damage for 5 seconds.

In terms of unique abilities we got Demonic Gateway, Healthstones and Summoning Portal. We are still tanky with Soul Leech. Drain Life is drastically underrated in PvE. And unlike what most people state, we deal A LOT of damage right now. People are too focused on rankings which only happens when you can kill a boss fast and ignore mechanics. Not a very accurate representation. The only kill that ever matters is the first.

- - - Updated - - -

My guild needs a warlock

I think demo looks retarded, how are affliction and destro ?

Affliction is pretty bad, Destro has it's niche with cleave. Demo has high skillcap and huge singletarget.

[Deleted]

Yea ok guy, whatever you say. Guess locks aren't tanky at all and mages are better, you got me with your argument.

On Nythendra I don't eat a full breath for rot stacks but I can eat quite a bit if I have 0 stacks to get a couple casts off before moving. On Ursoc even towards the end of the fight the roar doesn't chunk me for much of my health and when targeted with the charge I barely have to run out that far because I can pop DP. I don't have to run out 40 yards just to survive.

But yeah, mages are better

i don't get your point. I never said its not useful to have it, just that its not as good as people think, people actually believe warlocks can literally ignore raid mechanics because they are tanky, they can just survive a lot better in mythic dungeons yes, but in actual raiding, especially when tier raiding comes out that tankyness is not that important.

[Baconeggcheese]

@Hish I feel like you've never raided at a high level if you genuinely think that.

The number of times over the last 2 xpacs I've been specifically assigned to cheese mechanics as part of our strats due to warlock tankiness is silly. Being tanky is soo often more useful than being mobile in raid when you're actually trying to kill bosses and aren't just worried about your own damage.

[Demonidze]

demonic circle is ok, cant say its useless talent. though i admit it was fun poping pact and just ignoring mechanics.. ill miss that

[Deleted]

@Hish I feel like you've never raided at a high level if you genuinely think that.

The number of times over the last 2 xpacs I've been specifically assigned to cheese mechanics as part of our strats due to warlock tankiness is silly. Being tanky is soo often more useful than being mobile in raid when you're actually trying to kill bosses and aren't just worried about your own damage.

I think the problem comes from the Blizzard devs implying that "warlocks are tanky so being an immobile turret is OK"

There's a difference between mobility as in ability to get out of shit that will kill you and mobility as in being able to do stuff whilst moving

The ethos from Blizz seems to be it's Ok for warlocks (except affliction) to have long hard-cast stuff because they don;t need to move because they are tanky (and then they go and "double down on a strength" and nerf this lol). but as has been pointed out, it doesn't translate for themost part in standing in fire to cast Chaos Bolt

Given that this is so, mobility as in having instant-casts or castable-whilst-moving stuff tends to win out over tankiness

That is a separate issue from being able to survive shit that other people can't

Of course peopel worry about their own damage. It is, rightly or wrongly, seen as the primary measure of how "good" a player is and how "useful" they are. Again rightly or wrongly, if you're like 10% or more damage behind and especially if you are behind in damage but ahead in percentiles, it feels bad.

[Baconeggcheese]

it doesn't translate for themost part in standing in fire to cast Chaos Bolt

See the funny thing is you're saying this as I've spent most of this week dealing with volcanic literally standing in fire to cast chaosbolts.

[Gaidax]

^ Pretty much.

To be honest after I seen Nebiroth's warlock in armory, I completely understood the real source of his issues. Can't really expect a guy who did not even clear Heroic EN and has 0 enchants on any of his items to understand any advantages of warlock tankiness in high level content which he does not even do.

If he'd spend all this energy writing up complete hogwash on his character, he'd be frikkin' unstoppable, instead he spends his time writing nonsense about things he has no experience whatsoever with. Guess he does not know any better and it's sad some people fall for that shit.

[Yunaqt]

Oh we're not tanky anymore?
Someone should have told that to M Ursoc when I face tanked his charge 3yds behind the melee group...He must have skipped that memo.
It's the loss of 5% of a shield, still have 15% soul leech, a 1.xm shield you can pre pop and a 40% DR cd.

Easily we're able to take the least amount of damage in any encounter >.>

[Reaper11b]

Oh we're not tanky anymore?
Someone should have told that to M Ursoc when I face tanked his charge 3yds behind the melee group...He must have skipped that memo.
It's the loss of 5% of a shield, still have 15% soul leech, a 1.xm shield you can pre pop and a 40% DR cd.

Easily we're able to take the least amount of damage in any encounter >.>

Yeah according to some people like Hish & Nebiroth, that doesn't matter in high end content. Apparently they know better.

/sarcasm

There's so many mechanics that are just easier to deal with (besides the guaranteed one shots) as a lock where I can just eat damage and continue to push dps. Or as bacon mentioned just flat out cheese or ignore them.

[Sunlighthell]

Focused chaos stealth nerfed to 100% from 150% Took them 2 days to nerf this talent. They also nerfed boomies. But frost dks are untouched. Standart melee bias from Blizzard, nothing new.
Also sweet souls bug still not fixed, UA dispel still hits for 60k and comprounding horror still hits for 12k with reap(11k without, so reap just not working.) Nerf warlocks? 2 days. Fixing warlock bugs? Well, sweet souls bug was discovered last april, and given it still not fixed I believe they will just make it another RNG in 7.2. Also Reap not doubling all traits but yeah they managed to fix buff tooltip. Oh and don't forget, they buffed 2 other mages specs and it seems they nerfed destruction with sac proc chance lowered. But yeah. Strenghts and weaknesses.

[Deleted]

Sad to see that we are literally the worst single target dps spec in the game atm.. last on spider/nythendra (destro). Im not the first one to go full riot mode and complain alot but it feels pretty bad...xavius (padd) and dragons carries us so hard on the overall logs. Feels like destro needs buff now to atleast stay solid. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/10#boss=1853
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/10#boss=1876

Almost the same at 90th percentile. What do you guys think?

[Deleted]

Yeah according to some people like Hish & Nebiroth, that doesn't matter in high end content. Apparently they know better.

/sarcasm

There's so many mechanics that are just easier to deal with (besides the guaranteed one shots) as a lock where I can just eat damage and continue to push dps. Or as bacon mentioned just flat out cheese or ignore them.

are you literally a retard or just acting like one?
Where the fuck did i say that tankyness does not matter in high end content?
I just said that it's not as good as some people make it look like, you telling me you can straight up tank nythendras breath with dark pact and survive, what the fuck even a tank cant do that probably.
You just exaggerate with everything you say and then make shit up about my statements.
Have you even played a warlock in this xpac or are you ust another salty fire mage that likes to sit high up in his throne and hope that no warlock can ever beat him?


Go try to do a few arena games with affli lock right now, you get 1 stun lock and you are dead vs double melee even through all the defensives you pop.

Infracted - Woz

[Gaidax]

you telling me you can straight up tank nythendras breath with dark pact and survive, what the fuck even a tank cant do that probably.

Yes you can, pretty easily actually with Dark Pact + Unending Resolve - you will take a little damage to HP, but that's it.

Here is the parse for Mythic Nythendra for me - took full breath - absorbed most of it easy. And that is with gimped 570k Dark Pact from Imp, when I use Sac, my Dark Pact is almost 2 million HP shield and I can absorb ANYTHING that exists in Mythic EN, literally. There is absolutely no mechanic I can think of in Mythic EN, I can not block with 1 min CD DP+UR combo. I can fully block Brambles on Cenarius, tank Blob on Ilgynoth without moving for like 20 seconds, stand in middle of Gloom explosions from Lethon, take charge without moving far... all on Mythic. Any difficulty less than that and it's lel - you are virtually immortal unless you royally fuckup in-between the 1 min CD and don't have Soul Leech stacked for whatever reason.


https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...aken&source=12

So hurr?

But please, feel free to make up more shit about how warlock tankiness is not as good as some people make it look and stuff, it's amusing.

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Anyway, now that we have successfully established that Nebiroth and Nish clearly don't know what they are talking about (with evidence no less - literally rolling over the floor IRL), we can go on to some more pleasant matters - Circle is actually pretty nice, I almost forgot how good it can be.

Helped me a lot in Mythic Cenarius this week, if I would have Demon Skin instead, would probably be in trouble, also very nice for positioning blades on Xavius, I also used it for Renferal on Heroic to quickly get across to second platform, figured out that I may as well make myself instant teleport across zone with Platform 1 to Circle to Gateway to Platform 2.

Any more uses people see? I'm thinking planting it on the way out of the eyeboss heart chamber to the left to both quickly get out of the heart and also quickly to port to corruptors that pop there eventually.

[Reaper11b]

are you literally a retard or just acting like one?
Where the fuck did i say that tankyness does not matter in high end content?
I just said that it's not as good as some people make it look like, you telling me you can straight up tank nythendras breath with dark pact and survive, what the fuck even a tank cant do that probably.
You just exaggerate with everything you say and then make shit up about my statements.
Have you even played a warlock in this xpac or are you ust another salty fire mage that likes to sit high up in his throne and hope that no warlock can ever beat him?


Go try to do a few arena games with affli lock right now, you get 1 stun lock and you are dead vs double melee even through all the defensives you pop.

Lowering yourself to personal insults now? Nice. Anyway see Gaidax's post, you clearly have zero idea what you're talking about.

And what point are you trying to make, that basically being a tanky caster doesn't matter in high end content when people who've been raiding high end content for years disagree and have proof to back it up?

What a joke.

[Kagthul]

Not gonna lie, not having demon skin and dark pact feels like dog shit in pvp. Sure, it's a deserved nerf, but my god I feel like I drop faster than a mage does.

Which would imply that it isnt a deserved nerf at all.

Not sure how. In world content, you have your pet to tank. In what scenario do you not have time to build your shield up? Or, for that matter, why are you taking damage at all? I think the only time I ever take damage as a lock while out questing is when I go to the elite area in Suramar and try to solo the group quests there.

Keep in mind, your pet ALSO gets the shield from Soul Leech. Not being able to charge it up before your pet starts taking damage MASSIVELY reduces pet survivability. I went from only having to heal my pet occasionally if it had 3-5 mobs on it to having to babysit it constantly even if just one or two mobs are on it.

It is also a huge QoL nerf when traveling, as i now constantly get dazed.

Its also cancer for PvP - not having the shield active when you inevitably get jumped by stealth or from a DH or Monk flying across the map at you pits you at an immediate huge deficit - especially since if you DO have DSkin, you DONT have Dark Pact, which is hugely mandatory to even have the tiniest chance in PvP.

IMO, the auto-stacking feature should just be baked in. Reduce the base absorb to 10%, and the base regen to .5% - and have the Demon Skin talent double both.

[Deleted]

You die during world questing? Yeah that's where I stop taking anyone seriously trying to argue about balance.

[Deleted]

Yes you can, pretty easily actually with Dark Pact + Unending Resolve - you will take a little damage to HP, but that's it.

Here is the parse for Mythic Nythendra for me - took full breath - absorbed most of it easy. And that is with gimped 570k Dark Pact from Imp, when I use Sac, my Dark Pact is almost 2 million HP shield and I can absorb ANYTHING that exists in Mythic EN, literally. There is absolutely no mechanic I can think of in Mythic EN, I can not block with 1 min CD DP+UR combo. I can fully block Brambles on Cenarius, tank Blob on Ilgynoth without moving for like 20 seconds, stand in middle of Gloom explosions from Lethon, take charge without moving far... all on Mythic. Any difficulty less than that and it's lel - you are virtually immortal unless you royally fuckup in-between the 1 min CD and don't have Soul Leech stacked for whatever reason.


https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...aken&source=12

So hurr?

But please, feel free to make up more shit about how warlock tankiness is not as good as some people make it look and stuff, it's amusing.

- - - Updated - - -

Anyway, now that we have successfully established that Nebiroth and Nish clearly don't know what they are talking about (with evidence no less - literally rolling over the floor IRL), we can go on to some more pleasant matters - Circle is actually pretty nice, I almost forgot how good it can be.

Helped me a lot in Mythic Cenarius this week, if I would have Demon Skin instead, would probably be in trouble, also very nice for positioning blades on Xavius, I also used it for Renferal on Heroic to quickly get across to second platform, figured out that I may as well make myself instant teleport across zone with Platform 1 to Circle to Gateway to Platform 2.

Any more uses people see? I'm thinking planting it on the way out of the eyeboss heart chamber to the left to both quickly get out of the heart and also quickly to port to corruptors that pop there eventually.

Yet again you change the argument i was making, you add in extra cds that was not in the argument, i said you cant take full breath with dark pact and your argument was that you can with dark pact and unending resolve?

Lowering yourself to personal insults now? Nice. Anyway see Gaidax's post, you clearly have zero idea what you're talking about.

And what point are you trying to make, that basically being a tanky caster doesn't matter in high end content when people who've been raiding high end content for years disagree and have proof to back it up?

What a joke.

Yet again, i never said warlocks are not tanky casters, they are, but they are not as tanky as you people make it sound... stop forcing shit on me that i never said.

[Reaper11b]

Yet again you change the argument i was making, you add in extra cds that was not in the argument, i said you cant take full breath with dark pact and your argument was that you can with dark pact and unending resolve?

Yet again, i never said warlocks are not tanky casters, they are, but they are not as tanky as you people make it sound... stop forcing shit on me that i never said.

Dude you're trying to say they're not as tanky as people think when they actually are. Then you say shit like, they're tanky but it doesn't matter in high end pve content, when that's false. I mean if you want to stick to spreading misinformation then by all means.