Thoughts on Tanking and Blood going into Legion (LONG)

[Sunnydee]

checking a couple of pages but esus christ it seems people are only arguing over whats best and not providing any info so is there any real data of what i should pick for stats for 5mans ++ ? (0 raiding enviorments)

atm im goin haste>versa=mast(mostly cuz alot of gear got it)> crit.

should i keep going or change something?

[AzrienDK]

checking a couple of pages but esus christ it seems people are only arguing over whats best and not providing any info so is there any real data of what i should pick for stats for 5mans ++ ? (0 raiding enviorments)

atm im goin haste>versa=mast(mostly cuz alot of gear got it)> crit.

should i keep going or change something?

The general consensus is Haste>vers or crit> mastery. Mastery is considered complete trash at the moment so I would try to avoid it if possible.

Personally I am going Haste > Crit

[Highwhale]

Dungeons - Haste>Crit. Raids - Haste>Mastery.

[Rubim]

Dungeons - Haste>Crit. Raids - Haste>Mastery.

Wat?

Mastery vs Versatility

I'm not saying that mastery doesn't give blood shields, I'm saying that versatility negates more damage per point than mastery does because death strike is only a third of our mitigation, at most.

You do not choose between "having a blood shield" and "getting more healing from versatility they're all multiplicative bonuses so versatility increases your death strike heal by 10% which in turn increases the size of the blood shield that scales with the death strike heal.The point is that you negate more damage by increasing all your healing with versatility 4,000 versatility would increase the size of your blood shield by 10%, death strike heal by 10%, consumption heal by 10% and your blood plague leech by 10%

[Tehr]

checking a couple of pages but esus christ it seems people are only arguing over whats best and not providing any info so is there any real data of what i should pick for stats for 5mans ++ ? (0 raiding enviorments)

atm im goin haste>versa=mast(mostly cuz alot of gear got it)> crit.

should i keep going or change something?

Haste >>>> Crit >= Versatility >> Mastery in dungeons is your go-to. Crit scales well with healing in dungeons (particularly through Blood Plague), and there are a LOT of pieces that have Haste/Crit (although Crit is often the heavy stat), but VERY FEW pieces that are Haste/Vers (zero in EN, 12 total in dungeons including some in the same slots and some that are Vers-heavy, compared to 17 pieces that are Haste/Crit with heavy Haste).

While item level is important, Haste is our only legitimately impactful secondary stat, so you should first aim to have Haste on every piece of gear, then aim for Haste as the heavy stat on all of your gear, then aim for the above weights.

[Highwhale]

Wat?

Mastery vs Versatility

The reason is Mastery boosts your heal from DS through absorb. Because raid bosses are the hardest hitting content and your DS heal depends from what damage you get. Your heal from DS spawn Blood Shield thats boost from said DS heal and Mastery.

PS I dont wanna argue how Mastery is good/bad. Some people just can't understand how Blood Shield boost your heal from DS through absorb. Even if Blood Shield works only against physical damage (What can be big + on some fights by giving you +25% leech from gold trait).

[Rubim]

The reason is Mastery boosts your heal from DS through absorb. Because raid bosses are the hardest hitting content and your DS heal depends from what damage you get. Your heal from DS spawn Blood Shield thats boost from said DS heal and Mastery.

PS I dont wanna argue how Mastery is good/bad. Some people just can't understand how Blood Shield boost your heal from DS through absorb.

But it's not enough.

People did the math. Check my post.

You will get MORE damage reduction from Vesatility.

Even with the increased DS Healing, you will still take more dmg focusing on mastery (subtracting the healing).

Post your logs so we can compare!

[Deleted]

Just ignore Highwhale. He is giving bad advice regarding stats and talents all over this thread.

[believesteve]

But it's not enough.

People did the math. Check my post.

You will get MORE damage reduction from Vesatility.

Even with the increased DS Healing, you will still take more dmg focusing on mastery (subtracting the healing).

Post your logs so we can compare!

Curious; can you post a link with the math on this? I'm still confused as to the impact of versatility (atm I'm all haste + crit/vers). Does versatility apply its damage reduction to the total potential damage a mob will do before any other damage reductions are factored? Is that why it's good?

[redfella]

Curious; can you post a link with the math on this? I'm still confused as to the impact of versatility (atm I'm all haste + crit/vers). Does versatility apply its damage reduction to the total potential damage a mob will do before any other damage reductions are factored? Is that why it's good?

No, its flat percentage reduction after everything else. Same goes for the healing modifier, which also affects DS minimum healing and by that, mastery shield size as well.

[Highwhale]

You will get MORE damage reduction from Vesatility.

Even with the increased DS Healing, you will still take more dmg focusing on mastery (subtracting the healing).

I never say Damage Reduction. Mastery > Versatility healing wise. Its buff your DS heal through absorb if u counter physical damage OR its provide you longer +25% Leech buff when u counter magic damage.

Even with the increased DS Healing, you will still take more dmg focusing on mastery (subtracting the healing).

More damage you take the more healing you will get. Its current BDK.

Same goes for the healing modifier, which also affects DS minimum healing and by that, mastery shield size as well.

Yea but i want to admit - Mastery gives more heal/absorb than Versatility if we talking about Death Strike and Blood Shield.

PS Versatility gives more DR i am agreed there. But in raids during boss fights i will prefer more self healing - more mastery on my gear.

[Deleted]

Just ignore Highwhale. He is giving bad advice regarding stats and talents all over this thread.

Quoting for the simple importance, he's shitposting and being factually wrong all over the forum too.

[Baddok21]

no haste/versatility gear?

If your serious about performance who is trying to gear up from raids vs High M+ runs?

and when you weigh mastery vs Versatility you have to remember a few factors in versatilities favor

1) Versatility Increases the heal from Death strike
2) Versatility Increases the blood shield absorb from death strike (independant of the heal being larger from versaility to begin with)
3) Versatility Increases the blood shield effect again due to the baseline dmg reduction calculated before blood shield is factored in

we actually get triple the benefit from Versatility due to this

[Tehr]

no haste/versatility gear?

If your serious about performance who is trying to gear up from raids vs High M+ runs?

and when you weigh mastery vs Versatility you have to remember a few factors in versatilities favor

1) Versatility Increases the heal from Death strike
2) Versatility Increases the blood shield absorb from death strike (independant of the heal being larger from versaility to begin with)
3) Versatility Increases the blood shield effect again due to the baseline dmg reduction calculated before blood shield is factored in

we actually get triple the benefit from Versatility due to this

I actually don't think the shield increases with versatility on top of the increased base heal amount.

[Northern Goblin]

The concept that mastery is good because of the increased absorb effect from blood shield is bogus because even if you stacked mastery the shield is so pitiful it's knocked off almost instantly.

With the loss of resolve, that multiplier that made BS and mastery worth it has gone. Unless Blizzard gives BS a more favourable multiplier or vastly increases the effect from mastery, it's your junk stat.

[Rubim]

More damage you take the more healing you will get. Its current BDK.

I don't think you know how that works.

It's before dmg reduction. So even if you reduce that to say, 50%. For DS Heals it will still counts a 100% dmg taken.

[Siyalib]

Dungeons - Haste>Crit. Raids - Haste>Mastery.

why are you spreading misinformation.. vers is miles better than mastery as a survivability stat, and honestly you want survivability in high 10-15 mythics a lot more than mythic raiding....

[Llarold]

I actually don't think the shield increases with versatility on top of the increased base heal amount.

You are correct. It does not.

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The concept that mastery is good because of the increased absorb effect from blood shield is bogus because even if you stacked mastery the shield is so pitiful it's knocked off almost instantly.

Therein lies the issue.
If you could get enough Mastery to protect Bone Shield charges for more than one hit, Mastery would take a hilarious jump up in value. Until you reach that point, it's really not good. Unfortunately, that Bone Shield-protecting Mastery value is super hard to nail down due to lack of reliable sims and all the basic complexities of combat (e.g., the Death Strike window, dodge/parry, etc.) that are compounded by Bone Shield's own crappy eccentricities.

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why are you spreading misinformation.. vers is miles better than mastery as a survivability stat, and honestly you want survivability in high 10-15 mythics a lot more than mythic raiding....

Damage output is a very important survival tool in high level Mythic dungeons.

[Siyalib]

Damage output is a very important survival tool in high level Mythic dungeons.

I'm aware of that, I'm just telling the guy that he's wrong in saying mastery is the priority.. I was saying that even Vers would be better and if you reallllly wanted to build survivability than you would stack haste>vers..

Vers is actually relatively close to Crit(which is even better than Haste as a DPS stat for us aside from on extreme aoe situations) and its infinitely better than Crit as a survivability stat.

Mastery isn't even absolutely terrible but its just not better than Crit or Vers for a DPS stat, or Vers as a survivability stat.

Also survivability is really only a real issue when you're getting into the higher 12-15+ dungeons. Mythic raiding damage isn't near the level of damage you take in dungeons. Which is why I said you need survivability more so in high end dungeons than you do for mythic raiding.

[Baddok21]

I actually don't think the shield increases with versatility on top of the increased base heal amount.

I will go test this to make sure

but i am 100% confident versatility increases the absorb amount of all other absorbs in game.