Mythic Cenarius - What's your way of dealing with Nightmare Brambles ?

[hyperhyve]

Hey guys,
my 2-day raid just killed Mythic Ilgynoth and we now have one day of time to focus on Cenarius. Our DPS is good enough to pull off the 2-wave/nuke tactic. By now, we've had 13 pulls on him and brought him down to ~ 43%. So far so good. As was to be expected, the brambles are the one thing that seem to be a big deal for us.
How do you cope with the mechanics ? Any special tips or tricks to handle the brambles ?

[NightZero88]

Hey guys,
my 2-day raid just killed Mythic Ilgynoth and we now have one day of time to focus on Cenarius. Our DPS is good enough to pull off the 2-wave/nuke tactic. By now, we've had 13 pulls on him and brought him down to ~ 43%. So far so good. As was to be expected, the brambles are the one thing that seem to be a big deal for us.
How do you cope with the mechanics ? Any special tips or tricks to handle the brambles ?

Edit: Whoops, you said mythic not heroic. Ignore.

[Soulzar]

The more spread out you are, the easier it is to know who brambles is focusing. Dont have ranged positioned in such a way that it can spawn on one side of the boss and focus somebody on the other side and trail it through melee on its way from point A to point B. Make sure whoever get brambles tries to overlap them as much as possible; Don't just run 20 yards away and let it draw a line through the middle of your raid. Outside of that, you will want to ensure you setup a clear order with your hunters/rogues/priest/pally or whoever else can clear them.

[Traxion]

Most of it is getting people used to brambles. Our strat focused around letting DPS continue doing DPS instead of clearing so that we could make the 2:45 push timer.

Brambles 1: Find out who it's on and they give it a good kite away or in a circle. Most all other range run into tree to soak stomp. Range run out of melee area after stomp finishes.

Tree dies and that tank goes and clear brambles. Ideally a paladin but another tank can get freedom. We use BOP and Ironbark so he can clear a lot.

Brambles 2/3: Run them smartly. Rogue or other class clears middle brambles where sister will be tanked when they come out to kill the wisps and sister

Once wisps/sister is dead everyone focus dmg on boss and just stay away from brambles. If there ends up being a bad brambles placement, we'll have a hunter clear a few in the middle.

Last phase, use as many immunities as you can for spear. Run brambles backwards away from kite path. Shouldn't need to clear if done correctly but this phase is easy. Call extra clears as needed.

[Deleted]

Most of it is getting people used to brambles. Our strat focused around letting DPS continue doing DPS instead of clearing so that we could make the 2:45 push timer.

Brambles 1: Find out who it's on and they give it a good kite away or in a circle. Most all other range run into tree to soak stomp. Range run out of melee area after stomp finishes.

Tree dies and that tank goes and clear brambles. Ideally a paladin but another tank can get freedom. We use BOP and Ironbark so he can clear a lot.

Brambles 2/3: Run them smartly. Rogue or other class clears middle brambles where sister will be tanked when they come out to kill the wisps and sister

Once wisps/sister is dead everyone focus dmg on boss and just stay away from brambles. If there ends up being a bad brambles placement, we'll have a hunter clear a few in the middle.

Last phase, use as many immunities as you can for spear. Run brambles backwards away from kite path. Shouldn't need to clear if done correctly but this phase is easy. Call extra clears as needed.

What kind of raid dps would you need to do the 2:45 strat? Feels like it'd be a pretty high amount.

[Traxion]

We 3 tanked and 4 healed. 6,192,886.3 Raid DPS over 2:45. That includes tanks and healer damage. Our disc and hpal both did about 20mil damage a piece. We would not have made it without them. It is a high amount. Execution has to be solid so that you don't lose DPS time.

Full Log: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

2:45 Snapshot: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...9&end=10390874

[Deleted]

We 3 tanked and 4 healed. 6,192,886.3 Raid DPS over 2:45. That includes tanks and healer damage. Our disc and hpal both did about 20mil damage a piece. We would not have made it without them. It is a high amount. Execution has to be solid so that you don't lose DPS time.

Full Log: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

2:45 Snapshot: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...9&end=10390874

Surprised you did it without spriests StMing early nor mages.

But I'm derailing the thread.

[Cheze]

people need to have a good sense of where they should be kiting the brambles at a particular time (i.e. away from the initial stack clump, not into spots you'll need around the edge when you get near the 35% transition, not too close to the drake tank, etc); hopefully this also cuts down the amount of random bramble-standing-in you experience. Other than that it's just a matter of paying attention, since there are afaik no addons that can track the brambles target.

[BiggestNoob]

What kind of raid dps would you need to do the 2:45 strat? Feels like it'd be a pretty high amount.

We pushed it this week with most of the raid not using Vantus runes, so it's not particularly tight, raid ilvl was 878.

[aGit]

Hey guys,
my 2-day raid just killed Mythic Ilgynoth and we now have one day of time to focus on Cenarius. Our DPS is good enough to pull off the 2-wave/nuke tactic. By now, we've had 13 pulls on him and brought him down to ~ 43%. So far so good. As was to be expected, the brambles are the one thing that seem to be a big deal for us.
How do you cope with the mechanics ? Any special tips or tricks to handle the brambles ?

rogues, paladins, hunters and SPs are the ones who should clear the brambles every once in a while. an outlaw rogue with the right rolls, can clear quite often.

[hyperhyve]

people need to have a good sense of where they should be kiting the brambles at a particular time (i.e. away from the initial stack clump, not into spots you'll need around the edge when you get near the 35% transition, not too close to the drake tank, etc); hopefully this also cuts down the amount of random bramble-standing-in you experience. Other than that it's just a matter of paying attention, since there are afaik no addons that can track the brambles target.

Thank you. We're currently not really struggeling with the placement of the brambles, but rather with identifying who's being targeted by them. Sounds like it's just a matter of experience with the encounter then, I guess.

[Guzrud]

Thank you. We're currently not really struggeling with the placement of the brambles, but rather with identifying who's being targeted by them. Sounds like it's just a matter of experience with the encounter then, I guess.

After 100 wipes on the fight and 2 kills on him I can give you a completely comprehensive guide on how to deal with brambles and score a quick kill.......

Pull the boss watch as 3 people die to brambles in the first 90 seconds repeat.....

I know this sounds stupid but this is all there is to it. The problem is this is one of those mechanics that blizzard likes to put into the game where a boss mod is not able to hold your hand. You will have people who learn quickly and master the mechanic but lets be honest lots of people struggle with standing in bad even when a boss mod tells them that they are. Those people will cause you wipes until they get into the mindest that they need to be focused on where it is going at all times and the only avenue to that place is experience and pulls. You can have the most comprehensive clearing strategy however that wont help the people who are just not cognizant of their surroundings in the raid setting and they will still die to it. We finished Cenarius in legit about 100 pulls doing the burn strat and Brambles were probably 70% of our wipes.

Just keep pulling eventually the combined awareness of your group will hit that point where getting the kill is possible but nothing but more pulls will solve this.

Jadawin
Fluff and Blood
Burning Blade

[Deleted]

After 100 wipes on the fight and 2 kills on him I can give you a completely comprehensive guide on how to deal with brambles and score a quick kill.......

Pull the boss watch as 3 people die to brambles in the first 90 seconds repeat.....

I know this sounds stupid but this is all there is to it. The problem is this is one of those mechanics that blizzard likes to put into the game where a boss mod is not able to hold your hand. You will have people who learn quickly and master the mechanic but lets be honest lots of people struggle with standing in bad even when a boss mod tells them that they are. Those people will cause you wipes until they get into the mindest that they need to be focused on where it is going at all times and the only avenue to that place is experience and pulls. You can have the most comprehensive clearing strategy however that wont help the people who are just not cognizant of their surroundings in the raid setting and they will still die to it. We finished Cenarius in legit about 100 pulls doing the burn strat and Brambles were probably 70% of our wipes.

Just keep pulling eventually the combined awareness of your group will hit that point where getting the kill is possible but nothing but more pulls will solve this.

Jadawin
Fluff and Blood
Burning Blade

burn strat as in P2 after the third add wave?

[BiggestNoob]

burn strat as in P2 after the third add wave?

No, before the third. After the third makes it slightly easier, and doing the 4th+ waves is when the fight gets hard.

He'll do forces shortly after the pull and you cleanse wisps and get a drake and a tree. You cleave down the tree and kill it just before it hits 100 energy for the second time. He casts it again, you cleanse wisps again, kill the corrupted wisps and then basically ignore the sister and push Cenarius to 35%. The sister either dies right before or right after you push, you still have wisp pools on the ground, and you just lol dps to 0% and your drake tank isn't really at risk of dying from 2.

Guilds that don't quite have the DPS for it can do things like early S2Ms because once you push you can 10 man the boss to 0 since the last phase is really easy. The check isn't particularly high, we kill the sister at like 42% and still push it without runes, so I suspect any guild that really tries and has no problem killing Ursoc/Ilgy is capable of doing it.

[Deleted]

No, before the third. After the third makes it slightly easier, and doing the 4th+ waves is when the fight gets hard.

He'll do forces shortly after the pull and you cleanse wisps and get a drake and a tree. You cleave down the tree and kill it just before it hits 100 energy for the second time. He casts it again, you cleanse wisps again, kill the corrupted wisps and then basically ignore the sister and push Cenarius to 35%. The sister either dies right before or right after you push, you still have wisp pools on the ground, and you just lol dps to 0% and your drake tank isn't really at risk of dying from 2.

Guilds that don't quite have the DPS for it can do things like early S2Ms because once you push you can 10 man the boss to 0 since the last phase is really easy. The check isn't particularly high, we kill the sister at like 42% and still push it without runes, so I suspect any guild that really tries and has no problem killing Ursoc/Ilgy is capable of doing it.

interesting.

We are currently doing 3 waves and still struggle with the third wave because brambles/wisp explosions and scorned touch at the same time causes deaths. We have been in P2 a few times but since people forget to clear the brambles our movement is massively restricted and the walls get always 2-3 people.

When the sisters spawn, how do you handle them(her, its only one right?)? How do you handle the scorned touch? And at what point do you let your shadows surrender to push P2 this early? I imagine quite a lot of raid DPS is required.

[kaib]

interesting.

We are currently doing 3 waves and still struggle with the third wave because brambles/wisp explosions and scorned touch at the same time causes deaths. We have been in P2 a few times but since people forget to clear the brambles our movement is massively restricted and the walls get always 2-3 people.

When the sisters spawn, how do you handle them(her, its only one right?)? How do you handle the scorned touch? And at what point do you let your shadows surrender to push P2 this early? I imagine quite a lot of raid DPS is required.

the DPS requirement to get him to 35% before wave 3 isn't all that bad really, I think it's more of a case of either the top guilds not trying this or just not having enough gear when they got there in week 1. Only doing two waves is a far superior tactic imo, it just removes the toughest part of the fight - double sister with respawning wisps. we 5-heal it (although with a disciple priest and a holy paladin using his burst on the pull) and still make the dps requirement. our spriest doesn't STM early either. we tried taht but the problem is that he takes a LOT of damage when thorns are up and he goes nuts on two targets.

We don't kill the sister before we push the boss, it's typically on 30-40% or so and we finish it off in phase 2. you want to spread for brambles anyway. a log of a 5 healer kill:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...hDMPK#fight=10

@hyperhyve: I don't think there's a trick to the brambles. be spread out as much as possible to see who's targeted. bring enough melees/melee-classified healers (monks, paladins can not be targeted by brambles afaik) so you can pull the ancient on top of the boss to cleave it down without any range having to soak the stomp as brambles running into melee is just a fucking nightmare. bring enough classes to clear them frequently, but that's about it.

[hyperhyve]

Thanks for all your answers. Looking forward to kill Cenarius with all your tips tomorrow!

[BiggestNoob]

interesting.

We are currently doing 3 waves and still struggle with the third wave because brambles/wisp explosions and scorned touch at the same time causes deaths. We have been in P2 a few times but since people forget to clear the brambles our movement is massively restricted and the walls get always 2-3 people.

When the sisters spawn, how do you handle them(her, its only one right?)? How do you handle the scorned touch? And at what point do you let your shadows surrender to push P2 this early? I imagine quite a lot of raid DPS is required.

Yeah in that wave you just get a sister + drake and your drake tank picks up the drake so you have the single sister to deal with. The sister will put javelin DoTs on people and scorned touch is mostly a non issue if you have everyone positioned well. Melee still have to adjust around it, so I hope your raid isn't heavy melee. People kiting brambles at this point just need to make sure they're ahead of it or have some kind of external freedom or a personal that can break a snare, or be ready to pop a personal CD and ask for healing + dispel if they have to eat the brambles.

I still think the most impressive thing of EN progression is this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBRTwdQyVng

They have more room because they aren't doing the drake tank thing, but they also got through the high stack part before the 4th forces and just did the 5th forces. That's 3 waves of wisps, killing all 4 drakes, and not losing people to drake explosions + followed by second stomp.

[steveh]

For the wave 2 sister, do you stack her on boss or leave her out in the middle away from boss?

[Avalrand]

Our guild has quite an annoying problem on Mythic Cenarius. Very often (maybe 1 pull of 3) anything but wisps is being cleansed. I looked at replays of such pulls, it seems that everyone is standing at the correct quarter of the encounter arena. Even if someone is standing closer to another add's spawn point, Malfurion must cleanse the add where more raiders are standing, mustn't he? Have we overlooked something? Here is the replay of the one of such pulls, as well as other logs.