7.1.5. - not just a number tuning.

[Dietrik]

I don't see why we are not tanky, well at least as Demo. I have over three times the healing of the next hps on the healing list through a near passive heal and absorb, thats before even casting Drain Life which unbuffed for me is 6 ticks of 81k over 4s.

The only time i am not tanky is if i have to move for an extended period of time, dark pact is for that. But with my boots i don't even need to take Dark Pact, doom/tap a couple of times will almost always proc my cast on the move and then drain life.

Before the change i barely needed to cast dark pact anyway, now with our mobility back i have even less need for it.

[Deleted]

both affliction and destruction are such broken and incomplete specs that there is absolutely no way they could ever fix them within this expansion. they need complete overhauls and as long as blizz's stance is that mediocrity is something to celebrate for a spec things won't change. there's already a thread that explains why affliction is not a functional spec right now, but destruction has just as many problems. for example why in the world would they think balancing an entire spec around a single spell like Havoc would be a good idea. with how Havoc currently works they simply cannot allow destruction to be competitive in single target, since if the spec was good in ST it would do twice as much for 2 targets, which would be completely broken. in the current iteration it's such a cheesy spec that constantly seeks to find a secondary target to pad its damage no matter how viable the damage on that other target might be.
so yea, best thing warlocks can hope for is some more talent shuffling that will be mostly nonsensical.

[Deleted]

Soul Effigy baseline would be nice for affliction, despite the fact many people dislike that talent, it is our best ST boost and having it baseline can fix affs ST issues. If it would be baseline, Blizz can tune it up without getting into balancing issues with the other talents.

I would like to see something done with howl of terror as well. That "talent" is useless.

Someone can dream.

Not unless they can actually make SOul Effigy fun to use, there's a good reason it is pretty much universally hated.

It is by far the worst dot modifier they ever came up with. It increases affliction's already terrible ramp, it's locked to one target so it makes affliction's already bad target swapping ability and priority-add-killing capacity even worse and it's a pain in the arse to use

Just giving it an unlimited range hitbox would help a lot. But I;d rather see the damn thing just gone. No idea why they thought it was a good idea, it's Prismatic Crystal only worse, and mages hated PC.

[Deleted]

why do we always care about being tanky?
We are damage dealers.

I mean its nice and all, but I would prefer doing more damage instead of taking less damage

[Lucrece]

why do we always care about being tanky?
We are damage dealers.

I mean its nice and all, but I would prefer doing more damage instead of taking less damage

Because in PvP you don't get to turret a target dummy. People actually stop your casts and counterburst you.

So if you can't live through the 9+ seconds melee can lock you from casting anything while they are tunneling you with CD's, you won't even have the chance to retaliate.

And since locks have neither the CC or escape tools of mages, they MUST have humongous amounts of effective HP to mitigate damage they can't avoid to be able to respond in PvP.

Same applies to PvE, really. Being able to tank those Cordana spectral walls with resolve+demon skin+ dark pact or volcanic without stressing your healer made for a large difference in DPS since warlocks don't have much in the way of effective instant cast damage while moving.

No, life tap and demonwrath are hardly compensation for having to move around. They're really shitty consolation prizes you cast because you have no meaningful alternatives like Scorch or instant cast Pyroblasts or Surrender to Madness or Beastmastery's insane mobile damage.

What you do by buffing damage to compensate for lack of survival is to create high burst scenarios which PvP wants to avoid because it is not fun when 2 destro warlocks target someone and that person blows up in 2 casts.

[Xorn]

People's expectations are out of whack to be honest, especially for Destruction. Like my wildest dream for Destruction is Reverse Entropy becoming baseline and that's it and I am not sure whether it will even get anything or whether it actually needs to get anything mechanically to begin with, the RE bit is simply because everyone and their mothers take it and I'd rather get it out of the way, made baseline and replaced by some interesting new talent more balanced with the others in the row.

I also really hope that globally Mana Tap goes for good, it's pretty obvious that nobody seriously takes it because of how much of a shit gameplay it is, what I am afraid of is Blizzard digging in, like they love to do that and buff it to the point where you have to take it just because for numbers.

Other specs are a fair game, but they were improved a lot simply by tuning since launch and I don't think Blizz is going to toss a huge revamp people expect there.

If RE was made baseline, I'd probably actually use mana tap. One global is far less cumbersome than it's current incarnation. I could get on board with that

[Korlok]

As a Destro player, I have to say things aren't as bad as many bemoan. I agree, we need to have our reliance on Wreak Havoc reduced so single target could be upped a tad, not much at all. I'd also love to see some form of baseline interrupt that isn't stun or fear based. You cannot be in the interrupt rotations during a raid with fear and stun interrupts, for the most part too many of the mobs needing that are immune. The mastery is so bland and painful, but it doesn't really hurt our gameplay mechanics (it doesn't help either though). If they bake reverse entropy in baseline (which I really think is likely), I'll be happy.

[Kirroth]

As a Destro player, I have to say things aren't as bad as many bemoan.

Destro's numbers aren't that bad. That's why it's the spec I've ended up using. It's just so. Damned. DULL. You're basically alternating Chaos Bolt and Incinerate, and that's it. The artifact ability is boring and mechanically uninvolved with the rest of your rotation, there's nothing in the way of interesting procs or short cooldowns, there's no moments of excitement where you get to do something cool or flashy or powerful.

This is the third expec I've run Destro as my main spec (the other two being Cata and Mists). It's by far the least I've enjoyed it of the three. I'd happily swap if there were a better option, but the other two specs are in even worse shape. Destro, at least, has the numbers to get the job done. It's just not very fun doing it.

[noaim]

Dark Pact, Demon Skin and I dont know, maybe our immunitybubble with followup damage (forgot the name) should be on one talent row. Three defensive skills, with different use. That is what you want to choose between. Then Burning Rush should be moved to the same line as Demonic Circle, with the 3rd talent being something new, or some modifier for Demonic Portal or whatever. Three talents that affects movement in different ways.

The rest is just such a mess in most cases that it makes me tired just to think about it, the above would be a good start at fixing our talent rows at least, and then continue with the rest in the same fashion.

And yeah, please remove Soul Effigy, its just...shit really.

[Ashkiman]

We won't get anything.

We're busted mechanically (Since apparently certain people think just being tuned well means it doesn't matter how shitty our gameplay style is) until at least the next expasion.

They did say something about changing some class mechanics in 7.1.5 or 7.2 I think.

[Deleted]

why do we always care about being tanky?
We are damage dealers.

I mean its nice and all, but I would prefer doing more damage instead of taking less damage

Because demonology and to some extent are tied to hard casts that moving drives a wrecking ball through. They're both designed so that you mitigate your requirement to turret by surviving things other classe shave ot move out of whilst spamming their instant casts

In PVP lock shave to have survivability because their only option is to survive through a (insert random melee class here) stunlocking us for 8-9 seconds whilst handing out massive damage

We can't break out, we can't escape, we can't peel them of fus. We're supposed to be tanky and we're designed around it

[Deleted]

for example why in the world would they think balancing an entire spec around a single spell like Havoc would be a good idea.

Their best trick is to make you think that all this incompetence is fresh and new, everytime, like... like almost for every spell because there is nearly nothing new really... maybe

Soul Effigy...

[Banearator]

Am I the only one that really likes the PVP instant cast Immolate? It would add something to our movement and casting issues without making it to OP, especially in AOE and add heavy fights, will get shards rolling faster, enabling more rain of fire = more AOE damage without having to change much, its already in the game as a PVP talent.

[Stryker-88]

I agree with Destro Rotation being a bit lacklustre. I dont want to directly compare us to fire mages, but their procs are fun, plain and simple. The most we get is a chance every so often to chain CB's and that doesnt even feel that good atm because they are missing that oomph. RB vs BD changes how we operate a little bit, but it boils down to the same thing, Chaos bolt spammage. Bring Shadowburn back as a baseline would be amazing so we can have an execute again. I just feel that destro lock is missing just one thing to pull it all together and Im not quite sure what it is. Possibly some change to incinerate to make it more interesting.

[Deleted]

I really miss Dark Souls. Anyone else with me on that boat?

Hell yeah, Dark soul would be great for destro and affliction, doomguard is so incredibly uninteresting for those two specs.

[Deleted]

Isn't it ironic that the Doomguard has an execute but affliction doesn't?

[Werst]

I think talent wise we need to pick between like/same. The shadowfury/howl/coil line was better design. Demon skin, pact, and the old dark bargain would make nice set of choices. Some amount of mobility needs to happen to be realistic given how mythic mechanics work beyond the individual. Same way I'd like to see portal, burning rush, and bring back demo leap (on a 30'ish sec cd), as mobility choices. Coil should heal always, interrupt if target is permanent horror/fear immune, and howl could be given a glyph to disorient vs fear thus making it useful. A baseline interrupt spell or at least bring back a demo sac perk while letting a FG axe toss work as an interrupt against stun immune.

Destro can't have single target with havoc. I would fix this two ways. First, CDF is non havoc, buffed hugely damage wise, and castable on the move. This also helps destro mobile damage without kjc'ing incinerate. Second is buffing chaos bolt 20-50% but cap the havoc'd version to take a 20-50% nerf. That should help get destro reasonable mid pack single target without breaking cleave. Shadowburn should be baseline with the talent letting us use it at any target HP. It should also have its damage scale with haste the way chaosbolt does from crit.

Demo needs a qol of pets lasting their unused dmg portion between pulls. I would like to see dank glare go full time, instant dread stalkers, and demo empowerment castable on the move...if we must keep this summon/empower short cycle play style. That or eliminate empowerment by baking the bonus into our mastery and let shadowbolt (lowest dpet in game if I recall) be mobile cast. More damage on demonwrath isn't out of line either.

Aff needs the most work but could be the most fun. Siphon life should be a damage/healing component of corruption. Seed need s a cast time reduction and to detonate on impact as qol. Either UA kickback needs a big bump back or it functions as a dispel shield...removing only the UA and leaving other magic effects untouched if no consensus can be reached on dispel direct penalty. On death gold traits can be changed to "on shard gain" and rebalanced that would be the logical choice. Effigy needs to be a 2 sec cast that just slams a single target only debuff into a target making dots tick 35-50% harder, tuning dependent. Also the first line needs a rework. I'd have haunt baseline with its cd reduced by haste, talent makes it instant and hit harder. Agony increases its damage by whatever % 10 vs 20 stacks really is and agony no longer ramps up being baseline. Drain soul is fine as is outside of maybe better art.

At some point even if you completely divorce numbers the specs should be fun most of the time. As invested as some people are they can't be as full of it and slow to act if they want to keep subs. I certainly am on the verge of quitting as it isn't fun. Even if I turn in a great parse so what if I didn't enjoy doing it? Locks have been a pretty tolerant lot for iffy playstyle impositions but the devs are creating a product few want. They should be trying for a class people would want to play more.

Is is fun to be so immobile you are always out of range of combat when your team engages or they wait for you to catch up like the fat kid in gym class? Is is so fun to need to run back (more slowly) need to summon a pet, drop stones, setup a gateway, and set up a portal, eat your food buff, etc each pull compared to what others do? Numbers always change but even the more successful locks work far harder for far less which doesn't encourage people to play either and pisses them off once they try and find out that is the case.

TLDR do your jobs better! The customers with years of loyalty don't enjoy your product. Get over your pride and *develop* a version of the product they do like.

[Tommy T]

Havoc is probably my favourite ability. I really hope they make wreak havoc baseline.

[Liarparadox]

As invested as some people are they can't be as full of it and slow to act if they want to keep subs. I certainly am on the verge of quitting as it isn't fun. Even if I turn in a great parse so what if I didn't enjoy doing it? Locks have been a pretty tolerant lot for iffy playstyle impositions but the devs are creating a product few want. They should be trying for a class people would want to play more.
TLDR do your jobs better! The customers with years of loyalty don't enjoy your product. Get over your pride and *develop* a version of the product they do like.

Yeah, this excuse they used about investment as a reason not to change stuff too much was pure BS. They gave that excuse at the very beginning of the xpac. I mean, people hadn't even invested much of anything at that point. And given how AK works, even now this is still very early. Balance has got to be priority. Fun has got to be priority. It is literally the first time since TBC that i'm considering not raiding because it just isn't fun. Our class feels unfinished. I'm hoping for QOL changes soon.

[Deleted]

So on slootbag stream the guy said they are gonna make DRAIN SOUL BASE LINE in Affliction thats just one of the " new " changes bla bla 7.1.5 but he didnt talk about destru or demo he just said we will have new " talents changes " to them and " or maybe " make some other talents BASELINE!! skeptical but atleast they acknowledge it

im pretty sure mana tap will get moved to another in destru or baseline!? dark soul :O