Why must everything be accessible?

[primalmatter]

Sorry is Blizzard removing your Mythics +?

They are just making a heroic version of mythic dungeons nothing is changing really.

[Lutris]

I feel to have this conversation we first need to make clear what "work" means, because gearing up through world quests is working for gear. Doing emissary dailies for legendaries is working for them. Leveling your artifact is working for it.

You just don't think it's the right kind of work. It's a misleading use of words, claiming that people "don't work for things anymore." when what you mean is "they don't work the way I want them to work for it."

I really like this post, it sums things up very succinctly.

Of course it is cheapened. I don't give a damn if others get to see my accomplishments or not. It's about accomplishing something that is hard, takes effort to do, and that can't be accessed any other way. In a way, it fulfills a yearning for exploration - I don't want the same ride any scrub can take, only slightly faster. There's plenty of safe safari rides in the zoo already, now let me into the actual lion cage.

Buddy, I'm really sorry to say but unless you're doing mythic raids in dungeon blues, you're not doing anything special or particularly skilled. Raid drops are for midcores to slowly overcome content well after the truly skilled players have finished competing in the world first race.

I guess you either missed whine about WoD LFR rewards or forgot about it

Don't be disingenuous, nobody wanted rewards on par with normal or higher raiding out of lfr, they just wanted to be able to access the fun trinket effects and set bonuses at a weaker level.

That "casuals" wanted lfr to hand out the same rewards as organised raiding is a lie you people tell yourselves and start to believe because you say it often enough.

So you want the same gear, mounts, tittles and achivements that those that put the effort to get them???

Please see the above.

The only problem with raiding at the moment is lfr. It's understandable that it was created when there was only heroic and normal, but now that we have flex in the form of normal and heroic I see no point in keeping lfr. Normal now is what lfr was supposed to be imo.

Then make normal queueable. Don't change the difficulty at all, just stick it in a queue.

Once you remove the queueable mode from the game, raid participation will drop like a rock and they won't be able to justify sinking most of their non-art budget into raids anymore. We saw stirrings of this during WoD with the trivialization of lfr.


@Emaias as an aside i just noticed your signature

You guys QQ about how bad Blizz's Development team is... DO you have ANY idea how hard it is to kill Brock's Onyx with a Pikachu?! Yeah GG Nintendo

You must be incredibly bad at pokemon if you struggled to defeat Brock's onix with a pikachu. Thunder wave, use tail whip twice, quick attack til dead. Hell if you really feel like putting some effort in, grind it to 15 and use double team til the onix can't even touch you.

[Team]

While I am inclined to agree entirely with you. It isn't a secret that there are far more casuals then "serious" players. But I guess what I don't understand is why people don't look forward to obtaining goals anymore? Like getting vials back in BC and finally being able to ENTER T6 raids was such a rush. That type of thing would NEVER exist today.

I agree with you and this isn't just exclusive to Blizzard, nearly every game is now focusing on casual-friendly stuff. This can be seen in other games where leveling is super fast compared to x number of years ago when it wasn't on THAT particular game.

Personally, I don't care if half the posters on this thread just do pet battles and feel satisfied - good for them. For me personally, it's always been a goal to do the 'hardest' stuff so I'll keep striving for that.

[Deleted]

But expecting me to drop down to your level is acceptable?

You defeat your own OP when you make BS questions like this.

[Traveler Voltin]

they said they are returning the 3 mythic only dungeons.
so probably normal mythic will become heroic and mythic(and mythic+) will be harder.

[Lynix]

My 2 cents here;

If a player would like to see all raid content for the expansion I have absolutely nothing against that, even if they aren't good players, I understand that some people don't have the skill level required to do mythic, heroic, and even normal in some cases and that's perfectly ok. I do not expect you to step up to my level, I do not expect you to miss out on the raid experience you have and above all I actually enjoy the idea of everyone seeing all the content.

HOWEVER!

What I don't agree with is this: Someone who only wants to do raid finder, not normal, not heroic and certainly not mythic should not be rewarded the same as those that do, do those higher difficulties. RF EN gear for example should be 840! No chance to upgrade. And honestly 840 should be the max world quest gear too. In fact, 840 should be the max item level you can obtain without stepping into a normal (not including crafted gear because that costs gold so if you have it, by all means).

[Vargas]

As with everything, people nowadays expect to get everything for free without doing anything for it, be it healthcare, an education or raid loot.

One of those things is not like the others, one of those things just doesn't belong.


I have a suggestion here, folks.

Hows about everyone here who gets so sore over the idea that people should be able to have access to a larger portion of the game (content that, by the way, they help fund the development of with their subscriptions and expansion pack purchases) have their accounts banned and their IP's blocked. That way they have to go outside and actually achieve something instead of pretending to be important/skilled in a video game where they use the latest hand-holding mods to get them through the game.

Seriously; stop acting like people should give a damn what you guys think or how you think people should play the game. You don't own their time. You guys want to tool around in M+ to prove that you aren't a worthless lump of skin (to who, I dunno; no one gives a shit what you do anyway) go right ahead; if people would rather play in heroic mode that's their right and if Blizzard decides to accommodate both who the fuck are you to complain?

People play WoW for different reasons. Some, for fun. Others because they enjoy the story. Others, apparently, because their sense of identity and self worth is tied into how well macroed their abilities are. Neither of those are inherently wrong; if its what you enjoy then its what you enjoy, but seriously this abuse of "oh they are entitled" is bullshit and a misuse of the word. Why the fuck should 90% of the playerbase fund the development of something 10% or less get to see? Hardcore raiders aren't worthy of that treatment; never have and never will be. Its not the casuals who are "entitled"; its the hardcores who need their egos stroked cause they have nothing else going on for them other than WoW. Fuck. That.

[Ryzael]

It's somewhat expected and implied that games have a difficulty setting which you can adjust, thus making it accessible.

And WoW doesn't. Instead of increasing difficulty, you just get higher scaled encounters that drop better equipment so you can pass more higher scaled encounters.
As long as you keep playing the encounters at your level and getting better equipment you will move onto the next higher level thing. Time = Progression, not Progression = Difficulty like most games.

[Tommi]

They should just get rid of gear and give you predefined stats for content. I mean, isn't the raidng all about skill? Make it similar to PvP predefined stats.
eg Dungeons:
Normal 800
Heroic 820
Mythic 840
Mythic+ scales with level of keystone

Raid:
Normal EN: 850
Heroic 860
Mythic 870

it's all about skill, right? Why do you need gear?

[Lynix]

One of those things is not like the others, one of those things just doesn't belong.


I have a suggestion here, folks.

Hows about everyone here who gets so sore over the idea that people should be able to have access to a larger portion of the game (content that, by the way, they help fund the development of with their subscriptions and expansion pack purchases) have their accounts banned and their IP's blocked. That way they have to go outside and actually achieve something instead of pretending to be important/skilled in a video game where they use the latest hand-holding mods to get them through the game.

Seriously; stop acting like people should give a damn what you guys think or how you think people should play the game. You don't own their time. You guys want to tool around in M+ to prove that you aren't a worthless lump of skin (to who, I dunno; no one gives a shit what you do anyway) go right ahead; if people would rather play in heroic mode that's their right and if Blizzard decides to accommodate both who the fuck are you to complain?

People play WoW for different reasons. Some, for fun. Others because they enjoy the story. Others, apparently, because their sense of identity and self worth is tied into how well macroed their abilities are. Neither of those are inherently wrong; if its what you enjoy then its what you enjoy, but seriously this abuse of "oh they are entitled" is bullshit and a misuse of the word. Why the fuck should 90% of the playerbase fund the development of something 10% or less get to see? Hardcore raiders aren't worthy of that treatment; never have and never will be. Its not the casuals who are "entitled"; its the hardcores who need their egos stroked cause they have nothing else going on for them other than WoW. Fuck. That.

Actually you're wrong.

People who who play to clear content play for the challenge because IT IS FUN for them. Now me personally, I don't think we should be keeping content from people. High level gear on the other hand, Yes, that should be limited by how you choose to play to play the game. If you're just playing for fun why does it matter if you get gear?

The fact is, some people actually like gearing their character in high level gear and I think the point a lot of these people are making is that there is no point raiding if I can get the same gear by taking a crap in a pond in azsuna because the nagas don't like it or something. I personally think that raid finder should drop blues, ever 840 blues, and world quests should do the same.

[Glorious Leader]

I should be grateful? For what exactly?

For the current crop of developers not throwing you and your spiritual brothers and sisters under the bus. Its not clear they can make everone happy. Guess who they can and should ignore?

[Grimnakh]

Some people are only happy if other people are unhappy. How does it affect you? Talk about petty things to be annoyed about.

[Lynix]

Some people are only happy if other people are unhappy. How does it affect you? Talk about petty things to be annoyed about.

It literally has nothing to do with that.

[Vichan]

They should just get rid of gear and give you predefined stats for content. I mean, isn't the raidng all about skill? Make it similar to PvP predefined stats.
eg Dungeons:
Normal 800
Heroic 820
Mythic 840
Mythic+ scales with level of keystone

Raid:
Normal EN: 850
Heroic 860
Mythic 870

it's all about skill, right? Why do you need gear?

I'd be fine with this, as long as i get to keep my transmogs

[Kul Tiras]

Now I'm already certain where this thread will go, but this is a serious question. Why must everything in WoW be accessible to EVERYONE? I just don't understand I think of it as a formula of sorts.

If you play this game for casual play and do not like group content, then you do not need to be able to get dungeon/raid gear or benefits.

If you play this game to raid and take down challenging content then you need the gear and you will in turn earn it, or at least work for it.

It seems on these forums A LOT of people have the mentality that as long as you buy a game you SHOULD be able to complete it in entirety no matter how much effort is expended. Would you simply prefer to login as soon as an expansion is launched and have vendors lined up with full BiS, titles, mounts, etc? So honestly I'd like to hear that side of the story.

Because people who had no lives 10 years ago now no longer have time/the wish to pay 20$/month to spend 90% of the time grinding sht?

Sorry you're still at such a sad stage in your life, many of us are trying to achieve higher aspirations in our lives, where the old model of WoW would simply not fit at all in our lives.

Enjoy playing on pre-BC nostalgia servers alongside your 5 other friends.

[Vichan]

The game has to be accessible, having 50% of the content locked away to 10% of the player base isn't good for any game

[Lynix]

Because people who had no lives 10 years ago now no longer have time/the wish to pay 20$/month to spend 90% of the time grinding sht?

Sorry you're still at such a sad stage in your life, many of us are trying to achieve higher aspirations in our lives, where the old model of WoW would simply not fit at all in our lives.

Enjoy playing on pre-BC nostalgia servers alongside your 5 other friends.

To be fair I work 7 days a week, have a kid, a partner, go to school part time and play overwatch regularly with a friend and I still manage to show up for raid every week with buff food and flasks and get enough done to stay ahead of the curb.

It's hardly our fault you have awful time management skills. Wow isn't some priority for me, my raid team knows that I'm busy and may not show up to every single raid if stuff gets crazy but ultimately We've still started mythics... How you ask? It's called not being terrible at the game honey.

[Traveler Voltin]

They should just get rid of gear and give you predefined stats for content. I mean, isn't the raidng all about skill? Make it similar to PvP predefined stats.
eg Dungeons:
Normal 800
Heroic 820
Mythic 840
Mythic+ scales with level of keystone

Raid:
Normal EN: 850
Heroic 860
Mythic 870

it's all about skill, right? Why do you need gear?

WoW is a rpg.
Gear is important.

[Kul Tiras]

To be fair I work 7 days a week, have a kid, a partner, go to school part time and play overwatch regularly with a friend and I still manage to show up for raid every week with buff food and flasks and get enough done to stay ahead of the curb.

It's hardly our fault you have awful time management skills. Wow isn't some priority for me, my raid team knows that I'm busy and may not show up to every single raid if stuff gets crazy but ultimately We've still started mythics... How you ask? It's called not being terrible at the game honey.

I love people who make up random outrageous assertions about themselves knowing full well none of us can verify that shit.

7 days a week with night classes and regular overwatch players as well as raider, ok baby, whatever you say.

[sabredragon]

The fact is, some people actually like gearing their character in high level gear and I think the point a lot of these people are making is that there is no point raiding if I can get the same gear by taking a crap in a pond in azsuna because the nagas don't like it or something. I personally think that raid finder should drop blues, ever 840 blues, and world quests should do the same.

I don't understand this. I'm 860 average ilevel across all of my specs--mostly because I do casual heroic raiding. My alt is only 845 because I haven't really put any effort into her. I see things that are 840-845 from World Quests on my main, and 820-825 on my alt, and I don't get upgraded pieces all too often. I don't really see how the possibility of getting pieces of gear from World Quests that is generally 20~ ilevel lower than your gear (from what I've seen across my characters) with a slim chance of upgrading to a higher level (generally not more than 10 ilevel) is really a problem.

Fact is, people are going to gear up faster by actually doing instanced content than if they were just relying on World Quests. You're not going to get all of your pieces to titanforge from WQ and get a nice upgrade unless you're extremely lucky--and that's maybe just for one or two pieces. There really isn't a problem with this system, since it may encourage people who want better gear to actually dip their toes into instanced content instead of waiting to get lucky.