Community-Driven Feedback for 7.1.5

[Rioo]

The movement row needs to be redone for guardians. Roar is the obvious choice but it feels really bad to not have charge since we're so slow. My suggestion for the row:

1. Keep roar talent.
2. Have charge baseline, and instead make the talent improve it. Make it generate some rage, make forms have seperate CDs for their charge or something.
3. Keep displacer beast replacing charge, make you stay in whatever form you used it in though.

I think I would use all 3 talents then.

[Seditian]

I actually play it for dungeons/soloing, but no, I don't raid as it at all (though you could word it a bit nicer, FYI lol)

Which I agree with, but due to me not raiding/maining Guardian, I didn't want to make a false assumption. I've never taken off GG since its existence.

Like I said, I only solo as Guardian, and I also PvP with it, so it's a non-option for me, especially when going from high-to-low elevations. In raiding, yeah, I see Guttural being way better, Wild Charge also being remotely useful though not as much.

Oh and I agree with Wild Charge being baseline at least for Guardian. I have Overrun for PvP and it's just amazing (and shares a CD with Wild Charge, lol) to have a charge (that also stuns and knockbacks) on such a short cooldown.

Yeah, my bad. Most Guardians (well, anyone who has it as their main spec really) complained about just that thing you posted. Being, Swipe > Moonfire, which was indeed ridiculous. Lucky for us it's fixed with 7.1.

I solely use Lunar Beam on 9+ and lower. It's way too good for dps. Even on raids with trivial mechanics, normal, heroic, farm mythic bosses I use lunar beam. Saying R&T is king, is blatantly simplifying the problem. It's good on long fights. It's nowhere near as strong as lunar beam on short ones. Pulverize doesn't exist btw. I can't physically activate the talent. probably bugged. *sarcrasm*

Yeah I should've worded that part a bit differently. It's very good on most affix weeks in m+, I haven't used R&T in a while now actually. I only use it on +10's with Tyrannical. Still though, for raids, unless like in your case the content is on farm already, it's a non-choice. And once you're getting into "serious" mythic levels, you can't really go with Lunar Beam either.

Oh and I haven't activated Pulverize since uhhh, ever. Literally. My Druid is about 10 months old and I loved the feel of 100% dodge chance way more back in HFC.

[Cyous]

Balance Suggestions:
-- Echoing Stars applies Moonfire to targets afflicted by the bounce.
-- Sunblind effects Lunar Strike
-- (a) Fury of Elune cost increased to 10/tick (up from 6/tick). Damage increased by 75%.
-- (b) Fury of Elune no longer drains ASP, but instead costs 20-100 Astral Power. Consumes all remaining Astral Power. Lasts 1sec seconds per 5 points of Astral Power consumed (Max: 20sec).
-- Lunar Strike spalsh damage inhereits primary target's crit chance (if LS crits, they all crit).
-- New Moon and Half Moon use AOE Splash exactly like Full Moon. In addition, all spells no longer "Meteor", then do 50% of damage to nearby targets.
-- 4pc bonus :: Lunar Strike and Solar Wrath critical strikes have a 10% chance to make your next Starfall cost no Astral Power.

[Comfort]

I can't say I agree with the burst healing from resto druid. Looking at your further posts on the topic you start to mention mythic + where it is a problem and I can say out of the healers I have played I have the easiest time with this as a druid with hots, decent mastery + ghanir, tranq alone is powerful.
I would think anyone struggling probably isn't experienced enough in the dungeons to prepare for the damage.

With the way you have described some of the tool kit also it sounds like you might play re-actively rather than pro-actively and that just doesn't work well in higher m+ or most harder content. (This is just an assumption made from reading your previous posts mentioning WG, I could be wrong).

[stevejohnson922]

why do you like it so much

[cathysullivan91]

im so fkn depressed

[tasaivan1994]

lately ive been hard to reach

[dcc626]

Guardian:

6. Lastly, our damage still sucks. Would love to see this addressed.

so you really believe this? obviously our aoe damage is good, what is good single target damage to you?

[Seditian]

so you really believe this? obviously our aoe damage is good, what is good single target damage to you?

Our damage is one of the best, but for single-target we can get close/on top if we use DPS trinkets and Catweave, but that sacrifices a ton of survivability obviously. I don't have a whole lot of in-depth knowledge about other tanks, and I'm assuming most of them are also using DPS trinkets to increase their DPS. That being said, Catweaving especially can be fairly hard (relatively) and it's bordering meter padding. Eh who am I kidding, it is meter padding. Not useless meter padding, but let's be real here, the highest DPS Guardian Druids let the other tank deal with the boss at least 70% of the time, more if possible. Just to keep Catweaving as much as possible.

I'm not saying it's necessarily a bad thing because well, Catweaving is definitely one of those things that you can categorize under high-risk high-reward thing. But Maul at the very least could use a boost/rework. Imo Catweaving should net a 10-15% damage increase, not a 25-30% damage increase.

[Nevcairiel]

Weak excuse. An AoE shouldn't be a filler for single target.

Moonfire in concept isn't a single target nuke (unless GG procs, which is fine), its a dot with small initial damage. As such, I wouldn't be very happy to constantly spam moonfire. It would also make GG rather pointless as you keep spamming MF anyway, so if it procs its just randomly more damage, instead of you actually pushing a button outside of the rotation.

Personally, I don't see a big problem with Swipe being a filler at all. Sure its AoE, but why does that matter?

so you really believe this? obviously our aoe damage is good, what is good single target damage to you?

I think our single target damage is fine. I can constantly out dps the DH I tank with in raids by a rather large margin, especially after 7.1 with improved GG, and I'm not even catweaving or using DPS trinkets at this point. Which tanks are supposedly the huge damage monsters?

Even more so, if I look at the damage statistics (mythic, 80th percentile) for typical single target bosses like Nythendra or Ursoc, Guardians are up on the statistics over at WCL, basically tied with Paladin. Even beyond that, if I look at every boss in EN, we're still most of the time #1 in damage, at most #2.

[Vayero]

I havent played boomie that long, but even tho i still can play him at high level (80-96% phases).
In dungs, balance is fine. The build up takes a bit but we have tons of utility to cover our lack of damage.
In raids, balance is lacking damage. You can see that clearly on logs, almost every class does more damage then a Balance druid.

My ideas are:
Starfall needs some tweaks, either increase the damage by alot, or decrease the cost.
Starsurge could also cost 40-45 AP.
And i would LOVE to stack mastery on my chicken rather then haste.
FoE is !imo! useless and i hate it. This talent needs a complete ourhaul or replacement
I would also like to use Stellar Flare more then i do now. Maybe make it instant cast? Cast time but no AP cost?

Other then that, i absolutly love my huge ass chicken and hope for some changes

[Bearshield]

Perhaps it's something I'm doing then, because my single target damage (in bear) seems extremely low to me. On the other hand, I still believe the across the board tank dmg nerfs earlier this expansion were unnecessary (and this is speaking for all tanks, not just bear). I'm not including bearcat dmg in this, because it's not something I am always able to do for any significant amount of time.

On the subject of today's watered-down bearcatting though, I have yet to see anywhere near a 20-25% increase in my damage from using it. My understanding of the playstyle, is essentially to play as I would as feral until my energy is gone, then return to bear to let it refill, and rinse, repeat. I am not currently gearing for dps though and I typically do not have a significant amount of time to stay in cat form. I am curious though, somewhere on these forums I read that your Rip/Rake tick for less when you leave cat form. Is this true?

[Seditian]

Perhaps it's something I'm doing then, because my single target damage (in bear) seems extremely low to me. On the other hand, I still believe the across the board tank dmg nerfs earlier this expansion were unnecessary (and this is speaking for all tanks, not just bear). I'm not including bearcat dmg in this, because it's not something I am always able to do for any significant amount of time.

On the subject of today's watered-down bearcatting though, I have yet to see anywhere near a 20-25% increase in my damage from using it. My understanding of the playstyle, is essentially to play as I would as feral until my energy is gone, then return to bear to let it refill, and rinse, repeat. I am not currently gearing for dps though and I typically do not have a significant amount of time to stay in cat form. I am curious though, somewhere on these forums I read that your Rip/Rake tick for less when you leave cat form. Is this true?

Not sure honestly about your last question. As for the rotation, it should be close (or perfect) to this: Bear Form -> Maul -> Thrash -> Maul -> Mangle -> Cat Form -> Rake -> Shred -> Shred (or as third cast Rip if your second cast got you to 5CP) -> Bear Form -> repeat, forever. That was before the GG changes but I don't think that changes anything.

[Deleted]

I want boomies to have SPREAD aoe again - increase its yards to 100 if you've to but limit it to targets who are only dotted.

Spread Aoe is removed from the game so its sad.

[Polarthief]

Guardian:

1. I agree with the others who suggested Wild Charge baseline. Should have been done two expansions ago as it has ALWAYS been an important part of the Bear spec.
2. We need a ranged silence ability, preferably one with a high threat component to it. It's ridiculous that if an add spawns at range and a Hunter shoots it first, I can literally spam Moonfire and not pull it off of him without a taunt. Heaven forbid it's a caster, I'll be ping-ponging between it and the mobs I'm on till it gets there.
3. The Affinities are a joke. Druids hybridity was completely removed and split into talents that are virtually useless, save for the minor bonuses you get from them. They need to either eliminate them completely and just give us back what we had before or make them actually do enough damage/healing to warrant their use. Don't want us milking Bearcat again? Don't make fights where only one tank is required for long periods of time.
4. Fix Maul, give us a reason to use it again.
5. Incapacitating Roar is still garbage, give us some real utility.
6. Lastly, our damage still sucks. Would love to see this addressed.

1. Mmhmm, would be nice.
2. That's more a problem with Guardian threat tbh. It's been low since 7.0.3.
3. I like the affinities, but they were a bit fucked up. I do enjoy doing decent DPS as Resto though!
4. YES.
5&6. No comment.

- full moon should do full damage to all target, so we have some sort of burst aoe damage

For PvE, I won't disagree, but it might be a tad OP.

ST :
- emerald dreamcatcher is mandatory, rotation is interesting with it, boring without.

That legendary needs to be toned down and Starsurge should be 30 AsP baseline.

Talents :
- natures balance should be baseline

Would be nice, but not really needed. That said, it is rather lackluster for our penultimate talent.

Yeah, my bad. Most Guardians (well, anyone who has it as their main spec really) complained about just that thing you posted. Being, Swipe > Moonfire, which was indeed ridiculous. Lucky for us it's fixed with 7.1.

S'all good! I'm not claiming to know Guardian (let alone Druid) inside and out, especially when I just main-swapped to it in 7.0.3, but I will claim to know I at least know a handful of things when it comes to Boomkin/Resto, which is why those lists are significantly longer.

I can't say I agree with the burst healing from resto druid. Looking at your further posts on the topic you start to mention mythic + where it is a problem and I can say out of the healers I have played I have the easiest time with this as a druid with hots, decent mastery + ghanir, tranq alone is powerful.
I would think anyone struggling probably isn't experienced enough in the dungeons to prepare for the damage.

With the way you have described some of the tool kit also it sounds like you might play re-actively rather than pro-actively and that just doesn't work well in higher m+ or most harder content. (This is just an assumption made from reading your previous posts mentioning WG, I could be wrong).

It's a rather good assumption and I will admit that maining a healer is new to me, so yeah I do play Reactively at times, but at the same time, even when I play Proactively and I have Rejuvs on everyone + Cultivation procs, a WG + rolling HoTs doesn't always pick people up enough (even with SotF and G'hanir). As many have pointed out, having a Bloom would be a perfect "oh shit" extra burst tool which would also come at the price of losing your Efflorescence Mushroom (and probably costing additional mana to burst it), so you don't want to be spamming this thing constantly.

Moonfire in concept isn't a single target nuke (unless GG procs, which is fine), its a dot with small initial damage. As such, I wouldn't be very happy to constantly spam moonfire. It would also make GG rather pointless as you keep spamming MF anyway, so if it procs its just randomly more damage, instead of you actually pushing a button outside of the rotation.

Personally, I don't see a big problem with Swipe being a filler at all. Sure its AoE, but why does that matter?

It is a very minor point for sure, but it just feels awkward to use Swipe as a filler. Maybe if Maul wasn't so useless and became a ST filler button instead

[Tiberria]

Saying Resto Druids lack good legendaries is really kind of silly. We probably have some of the stronger legendaries relative to other healing specs.

- Tearstone is incredibly strong. It essentially buffs the throughput of every WG cast by about 40% - and that's only including the 1.2 extra Rejuv applications per cast. When you also factor in the mastery gains (every target it procs on will have an automatic 2 applications) and the synergy with Cultivation (i.e. WG picks lowest HP targets, meaning that a good chunk of your Tearstone procs will be on <60% HP targets that get WG, Rejuv and Cult at once), it's more throughput than that. Even when it procs on targets with Rejuv already on them, resetting the duration is hardly useless (if you reset a Rejuv with 5 seconds left, you are still getting 13 more seconds for free). It also synergizes with Germination (i.e. puts a Germination up if there is already a Rejuv or vice versa) if you take Germination (which you probably will if you're talking about a 5 man). Even the Dreamwalker complaint is kind of silly, the Rejuv it puts up still lasts 18 seconds, and will likely still be up for your next WG thus helping with Dreamwalker healing.
- The Tranq boots are extremely strong especially on progression. It potentially makes your Tranq heal for 50% more during critical situations. That makes it god mode when it actually matters. You can get great use of this if you take Inner Peace and are able to leverage getting good Tranq placements in your raid CD rotation (and your raid will want to take advantage of it because Tranq with the raid at low health with this legendary shits all over any other raid CD).
- The Swiftmend bracers are also - very good. If you take Cenarion Ward (and you pretty much have to with that legendary), the CD of Swiftmend lines up with the CD of Cenarion Ward every time, meaning that you get an 18 second CW every time instead of an 8 second one. Considering that CW accounts for 5-6% of my healing in raids typically even without the legendary, this alone is easily a 5%+ throughput boost - even without factoring in the other HoTs you extend.
- Prydaz is also much stronger than people give it credit for. It will give you 3-4% extra healing from the absorb effect on most fights. Sure, the self healing isn't the most meaningful thing always, but it's still healing that you or other healers don't have to use GCDs and mana on doing, and still improves your survivability on progression.

I will admit that the other 4 legendaries Resto can get are mediocre to bad, but 4 strong legendaries is not terrible.

As far as Resto, I honestly think the toolkit is fine. Every talent has its uses. The only ones that probably need to be re-evaluated are Prosperity and Moment of Clarity. Every other talent has its niche and is something I have used at one point or another. Even the affinity row is mostly fine for Resto; take Feral if you need more movement speed or want to do DPS during chunks of a fight, take Guardian as a default otherwise, and take Balance to help solve some fight range issues. I don't know how they can really fix Prosperity to be viable; Cenarion Ward is better than it in almost every way if you want more single target healing. Moment of Clarity probably needs to affect spells other than Regrowth in some way to be a compelling alternative to Flourish.

For the overall class, I think it would make the most sense to make Innervate and Stampeding Roar baseline across all 4 specs if they are going down the route of putting back in some of the class defining utility they stripped out like they indicated. They may also want to consider making Displacer Beast baseline for all specs (since it is close to the default choice anyway), and turning L30 into another CC type row. Maybe put stuff like Ursol's Vortex and Typhoon back out on that talent row.

[ryklin]

yeah it's much more that most healer legendaries are kind of mediocre

like monks have 2-2.5min revival cd and the rng pants, they were probably 1st before the weird overhealing one got fixed, but now I'd say middle with droods and pallies

resto shamans have the chain heal ring and link/tide duration, probably 6th

disc has the penance reset belt and the small penance heal everyone in barrier one, which are also kind of on the low end really, the penance one might get better and better with more gear though, I'm probably underrating it, but I'd say 5th

holy has the self-rezz on spirit of redemption which is far and away the best healer one really, and the haste at high hp one and the pre-charge holy word one, I'd give them 1st just because of how game-breking having an ankh/30s innervate is

paladins have a lot of odd utility, the judgement buffs healing by 20% (pretty high up if used well with lotd, but even then not too insane), and the self-healing one for meter padding, kind of in the middle with drood and monk

droods have the wild growth ring and then tranq healing, and pre-hotting which are all pretty effective in raiding really, and honestly the wild growth ring is like 10-20 free rejuvs over a fight and that's pretty damn good, so I'd say tied with pally and monk


even then though, that's ranking off the best ones, more realistically, the majority of players are just going have w/e ones, and because honestly the all-class shield neck performs better on meters than a lot of healing ones, despite non-targettable healing not being that great, I think healers just need more exciting legendaries overall, since there's basically like the revival and holy priest ankh one and that's kind of it for the INSANE ones

[dcc626]

Perhaps it's something I'm doing then, because my single target damage (in bear) seems extremely low to me. On the other hand, I still believe the across the board tank dmg nerfs earlier this expansion were unnecessary (and this is speaking for all tanks, not just bear). I'm not including bearcat dmg in this, because it's not something I am always able to do for any significant amount of time.

at least for me, it depends. i berarcat on nythendra (a bit) and pull around 180k, and heroic ursoc in strictly bear i pull 170kish. to me thats really pretty decent.

[Selerian]

Guardian damage is perfectly fine, especially if you bearcat, most of the time I'm higher than many of my dpsers (who are admittedly pretty crap obviously). Last Nythendra I sat at 229k which is pretty sweet (a bit too sweet tbh, I often get carried away and find myself whoring for dmg, instead of playing it safe).

My personal list:
-They need to add threat modifiers on some abilities, our current threat generation is seriously lackluster.
-Affinities feel pretty underwhelming, unless you're bearcat'ing (it's the only choice that has an actual impact on your gameplay).
-Maul
-I am not satisfied with Mark of Ursol. Underwhelming for its cost.
-Incap roar is total crap and only works as an interrupt for casters in Mythic+ (which if you combine with balance affinity can be a serious source of asspulling and wiping).
-Seriously Maul

Overall though I think bears are probably top 2 tanks atm considering both raids and mythics+.

[Purpleisbetter]

Almost literally everyone here complained about:

MAUL and no baseline Charge. Maul makes me want to go into EN mythic and suicide myself 1v1 against Xavius.

I also dislike Savage Roar so much that when i pla with Jagged Wounds i feel the urge to swap to Guardian and go mauling Xavius on Mythic 1v1.