How did you find Karazhan?

[Brickwalls]

Too much trash for my tastes but otherwise fun.

Probably wont mess with it too much because until Blizzard figures out a method to make trash feel less ... trashy, then I'm not interested.

[drukai]

It's numerically slightly overtuned - but mechanically I feel like it's in a perfectly fantastic place.

Maiden is a great example here because of how essentially straight forward she is.

Lets assume that our players are decent players and understand the spreading out mechanics and the stun segment.

Nothing about her is undoable, but the numbers are a little high when you consider the rewards.

For her repentance segment - assuming all 5 players get one stack of the debuff, your healer needs to mitigate or heal approximately 12 million damage over 16 seconds.

Then - assuming each player breaks the stun within 1 second, your 3 DPS and tank each need to put out an absolute bare minimum of 130k dps over the next 10 seconds - which is a pretty easy breakpoint.

Where it gets harder is when we look at her health pool and the fact that Maiden will likely have at least 2 repentance phases. Again, the DPS numbers aren't the chokepoint, what is the chokepoint is keeping the party up enough to meet that dps requirement. Remember, we are assuming that no one is getting cleaved by the Holy Bolt, Holy Shock is getting kicked perfectly, pools are all really well placed, and the party is only getting 1 stack of the DoT each cycle - not counting the basic tank damage - it's not unlikely that a healer geared for the content (rather than above the content) will be out of mana if a third repentance hits... which it will if your party is at gear level.

Of course there are some tactics to work around it with (I personally like to get my DoT as early as possible so that during the cast phase the healer can essentially ignore me through it.)

[procne]

For her repentance segment - assuming all 5 players get one stack of the debuff, your healer needs to mitigate or heal approximately 12 million damage over 16 seconds.

Not really.

1. assuming people are topped before taking debuff, and that they have over 2 million health each, it's enough if the healers heals around 600k from everyone to stop them from dying. Plus the damage from the boss after she's interrupted
2. some people can take debuff earlier so that it ends shortly after repentance, extending the overall damage more over time.

[Fenzha]

Did a clear yesterday and oh how i regret the group having the description saying it would be a slow, chill run. 5 hours later the last boss finally fell...

The pug was 845-855 with almost everyone new to anything past the first couple bosses. If the group wasn't labelled as it was when it formed i may have tried to kick people several times throughout. Took the healer almost an hour to get the dispel mechanic right on Attumen.

Ofcourse it will be better with people who aren't new to the place (or bad^) but i still maintain that it is a little too highly tuned for people going in there at the appropriate ilvl.

[arieals]

Feels a little overtuned in regards to Ilvl needed vs Ilvl rewarded, specially when you try to pug it

[mistahwilshire]

I'm insanely surprised about all the votes for overtuned. It was way way too easy and a letdown because of it. Can't wait for the + version.

Then again a lot of you are probably the same people that have always demanded 835-840 for Mythic1 when it's tuned for 810.

[Deleted]

i love kara, amazing 5man, also have to credit blizz for the amount of detail they put in, very nice work !!!

[Deleted]

I'm insanely surprised about all the votes for overtuned. It was way way too easy and a letdown because of it. Can't wait for the + version.

Then again a lot of you are probably the same people that have always demanded 835-840 for Mythic1 when it's tuned for 810.

If they're tuned for 810, why did the PTR scale Karazhan to 845?

[Dsc]

Well done overall.

Undergeared, you won't pass the DPS mechanics/reqs

If you are High 840's-860 You will clear with maybe a few hiccups and find upgrades.

If your group is 860-870+ and can manage basic mechanics, it's a sightseeing tour. You might get a goodie off of Nightbane

Perfectly tuned.

[Nikkaszal]

I'm insanely surprised about all the votes for overtuned. It was way way too easy and a letdown because of it. Can't wait for the + version.

Then again a lot of you are probably the same people that have always demanded 835-840 for Mythic1 when it's tuned for 810.

Bullshit, HEROIC is tuned for 810, Myth 1 is tuned for 830 (gear from Heroic)

[Hobb]

Kara is fun, but way overtuned. And also too long for most pugs to put the time into.

Blizz splitting into two separate area come 7.1.5 is a step in the right direction.

[Wondercrab]

Overall I really adored Karazhan. The gear it drops could probably stand to be five item levels higher or so, but at the same time the gear tuning suggests that they want it to be doable, but very hard for ~850 groups. It's actually a pretty good example of a dungeon being designed in a way that offers a good challenge to people who have a broad variety of item levels, since everything is so mechanics-based. I kind of wish that the gear checks on Maiden/Moroes were a little more lenient, since they'll just be a brick wall to many players at lower item levels, but other than that you can deal with most other bosses without very good gear so long as your execution of the mechanics is good. Similarly, people will high item levels still have to pay attention to things and play the fights as intended, since there's a lot of stuff that can't realistically be overgeared.

I'd really like to see more new dungeons designed like this in the future, with relatively low requirements in terms of DPS/healing so long as the group deals with mechanics well.

[Dasani]

As a mythic raider, I don't even look at rewards and item levels from dungeons because they'll never compete with mythic raids except for a few funky trinkets here or there with unusual properties that make them end up being better. So I don't even know what kara drops.

However I found the instance just fine. In fact, i'd argue it's on the easy side. I mean i've done the nightbane run dozens of times at this point selling the mount and during the run you pull every mob from the start to the first boss... and it's trivial. Tons of mobs, easy to kill, totally non-threatening. Then you pull 3-5 groups at a time for the rest of the run all at once, still very easy to survive and get through. I mean the ushers are potentially dangerous I guess if everyone in your group is an idiot and doesn't know how to turn away during flashlight? But if you are capable of learning mechanics and knowing what they do and responding accordingly, the instance is very easy. We kill moroes without any CC at all without any problems, but even if you're in a group of shitters you have the option to CC every single add and fight them all 1 on 1.

All the boss mechanics are simple. Nearly all damage is avoidable or able to be removed/mitigated in some way. There are no 1-shot mechanics, there is no overwhelming damage, and so on.

Hardest boss in the instance by far is nightbane himself and my team has killed him on our shittiest alts with ilevels around 840.

So no, I don't believe the instance is overtuned. I think the problem some people might suffer from is mechanics. Kara is treated more like a 5-man raid than a dungeon and the bosses have actual mechanics you have to know and respect to get through it, you can't just ignore them and half ass your way through it like you do normal 5-mans. Any team that is used to dealing with raid mechanics should get through there trivially but if you're a casual LFR player who doesn't know anything about anything then yeah you're gonna struggle.

And that is fine. Kara is perfectly tuned IMO, just requires a little skill and to treat it more like a tiny raid.

- - - Updated - - -

Too much trash for my tastes but otherwise fun.

Probably wont mess with it too much because until Blizzard figures out a method to make trash feel less ... trashy, then I'm not interested.

Just pull all of it at once. The trash is very non-threatening and makes the run actually a lot more fun to do pulling heaps of little trash mobs as opposed to 2-3 bigger, stronger trash mobs. You mob them up so quickly and tear through them like butter. It makes for a much faster run overall.

It's a throwback to old karazhan, it isn't like modern, current crap that has 3 pulls between bosses in a 3 boss dungeon made for bite sized gameplay segments aimed for casuals. But you can miss out if you want, I love kara and I love all the money it's made me so far. Made nearly another million gold so far with nightbane mount carries.

[niirb]

I really enjoyed Khara. I did it with a group of guildies and we had an average ilevel of 845-850 when we started the run. We got into a chokepoint at the curator tho, and rightly so as he is the "entering the second part of the instance boss" and we wiped over 8 times there. Called it a night and tried to do him again the next day. Really the whole experience had a really good atmosphere and some of the bosses were really fun (the last one, we agreed unanimously, was one of the best 5man bosses ever). Took us 4 days of sessions that lasted from 1 - 3 hours so for us it really did feel like a 5man raid (mind you we are horrible players and we went in without reading any tactics).

What I hope is, when they "split", the dungeon that the split will only be for heroic and mythic+. Say if you throw in a m+ keystone for the second part you will be thrown at the second part of the instance with the passage blocked off. Same for heroic. So when you will enter mythic +0 this will still be a large dungeon that awaits you.

I personally think this is my favorite piece of content in quite a while.

[Dinousek]

Easy - i looked on the map.

[Tech Priest Bojangles]

CC the Moroes adds and kill them one by one. Pretty simple, really. I did it with two melee DPS.

I hope you realize you can CC the adds in the Moroes encounter? There's even free traps to pick up after killing the add holding up the Ghostbusters.

Yeah no shit.
The whirlwind guy is retarded for a melee group, which is what I was talking about.
If you CC them all and burn one at a time, Garrote kills everyone. Two at a time only works when certain adds are up.

[apples]

i flew there from stormwind

[lucred]

For anyone having melee trouble on Curator: If everyone stacks up on the tank, the adds will land next to the melee, kill them in under 10 seconds and there is no charge so stacking does not hurt you there, and with a stacked group all the pools are in one spot so everyone just moves in a predetermined pattern and you have no issues with ground coverage. Melee group I ran with wiped several times, but second try with the stack strategy we finished it easily.

Edit: And yes, Rafe Dreugar is REALLY nasty for melee if he chain casts iron whirlwind.

[Nikkaszal]

Yeah no shit.
The whirlwind guy is retarded for a melee group, which is what I was talking about.
If you CC them all and burn one at a time, Garrote kills everyone. Two at a time only works when certain adds are up.

If you are in a melee group, just kill him first with hard DPS while eating his whirlwind. He should die within one WW cycle, because everyones CDs and trinkets are popped

Your healer can heal through it because there are no Garottes out yet. Apart from tank damage, there is nothing else hurting you.

We've done one-at-a-time each week so far, with zero problems from our healer. Week 2 we had 3 melee, and did exactly what I said above. It's still simple.

[Deefame]

It's too long. 5man's shouldn't take 3 hours on first clear with overgeared people. I finished it once and never looked back.