How can someone pick Altruis over Kayn?

[Eazy]

Because he's one of the first DH in the WoW, and he's badass(was in TBC).

[Deleted]

It's important for the 2nd in command to be able to give alternative suggestions, we dont want the illidari to be one big circlejerk.

[FelPlague]

But wasn't Akama's duplicity hardly surprising?

lololol, hew knew akama might, but allmost ALL of the ashtounge? he thought atleast they would understand
and a small amount did (those who left to help the demon hunters take maduum)

[Friendlyimmolation]

It's important for the 2nd in command to be able to give alternative suggestions, we dont want the illidari to be one big circlejerk.

But when the 2nd in command doesn't give recommendations, and actively works to kill you if he starts to disagree with you...

[Koryn123]

Really? Night elves definately just look better as demon hunters, honestly... While I have a belf DH, and I prefer belf DH, Nelf just has more style points, and the horns look better with their ears, especially the goaty ones.

I vote for Kayn because he's just a better choice if you want to play after the Demon Hunters as they are, when they are; not sympathetic to Altruis' cause. Of course there could be some outliers, but then there should be an indication of it, rather than just Altruis being the only one with a stick up his arse about Illidans leadership...

Exactly. For those who like the demon hunters as what they are and always have been: people who don't mind getting their hands dirty to get the job done and don't turn away with an upset tummy at the first sight of something unpleasant, Kayn is the best choice.

For those who only want to look like a demon hunter but actually be a lawful good human paladin in a demon hunter's body spouting ambitious philosophical mumbo jumbo that doesn't actually work in real life because those tactics would get you and everyone you love destroyed by the Legion, Altruis is the choice.

[Zulkhan]

But when the 2nd in command doesn't give recommendations, and actively works to kill you if he starts to disagree with you...

In Altruis' defense, Illidan didn't look perfectly sane and reasonable. Maybe we can pretend that with our PCs as leaders he wouldn't be that prone to plot our demise before actually arguing the subject.

- - - Updated - - -

For those who only want to look like a demon hunter but actually be a lawful good human paladin in a demon hunter's body spouting ambitious philosophical mumbo jumbo that doesn't actually work in real life because those tactics would get you and everyone you love destroyed by the Legion, Altruis is the choice.

Well, actually are Demon Hunters that constantly blabber about sacrifice and shit, even though Illidan always seemed ready to sacrifice everything but himself or his great unrequited love. Because that's the funny point. The whole reason why Illidan maintained a shred of humanity is Tyrande. It's because of her that he does what he does. Which means that he would never be willing to sacrifice Tyrande herself to fight the Legion, even if the sacrifice of one would guarantee the safety of billions.

[Qualia]

Well, actually are Demon Hunters that constantly blabber about sacrifice and shit, even though Illidan always seemed ready to sacrifice everything but himself or his great unrequited love. Because that's the funny point. The whole reason why Illidan maintained a shred of humanity is Tyrande. It's because of her that he does what he does. Which means that he would never be willing to sacrifice Tyrande herself to fight the Legion, even if the sacrifice of one would guarantee the safety of billions.

To be fair - has there even any situation that called for him to sacrifice himself, or Tyrande? It's not like every lives weight the same to each individual - surely, something / someone more valuable shouldn't be sacrificed for a meager gain. How do we know that Illidan would never sacrifice Tyrande if, for example, he can defeat KJ / Sargeras by doing that?

As of sacrificing himself - for all we know from "Illidan", it's not like Illidan never thought of dying for his plans. For example, Illidan wasn't entirely sure if he and his DHs could defeat KJ, yet he was ready to assault him together with his troops. He wanted to go with the DHs to Mar'duun, yet he decided to stay behind to hold the way open for the DHs to return - knowing full well that it means he would not live to see the result. If he wasn't up to sacrificing himself, I'd expect him to take care of his life much better than that.

[Zulkhan]

How do we know that Illidan would never sacrifice Tyrande if, for example, he can defeat KJ / Sargeras by doing that?

Because that's the literal core of his characterization. The only reason for someone like him to do what he does is Tyrande, it's the only motivation he has and the only thing that forced him to struggle. He has pretty much nothing left to fight for once she is gone. The universe could very much burn at that point for him.

As of sacrificing himself - for all we know from "Illidan", it's not like Illidan never thought of dying for his plans. For example, Illidan wasn't entirely sure if he and his DHs could defeat KJ, yet he was ready to assault him together with his troops. He wanted to go with the DHs to Mar'duun, yet he decided to stay behind to hold the way open for the DHs to return - knowing full well that it means he would not live to see the result. If he wasn't up to sacrificing himself, I'd expect him to take care of his life much better than that.

I say there's a difference between taking necessary risks and outright sacrificing themselves. Not like there was ever a situation literally demanding that, but I'm gonna bet that he's just way too self-centered to conceive the idea. Maybe that's exactly what will change in Legion, I guess.

[Halyon]

Well, actually are Demon Hunters that constantly blabber about sacrifice and shit, even though Illidan always seemed ready to sacrifice everything but himself or his great unrequited love. Because that's the funny point. The whole reason why Illidan maintained a shred of humanity is Tyrande. It's because of her that he does what he does. Which means that he would never be willing to sacrifice Tyrande herself to fight the Legion, even if the sacrifice of one would guarantee the safety of billions.

Not wanting to, and being unwilling to, are two different things. He might sacrifice her, but most likely not without sacrificing himself along with her though, but he would do it.

Same for other demon hunters. Maybe they have someone they care about that they'd put before themselves, I'd say that'd be sensible actually, given their positions, and their training, mentality, lore, etc. But I doubt that, bar Azeroth as it is, would be off limits to sacrifice to end the Burning Legion for good.

With that said, Illidan is the leader of the Demon Hunters, so if he has some reservations about avoiding certain sacrifices unless the situation cannot be solved without them, is his prerogative, and kindof expected of the figurehead... You know kinda why you don't send the world leaders into war, you send the generals and soldiers, because they rely on said leadership not dying until it's absolutely neccessary.

[Bigbazz]

I picked Altruis because I remember him from Nagrand.

[Molvonos]

The thing that pisses me off the most about picking Kayn (because fuck Altrius, the emo bitch) is that I ended up with Shade of Akama instead of Akama. Like, seriously? I'd have chosen Altrius and left him in a hole somewhere just to get Akama.

[willtron]

The people who pick Altruis are the same people that don't show their tattoos, use no blindfold and use least DH looking transmog possible. Basically, anyone who doesn't actually know what it means to be a Demon Hunter.

That's funny, because that's exactly what I did. Tried to get as far away from the edgelord look as possible and just use the basic black dungeon set from BC.

[Zulkhan]

Not wanting to, and being unwilling to, are two different things. He might sacrifice her, but most likely not without sacrificing himself along with her though, but he would do it.

Honestly nothing suggests he would. In fact, Tyrande could be the only thing in the whole universe for which Illidan would be ready to selflessly sacrifice himself, which just says to which extents he would go to ensure that she stays safe.

[Halyon]

Honestly nothing suggests he would. In fact, Tyrande could be the only thing in the whole universe for which Illidan would be ready to selflessly sacrifice himself, which just says to which extents he would go to ensure that she stays safe.

I sortof agree with you. He would most likely sacrifice himself before her, if possible. While extremely reluctant, and if there was no other way around it, if it specifically required her to be the lamb to the slaughter, I still think he would do it, but it'd be very, very pricey on him to do so. And that's after every other remotely possible alternative was exhausted.

[Zulkhan]

I sortof agree with you. He would most likely sacrifice himself before her, if possible. While extremely reluctant, and if there was no other way around it, if it specifically required her to be the lamb to the slaughter, I still think he would do it, but it'd be very, very pricey on him to do so. And that's after every other remotely possible alternative was exhausted.

If he goes far enough to sacrifice himself for her I'm pretty sure he intends her to stay safe, period. That however would at least force him to hold faith towards someone else when it comes to bring an end to the Legion, even people that don't perfectly agree with his methods. That could be a powerful shift in the characterization of the notoriously self-centered Illidan.

[Ethenil]

I picked Altruis for a simple reason: I would never have Akama suffer like that again.

It is the only reason, and the whole reason.

[Halyon]

I picked Altruis for a simple reason: I would never have Akama suffer like that again.

It is the only reason, and the whole reason.

I really think this was a mistake to do...tie Akama to the commander you picked. I mean, you're the hero, surely you'd still get the option to at least talk to Akama, maybe jump through some hoops (quests) to make him realize that it isn't that bad, so you can have Akama freely join, if you picked Kayn, instead of what we got...

I personally don't care much for Akama, but it was still dumb to do it the way they did.

[Friendlyimmolation]

I really think this was a mistake to do...tie Akama to the commander you picked. I mean, you're the hero, surely you'd still get the option to at least talk to Akama, maybe jump through some hoops (quests) to make him realize that it isn't that bad, so you can have Akama freely join, if you picked Kayn, instead of what we got...

I personally don't care much for Akama, but it was still dumb to do it the way they did.

Gotta think of it from Kayn and the other illidari's view. This guy is part of the reason they were imprisoned, the reason their plan failed.

[Halyon]

Gotta think of it from Kayn and the other illidari's view. This guy is part of the reason they were imprisoned, the reason their plan failed.

Sure, but voluntary cooporation is still better. And thinking of it from Kayn's view, as an example, that's also why I picked him, knowing that it had Shade tacked on automatically. But the option to negotiate not being there, is my problem this time around.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Sure, but voluntary cooporation is still better. And thinking of it from Kayn's view, as an example, that's also why I picked him, knowing that it had Shade tacked on automatically. But the option to negotiate not being there, is my problem this time around.

I mean they did try, but then Akama says he will kill you. The time for negotiations left.