Ion on brewmasters

[cqwrteur]

KRSI is actually shit though.

The R stands for resolve. The equation is flawed as of Legion.

It is mathematically flawed and the creator of the equation is constantly trying to remove it from the site because he says its WRONG yet bitch tanks keep pushing to keep it up because they don't care that its wrong they just want to have it there for the kek value.

https://twitter.com/KihraOfTemerity/...99196558372864

So, what meter is right for tank?

[Deathzero]

DPS/HPS/KRSI are all shit. So the world is sooooooooooooooo equal that every class is same.

The metric was broken by the move from WoD -> Legion, so for now at least, I've disabled it. Without having any sense of raw damage taken before mitigation (which Resolve provided in WoD), the metric is no longer accurate.

That's a quote from the creator of warcraft logs on his forums. Stop believing everything you see.

[casterbator]

Tanking stuff itself is fine and im not worried about that at all. Not sure about others but for me the Spec just feels wrong its simply not fun to play anymore compared to MoP/WoD.

This is the theme of this expansion for many other class as well man! I play warlock and it feels such a huge downgrade from MoP and WoD versions of it.

Yes content itself is good but I wish they didn't alter classes this much.

[Deathzero]

So, what meter is right for tank?

There isn't one. You have to do your own math like we did in mop.

[Brickwalls]

He's spot on, exactly like idiots saying disc doesn't heal or isn't competitive, those people are just telling you they don't know how to play.

ps: ksri is shit.

Disc is liquid shit, it's very arguably worse mechanically than it was during early WoD with the added cherry of being notably iffier on performance as well for several encounters.

First off, it does heal less, this isn't up for debate. It's not some gigantic gulf but there is a gap in most circumstances and the DPS boon does not cover it. It's viable and viable typically isn't fun when it comes with no added perks or an exciting playstyle, which is about the last thing anyone could say Disc has.

Secondly and most importantly, and most important is that it plays like fucking trash. It is one of the most clunky, thankless specs ever added and in Mythic+ it's literally the worst spec ever to grace WoW; from classic to Legion. The idea of DPS to HPS is good but you actually have to fucking design something. Disc is one of the most half-assed attempts I've ever seen.

[Mcbenchpress]

I think Brewmaster is fun.

[cqwrteur]

There isn't one. You have to do your own math like we did in mop.

Why dps/hps is not shit too?

[Deleted]

So, what meter is right for tank?

There isn't a working metric of the comparison for tanks.

[coblade14]

Why dps/hps is not shit too?

Because dps and hps are straight forward. You take the total damage/healing you did in a fight, divide that by the time. And it gives you a rough idea of how well you did compare to other people or other classes.

KRSI on the other hand, is a complex formula that a person created based on the mechanics that were present AT THAT TIME. A very core mechanic of tanks when he created that formula was resolve, which doesn't exist anymore, making the formula pretty much obsolete.

[cqwrteur]

Because dps and hps are straight forward. You take the total damage/healing you did in a fight, divide that by the time. And it gives you a rough idea of how well you did compare to other people or other classes.

But dps/hps say nothing about utility. For example, if a holy paladin heals the same as a mistweaver, I would still prefer holy paladin due to their tank healing niche. That means even mistweaver and hpal have same hps, hpal is still stronger than MW.

[Deleted]

"It is the same situation when players decline players with adequate gear for a dungeon in favor of someone with even better gear. People want a smooth run and it is only natural to form a group that has the highest likelihood of success. You should take that risk on Brewmasters."

Let me say I have never made mmo community, never moderated mmo community of larger player. I think mr.ion has done his vision for brewmaster I think it can play the game, it is not bad, could use some small adjustments maybe but it is not bad now that is clarified I'll say my issue.

I think blizzard or mr.ion or whoever, handled situation poorly the class being know as bad is a fault of the developer, brewmaster had many complaint from beta and feedback from complaint they mr.ion gave was not courteous and did not inspire confidence in the direction of class. i think and this is assumption that this response lack of change players decided to stop playing the spec. this gave brewmaster a poor launch in legion, not many experienced player playing. this with the need to invest a large amount of ap into spec as is the way in legion. you must invest into your class for it to be better, this is a concept i like and enjoy but who would invest in a spec with nothing but bad thing said?
I think new player try brewmaster and are put off immediately I think it gets better as you invest but blizzard ask to much of the people, ask them to put their time and faith into something uncertain and troublesome if people see you are brewmaster and they turn their noise to you, other tanks do not have this problem so why play brewmaster instead?

My final point is with respect to mr.ion as said before I never run large community of player, but i think he is being naive, he is aware that players prefer higher ilv and people with achievements because they want easy runs and not to teach or to die or for it to take long time. He asks the community to take a risk on brewmaster, but has given these people no incentive to do so.
if he asked people to stop using high ilv request or asking for achievement would they listen? Probably no
Brewmaster player if their is stigma it will exist for many long time unless populace is convinced otherwise and maybe they're just not enough good brewmaster player any more to convince enough people.

[Deleted]

Meanwhile method used a BM monk in their mythic raid yesterday. Seem'd pretty decent

[Deleted]

Meanwhile method used a BM monk in their mythic raid yesterday. Seem'd pretty decent

This could be my foolishness but i think this is worst for BM, it creates an idea to play BM you must be super pro like method.
So method player convince people but can average player say he is as good as method?
will his guild just not assume he is not and his spec is the issue, and then replace him and find it easier?

[Rafoel]

Meanwhile method used a BM monk in their mythic raid yesterday. Seem'd pretty decent

Method could probably use Voidwalker for tanking and it would look decent.

[kamuimac]

Did you guys see the most recent Q+A Ion did? What he said about brewmaster is interesting.

"Brewmaster Monks have a community perspective problem. People aren't as familiar with your spec, so they go with someone else rather than "taking a risk". Brewmaster is very strong right now, they just feel different than other tanks. Brewmasters smooth out incoming damage so much, so even if they take a little more damage, it is taken in a way that is predictable. They have incredibly high survival. Healers feel like they can't top off Brewmasters, but they aren't actually dying. Not dying is what tanking is all about. They have great mobility, solid control, good cooldowns, can survive things that no other tank can survive. There may be a high skill cap to playing Brewmaster correctly and no one wants to take a risk. It is the same situation when players decline players with adequate gear for a dungeon in favor of someone with even better gear. People want a smooth run and it is only natural to form a group that has the highest likelihood of success. You should take that risk on Brewmasters."

I'd have to say I agree with him 100%. We honestly are in a pretty good spot and we can definitely survive many things that other tanks just cannot, especially if you pause your stagger with BoC. The things that you can survive doing that is absurd.

What do you guys think about what he said?

i think that there is a big disconnection between what devs want to BrM feel and play like and what playerbase likes - this spec has very niche audience in current for and its ok - people just dont like the kind of active mitiagation because its too complicated for them .

[MallowTS]

I tanked Guarm last night solo BRM.

Was able to dodge alot of the 2nd hit, and the fang hit me like a wet noodle. I've got a log to prove the attempt, but I literally just made my account to come and post here to say that hey, Brewmasters are doing fine. (MMO will not let me post a link because my account is too new, but if you look at warcraft logs, sort by Guarm Normal, and healing done, I'm currently #3, or just look up Wollamfu-Kil'Jaden.)

Did it in windwalker gear, mastery is actually a decent stat to stack, still would prefer crit though.

Wish the community didn't auto decline monks all the time though, that is getting rather annoying.

[cqwrteur]

people just dont like the kind of active mitiagation because its too complicated for them .

All underpowered specs are "complicated" to the community. "complex" is just another name of "underpowered"

If you try to argue a spec is complex, how could you really prove it? APM? Variance? Or some other meters? Will addons affect it? We don't know.

[ImpTaimer]

"Community perspective problem"

Ion couldn't mental gymnastics his way out of a paper bag. (Not that any of the post-merger devs could.)

Same boring-ass flat out blaming the community for not playing a shitty class/spec and then refusing to tell them what they're doing wrong since Cata.

Big QoL changes better happen in 7.1.5 class-wise or they're going to hemorrhage even more subs of people tired of having all their artifact power grind thrown into the garbage hoping things will get better.

"We want players to figure out the right way to play their class, even if the class intentionally sucks."

[Deleted]

The power of BRM has not been questioned by me, they are indeed decent if played correctly. The problem for me is the same that I see others are having, it's how much worse the spec feels compared to the MoP/WoD version. Totally subjective I know but after having played the spec since it came out on a high level it just seems like something is broken with it currently.

[Lucrece]

Any tank feels like shit when compared to a prot warrior or guardian druid.

Try playing a vengeance demonhunter, you're spiking all over the place. Meanwhile our prot warrior just laughs at what's grinding my ass down.