Odyn agenda

[Aucald]

Why is everyone saying Odyn was an asshole? I haven't come across anything that could imply such a thing. I thought he was simply a good guy imprisoned in the Halls of Valor.

Mostly because Odyn essentially created the monstrosity that Helya became by enslaving her as the first of his Val'kyr against her wishes. This occurred in the distant past when Odyn disagreed with the other Keepers concerning the appointment of the Dragon Aspects as Azeroth's evolutionary monitors and protectors, and decided to create his own army of Valarjar and Val'kyr to serve in that capacity. Helya was freed and/or corrupted by Loken, and then turned against Odyn and locked him and his army inside the Halls of Valor until we free him several millennia later.

Odyn's personality also has some troublesome quirks, and so a lot of people don't trust him.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Mostly because Odyn essentially created the monstrosity that Helya became by enslaving her as the first of his Val'kyr against her wishes. This occurred in the distant past when Odyn disagreed with the other Keepers concerning the appointment of the Dragon Aspects as Azeroth's evolutionary monitors and protectors, and decided to create his own army of Valarjar and Val'kyr to serve in that capacity. Helya was freed and/or corrupted by Loken, and then turned against Odyn and locked him and his army inside the Halls of Valor until we free him several millennia later.

Odyn's personality also has some troublesome quirks, and so a lot of people don't trust him.

whatever the case was, loken didnt need to corrupt Helya, she "harbored a intense hatred in her phantom heart" for years until loken broke Odyn's mental control over her>

[Aucald]

whatever the case was, loken didnt need to corrupt Helya, she "harbored a intense hatred in her phantom heart" for years until loken broke Odyn's mental control over her>

He wouldn't have needed to, but as Loken was already an agent of the Old Gods at that point it definitely seems like something he *would* do. Helya's current state as an squid-like monstrosity as opposed to the typical form of a Vrykul or Val'kyr definitely seems to have an Old God flavor to it - although she may have gotten there on her own without Loken's "help."

[Aleksej89]

I would not be surprised if Odyn turned versus us if we refused to join his personal army.

He was very opposed to the creation of dragonflight and a creation of the "army of light" might not be acceptable to him.

[Dalheim]

He was very opposed to the creation of dragonflight and a creation of the "army of light" might not be acceptable to him.

Then we can maybe ress Helya and have her imprison him again to make him shut the hell up? xD

[Zandalariprelate]

I would not be surprised if Odyn turned versus us if we refused to join his personal army.

He was very opposed to the creation of dragonflight and a creation of the "army of light" might not be acceptable to him.

I see him more like a arrogant saying his valajar is the best army of azeroth but I see unlike from his part not accepting the army of light because they have the same ideals of him

[Aleksej89]

I see him more like a arrogant saying his valajar is the best army of azeroth but I see unlike from his part not accepting the army of light because they have the same ideals of him

Dragonflight had 100% identical ideals as odyns valajar.
Exact same ideals, but he refused to join or even support them.

Odyn definitely wound not like our Army of the Light when he did not like the Dragonflight.

[Zulkhan]

Helya made it her life's purpose to imprison Odyn and screw him (and his force) as much as she could. Is it that surprising that she didn't want Odyn to be free again?

It could just be her obsession for him or, maybe, is an actual warning. Given Odyn's history of doing what he belives is right no matter the cost and no matter which people he has to screw over in the process, I say he count as potential threat. Not a threat for Azeroth (not a direct one at least) but most likely a threat for us. This guy fucked right away her "adopted daughter" after all. If he can be such an ass towards someone so close to him, he can be so towards everyone if he deems that necessary. And the way he deems things "necessary" are effectively tied to little more than bigoted views.

He's basically like Wrathion but worse, as Wrathion screw things up mostly out of naivety rather than bigotry.

[xChurch]

After getting beat by us twice, he'd have to be the most dense mofo on the planet, I mean even Gul'dan started to have second thoughts when he realized the PCs would be coming for him. Though I don't doubt Blizzard may do it but I feel like it would be hard to pull off in a way that didn't make him seem like an idiot for trying.

[ArmatisUlv]

For all we know he is still pro Azeroth. Can keepers become corrupted? I didn't think they could but not 100% sure.

Did you ever read about what Loken did to the keepers because of Yogg'saron? Yeah, they can be bent and twisted.

[Zyky]

So I killed Helya today, and her last words were "He (Odyn) must not be free". It did sound to me like some kind of a warning, maybe Odyn is not our true ally after all and has some hidden agenda he tries to push. Maybe setting him free was a bad idea. Like sure, Helya was a bitch and we had good reasons to kill her (or did we?), but Odyn is not really a nice guy (always seemd fishy to me with all this "worthiness" and "valor" talk) as we saw in the past. Maybe he is either corrupted or turned to Algalon 2.0. And his last words, that he will go see Ulduar and other Keepers seemed kinda sinsiter, but maybe I'm overreacting. What do you think?

Couple things kinda threw me off, like why? Like you said, why are we killing Helya? I mean if you want to look at it from a faction side, Alliance wants to kill her for helping Sylvanas get the Lanturn and Horde want to do it so Helya can't hurt Sylvanas for "crossing" Helya since she wasn't able to complete her side of the bargain. But this is a stretch imho.

The Ulduar comment really threw me off because he meets with both Thorim and Hodir in the warrior class hall, so is the warrior class hall not canon? Or in some weird timeline thing does the Helya raid happen before Emerald Nightmare or any of our campaign efforts? Just really confusing to me.

[Deleted]

Couple things kinda threw me off, like why? Like you said, why are we killing Helya?

The official spiehl is that Helya and her primary agents, the Kvaldir, have been enormous menaces to all of Azeroth in the past, and are now escalating that campaign of being huge dicks as the Legion attacks.

No matter how tragic her villainy might be, it's genuine and repeated enough where you can't just leave her around to fuck up Azeroth behind our backs when we got a world-cleaving demontitan breathing down our necks.

The side effect is that we also free up a very powerful ally. Despite how we've made Odyn submit to our strength twice now, he's by no means a pushover by any means.

Aaaand.. I actually kinda like having the naive firebeard grampa on our side. Eager to see him earn his redemption on the fields of glory.

[Qualia]

Dragonflight had 100% identical ideals as odyns valajar.
Exact same ideals, but he refused to join or even support them.

Odyn definitely wound not like our Army of the Light when he did not like the Dragonflight.

Well, he didn't attack the dragonflights or other Keepers, though. He even offered other Keepers a part in his plans, and when they rejected, he just sulked and went off doing it himself. If the same circumstance happens here, he'd probably do the same thing: go off and fight the Legion with his Valarjar rather than attacking us.

It's true that there is a chance for him to turn against us. However, going by how he had been acknowledging our strengths (the general quests, the warrior campaign and the raids), I'd say that it's more likely for him to just turn out to be an ally. If Illidan can be on our side, then Odyn definitely can.

Couple things kinda threw me off, like why? Like you said, why are we killing Helya? I mean if you want to look at it from a faction side, Alliance wants to kill her for helping Sylvanas get the Lanturn and Horde want to do it so Helya can't hurt Sylvanas for "crossing" Helya since she wasn't able to complete her side of the bargain. But this is a stretch imho.

The Ulduar comment really threw me off because he meets with both Thorim and Hodir in the warrior class hall, so is the warrior class hall not canon? Or in some weird timeline thing does the Helya raid happen before Emerald Nightmare or any of our campaign efforts? Just really confusing to me.

That wasn't the reason we were killing Helya. We were killing her because she decided to be funny and let her force attack (or using in-game word, "plague") the living. Seeing majority of us are living, it's no wonder that we would want to put an end to that. Freeing Odyn (who, for now, is one of our allies) is just a bonus. As of class hall, I agree that it's a bit confusing since Odyn supposedly have met Thorim & Hodir at the end of Warrior campaign. I guess we can interpret it that he was talking about other Keepers in general, not just Thorim & Hodir (i.e: Mimiron / Freya).

[StationaryHawk]

After getting beat by us twice, he'd have to be the most dense mofo on the planet, I mean even Gul'dan started to have second thoughts when he realized the PCs would be coming for him. Though I don't doubt Blizzard may do it but I feel like it would be hard to pull off in a way that didn't make him seem like an idiot for trying.

We definitely didn't "beat" him in the dungeon. He wanted to test our mettle, and yields very early into the fight.

[Mehrunes]

Helya was freed and/or corrupted by Loken, and then turned against Odyn and locked him and his army inside the Halls of Valor until we free him several millennia later.

There's no "or" here. We know for a fact that Loken freed her. At best it's both that and him corrupting her, but that's speculation.

He wouldn't have needed to, but as Loken was already an agent of the Old Gods at that point it definitely seems like something he *would* do. Helya's current state as an squid-like monstrosity as opposed to the typical form of a Vrykul or Val'kyr definitely seems to have an Old God flavor to it - although she may have gotten there on her own without Loken's "help."

And yet neither he nor Yogg did anything like that with Keepers of Ulduar.

It could just be her obsession for him or, maybe, is an actual warning. Given Odyn's history of doing what he belives is right no matter the cost and no matter which people he has to screw over in the process, I say he count as potential threat. Not a threat for Azeroth (not a direct one at least) but most likely a threat for us. This guy fucked right away her "adopted daughter" after all. If he can be such an ass towards someone so close to him, he can be so towards everyone if he deems that necessary. And the way he deems things "necessary" are effectively tied to little more than bigoted views.

He's basically like Wrathion but worse, as Wrathion screw things up mostly out of naivety rather than bigotry.

He did it for Azeroth though so all of that is forgiven and, more importantly, brushed under the carpet forgotten. All is fine with Odyn and his lunatic ramblings. Also, he hasn't done anything like that after Helya broke free and his evil deeds... Wait, the evil part is forgotten... And his deeds bit him in the ass (never mind the fact that Helya's first act after she broke free was sealing him away in his asylum full of VALOR and pro-Titanforged bigotry which prevented him from pulling such stunts whether he learned his lesson or not) so all is forgotten some more. Forgotten squared even. Odyn is the most swell guy to ever swell and he shall lead us to glory eternal. Who needs Illidan becoming our lord and savior (which would obviously be amazing and totally fresh) when we already have Odyn.

#TeamOdyn

[Leyre]

"the Lord of Ravens will turn the key."

did that shitty mage just turn into a god damn giant raven? nah, must be my imagination

[Aucald]

There's no "or" here. We know for a fact that Loken freed her. At best it's both that and him corrupting her, but that's speculation.

That she was freed isn't in question, the manner in which she was freed is. Did Loken simply restore to her a sense of her free will, or did he also shackle her to the subtle control of the Old Gods? Given her appearance in Legion and the thematic similarity she has to other creations of the Old Gods I wouldn't think it's too far off the mark to say she was corrupted as well.

And yet neither he nor Yogg did anything like that with Keepers of Ulduar.

All of the Keepers in Ulduar were corrupted by Yogg-Saron when we encounter them in the raid. Hodir is in a state of rage and thanks you on defeat from releasing him from Yogg-Saron's grasp, Freya in "Chronicle" was said to grow more distant and unstable until she no longer left the confines of Ulduar, Thorim was actively being mind-controlled by an illusion of Sif, and Mimiron states "I allowed my mind to be corrupted by the fiend in the prison, overriding my primary directive." I don't think it's too far to think that Loken probably had quite an active hand in their corruption as Yogg-Saron at that point was still fully imprisoned.

[Mehrunes]

Why is everyone saying Odyn was an asshole? I haven't come across anything that could imply such a thing. I thought he was simply a good guy imprisoned in the Halls of Valor.

He is to the first Val'kyr what Lich King is to the Forsaken and Ebon Blade (and to some extent most of the Scourge). Also, he's bigoted against non-Titanforged, is obsessed with every derivative of the word VALOR and his way of amusing himself is making people fight things. Also, given how at the start Vrykul were against his idea of Val'kyr and Valarjar to the point he couldn't get a single volunteer, yet nowadays they kill each other for VALOR, potentially abused the fact that Vrykul came back to Stormheim where his asylum was located after a long time of living in Northrend, which most likely made them forget what kind of asshole he was and made him more of a mythical figure to them, like what happened with Tyr. And, assholery aside, his idea of dealing with Skovald was idiotic.

The official spiehl is that Helya and her primary agents, the Kvaldir, have been enormous menaces to all of Azeroth in the past, and are now escalating that campaign of being huge dicks as the Legion attacks.

Other than fighting Naga, who are our enemies, and Vrykul, who for the most part are also our enemies, the Kvaldir attacked only Tuskarr and the playable factions in Northrend. As in, only in Northrend. Then didn't involve themselves with us until we started attacking them in Broken Isles when we became Odyn's lapdogs. And the Kvaldir in WotLK we t to Northrend because Alliance scavengers fucked around with their sacred burial grounds. Given how it's not really like Helya to give a damn about the burial grounds of her subjects, chances are those particular Kvaldir went there on their own while they were out on some mission for Helya. I'm not really seeing the "all of Azeroth" part.

That wasn't the reason we were killing Helya. We were killing her because she decided to be funny and let her force attack (or using in-game word, "plague") the living. Seeing majority of us are living, it's no wonder that we would want to put an end to that. Freeing Odyn (who, for now, is one of our allies) is just a bonus. As of class hall, I agree that it's a bit confusing since Odyn supposedly have met Thorim & Hodir at the end of Warrior campaign. I guess we can interpret it that he was talking about other Keepers in general, not just Thorim & Hodir (i.e: Mimiron / Freya).

Not sure where Helarjar WQ hubs are located in Azsuna (not a lot of living there anyway) or Val'sharah (not a lot on our side at the coastline there), but the one in Stormheim is in Vrykul outpost usually occupied by Naga and the one in Highmountain is between the place swarming with falcosaurs and the place swarming with hostile Murlocs (also some Skrogs are nearby). Yeah, no wonder we would want to put an end to that indeed. We don't need competition for slaughtering the Murlocs.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Odyn is just more of an anti hero, does questionable things(Or did something questionable) for the good of all. I mean I'm not saying I liked what he did to Helya, but I still appreciate him. Also



FOR VALOUR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Zulkhan]

Odyn is just more of an anti hero, does questionable things(Or did something questionable) for the good of all.

More for what he believes is right, which is very far from objectively being for the "good of all". And what he believed is that the Dragon Aspects weren't worthy to protect Azeroth as the Titanforged would have been. Well, for thousands of years they have been active and supported mortals in the defense of Azeroth more than any Titan robot did. His only argument could be the corruption of Neltharion, immediately falling apart when you give a look at his bud Loken.