Britain's Brexit Plan? Leaked Memo Says There Is No Plan

[Dhrizzle]

Of course, the majority of people voted leave purely to give the NHS £350m per week.

The thing is we don't know why people voted the way they did because the referendum asked a very simple question about a very complicated issue. However the £350m a week for the NHS pledge is one of the few, if not the only Leave campaign pledge that comes without any down-sides.

[Slant]

Leftists want globalism? Tell that to the pary "Die Linke" (The Left) in Germany and all the other "leftist" groups. Most of the anti Ceta/TTIP protesters I know would consider themselves in the left spectrum.

This is what happens when you call everything "leftist" that you disagree with. You blur the lines and don't know who's left anymore, or what leftism stands for. Or what it actually is. Ah, the joy of seeng polemics getting tangled up in itself.

[Deleted]

/snip

Our daily attempt by Tannisace to rekindle the political flames.

[Dhrizzle]

Of course it was wishful thinking, as we know the £350m figure does not even exist so its impossible to base a plan on it. I just don't know why people get so fixated on this £350m figure as though if the government doesn't deliver this it means its all turned to ratshit.

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Like I said the plan is restriction of EU immigration and full access to the single market.

And its just a fallacy to suggest that access to the single market requires accepting freedom of movement.

Isn't it just as much wishful thinking expecting to get access to the free-market without accepting the conditions every other country has signed up to? I don't know why people get so fixated on immigration restriction as though if the government doesn't deliver this it means its all turned to ratshit.

[ati87]

Of course it was wishful thinking, as we know the £350m figure does not even exist so its impossible to base a plan on it. I just don't know why people get so fixated on this £350m figure as though if the government doesn't deliver this it means its all turned to ratshit.

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Like I said the plan is restriction of EU immigration and full access to the single market.

And its just a fallacy to suggest that access to the single market requires accepting freedom of movement.

No its a principe of united Europe that you fail to understand and you thinking that you can cherry pick whatever the F you like is frankly close to being best case naive.

EU based around the principes of 4 freedoms because that is what the basic foundation of Europe has always been about, this isn't by accident and smarter people then you came up with this because they understand that when you bring economies closer together the exchange of people becomes essential.

Before the EU their where in Western Europe allot of foreign workers outside of Europe, whatever your opinion is about them (I can guess) you think governments at that time recruited them just because of money? In Western Europe (and NA) people lack a certain skill and work mentality that's needed to have a functioning economy, without the immigration in the 60s and 70s Europe would be nowhere.

[Kalis]

Whoever was heading the leave campaign should have had a plan at least, yes.

Not sure I'd want a Boris plan. It would start out well, then go off track, insult random places and end up discussing the finer points of Polynesian women.

Partly the reason why there is no current plan is the sheer complexity and the amount of people needed to work out the fine details of what leaving the EU means. This is not one person writing a few pages of A4 hundreds of people are being involved in writing policy for Brexit. The average person has very little understanding on what the EU even really is let alone the finer detail of what leaving it entails. I was largely undecided for most of the Referendum largely because I don't pretend to know about the finer details of european poitics and economy and wasnt going to make my decision based on emotion (which I think the vast amount of people did)

My wife is a civil servant (civil servants are politics neutral and work for whatever party is in office) working for the department for health and has just been moved for her current position as Private Secretary (political secretary not PA/typist) to the Chief Medical Officer in order to work on the Health side of Brexit. Things such as what happens when a UK citizen gets sick in an EU country, what happens when an EU national is sick here, how do taxes and levies now work on imported drugs from Europe, Should screening put in place to prevent the transmission of disease and passport control change, do special preferences be given to pregnant women on a flight to the EU and how does a baby being born in a variety of circumstance while abroad or travelling now work etc etc...

Her team is made up of about 6 people (they are still not fully staffed) and she works pretty long hours (i am main childcare for our son).

This is one of many teams that will be similar across other Government departments (lots of these departments are only now just finishing getting staffed as people have needed to be moved around and ressigned without damaging whatever they were working on previously (her previous work was on Anti-microbial resistance in the UK)). Everything from Agriculture, education and trade all need really complex new policies and agreements written up. You only have to look at how long the Apple terms and conditions are to realise how detailed a document like this might be.... but about an entire country and all of its outward facing policies as opposed to the use of Itunes.

So the reason there is no current plan is the plans are just being put together and it isnt a case of writing some vague agreement down and just leaving.... this is having to undo and agree on 45 years worth of policy and organisation. The media just love to jump on a story (im assuming everyone has had that moment where you read a newspaper article about something you are very knowledgeable about only to find half the facts wrong, well assume all articles are equally as wrong.

The document will be hundreds if not thousands of pages long and have to be read by countless lawyers before anything can or will be final and surely just leaving without putting everything in place to make the situation as good as possible is an irresponsible thing to do.

I've said before that the Brexit leave campaign wouldn't have had the resources to create a plan, as it would require a government department and that Cameron wouldn't have wanted to devote the resources to it for various reasons, but people aren't interested in that...they just want to know why there wasn't a plan.

So, whilst your post is spot on, it will be ignored by people that want a simple answer. I have found you are better off making silly jokes than giving complex answers.

[Rockyreg]

The thing is we don't know why people voted the way they did because the referendum asked a very simple question about a very complicated issue. However the £350m a week for the NHS pledge is one of the few, if not the only Leave campaign pledge that comes without any down-sides.

Where are the downsides to:

1). Controlling immigration
2). being free to make our own trade deals

[Rotted]

Good the longer the better. Just need it to last long enough to get my application in a EU uni for my masters, (cheaper prices ftw)

[Rockyreg]

Isn't it just as much wishful thinking expecting to get access to the free-market without accepting the conditions every other country has signed up to? I don't know why people get so fixated on immigration restriction as though if the government doesn't deliver this it means its all turned to ratshit.

It is wishful thinking, but it is a plan which was the original point I made to people saying there was no plan. It is a starting point in negotiations just as the EU's starting point is there will be no access to the single market without free movement of people.

I don't think even immigration was the biggest reason for people to vote to leave either so I would argue they are not fixated on this single issue.

[Deleted]

Where are the downsides to:

1). Controlling immigration
2). being free to make our own trade deals

You would not get better deals outside the EU compared to the status which UK held up to the Brexit moronity. UK already had a special snowflake status in the EU, keeping its own currency for example, but no, this was not enough. Also 350m a week is only half of the picture, it does not include the amount of subsidies paid by the EU for some UK regions which dearly needed this money. Will these regions be subsidised now by the UK or left to crumble?

[Mayhem]

Like I said the plan is restriction of EU immigration and full access to the single market.

And its just a fallacy to suggest that access to the single market requires accepting freedom of movement.

Well sure, but then you will have to give up some of your financial services and others.

[Dhrizzle]

Where are the downsides to:

1). Controlling immigration
2). being free to make our own trade deals

1. EU immigrants have been a net gain for the UK economy and fill vital roles including jobs in the NHS.
1b. Free movement of people is a two-way street and brexit makes the future of UK citizens living in the EU uncertain.

2. Leaving the EU puts us in a weaker position due to having less economic clout. It also puts our access to the European free-market at risk.

[Rockyreg]

No its a principe of united Europe that you fail to understand and you thinking that you can cherry pick whatever the F you like is frankly close to being best case naive.

EU based around the principes of 4 freedoms because that is what the basic foundation of Europe has always been about, this isn't by accident and smarter people then you came up with this because they understand that when you bring economies closer together the exchange of people becomes essential.

Before the EU their where in Western Europe allot of foreign workers outside of Europe, whatever your opinion is about them (I can guess) you think governments at that time recruited them just because of money? In Western Europe (and NA) people lack a certain skill and work mentality that's needed to have a functioning economy, without the immigration in the 60s and 70s Europe would be nowhere.

I assume from your post speaking of a 'united' Europe that everyone in Europe is in favour of free movement of people and its just us pesky Brits that have issues with it. Of course we want to pick the best bits who doesn't. It still doesn't get away from my point that others have access to the single market without freedom of movement.

you also guess wrong about my opinion on immigration, I see it to be vital for the economic growth of our country but what is the harm in having some controls so we can tailor immigration to the skills that are actually required.

You should also try to get a little less emotional, looks ridiculous.

[Mayhem]

Where are the downsides to:

1). Controlling immigration
2). being free to make our own trade deals

1). are we forgetting expats?
2). having lesser leverage because being a smaller economy

[Dhrizzle]

I assume from your post speaking of a 'united' Europe that everyone in Europe is in favour of free movement of people and its just us pesky Brits that have issues with it. Of course we want to pick the best bits who doesn't. It still doesn't get away from my point that others have access to the single market without freedom of movement.

you also guess wrong about my opinion on immigration, I see it to be vital for the economic growth of our country but what is the harm in having some controls so we can tailor immigration to the skills that are actually required.

You should also try to get a little less emotional, looks ridiculous.

Out of interest, which countries have access to the free-market without accepting the free movement of people?

[Kalis]

1. EU immigrants have been a net gain for the UK economy and fill vital roles including jobs in the NHS.
1b. Free movement of people is a two-way street and brexit makes the future of UK citizens living in the EU uncertain.

2. Leaving the EU puts us in a weaker position due to having less economic clout. It also puts our access to the European free-market at risk.

In respect of point 1, that is great for the overall economy, but not so great for the average British builder who has seen increased competition from a group that doesn't have the same expenses they do and can work for cheaper.

So they don't look at the overall economy, they look at what they can provide for their families and who in their right minds can actually blame them? Oddly enough, the left in the UK who are socialists, were typically against the EU immigration, as it fucked over the working classes the most and that has traditionally been the left's voterbase.

If you look at the sides in opposition to the EU, two of the largest groups would have socialists trying to protect workers and nationalists trying to reclaim sovereignty - odd bedfellows.

[Deleted]

Did anyone seriously believe they had a plan? Populists never have plans, just look at Trump.

[Deleted]

The plan is simple.

We kill the Batman!

[Berengil]

In respect of point 1, that is great for the overall economy, but not so great for the average British builder who has seen increased competition from a group that doesn't have the same expenses they do and can work for cheaper.

So they don't look at the overall economy, they look at what they can provide for their families and who in their right minds can actually blame them? Oddly enough, the left in the UK who are socialists, were typically against the EU immigration, as it fucked over the working classes the most and that has traditionally been the left's voterbase.

If you look at the sides in opposition to the EU, two of the largest groups would have socialists trying to protect workers and nationalists trying to reclaim sovereignty - odd bedfellows.

Exactly right. It's the type of sht that the guy you quoted posted that gets shts like Trump, Le Pen, and Farage the things they want. They can appeal to a working class in developed nations that has been fcked in the arse by globalism and free trade.

[Rockyreg]

You would not get better deals outside the EU compared to the status which UK held up to the Brexit moronity. UK already had a special snowflake status in the EU, keeping its own currency for example, but no, this was not enough. Also 350m a week is only half of the picture, it does not include the amount of subsidies paid by the EU for some UK regions which dearly needed this money. Will these regions be subsidised now by the UK or left to crumble?

Its a matter of conjecture whether we would get better or worse deals outside of the EU as there are pros and cons to being part of the single market in that respect.

I think its a little disingenuous to say the UK had special snowflake status. Not all EU countries are created equal, France and Germany are more powerful than other nations for example. Thank goodness we had the sense to not join the abomination that was the single currency, hows that working out for all the members of the Eurozone?

Who knows what will happen to these regions without the EU finding, we'll have to wait and see. At least the people in those regions will be able to hold our government directly to account.