Make warlocks great again!!!

[ComputerNerd]

Personaly i love Soul Efigy , u just have to find the perfect macros to dot it without targeting it...... if ur noob affliction pls dont complain... only thing i would love about soul effigy is maibe a spel to relocate it.... to make a use in pvp as well or even in pve. I curently dot my effygy without having to target it, effigy is for pro affl ^^.

If a macro is the only solution, then something is fundamentally wrong.
We should IMO have a frame for it, rather than it being best to focus it.
Mouseover macro's are I feel a problem there too.

[Lizl]

Affliction:
Give us different functioning dots. If our "class fantasy" is dots, then our dots should be the most powerful and unique amongst other classes.
- Agony ramp-up is fine but dont tie it to SS gen. Solidify its role as a powerful dot the longer it's up. Maybe have its damage not cap?
- Make Siphon Life function like old Explosive Shot. 8sCD reduced by haste. 3 ticks over 3s. Heals for100% damage dealt. Generates a shard.
- Corruption back to generating SS. Same way it was in wod. Damage should rival Agony's.
- UA costs 2 shards and deals monstrous damage. You should feel like UA is the worst thing you've ever done to the target. Duration is 12s and you can have 5 up at a time.
- Drain Soul baseline with a 4s channel. Deals 100% damage below 20% hp.
- Updated visuals.

[bloodmoth13]

Demo:
DE rework, it now lasts 5 seconds, is much more powerful, gets 2 charges and is instant.
Constant upkeep makes this ability a chore, shorter windows of power would make it feel better, 2 charges means you can bank it for when you need it, and the best use case will always be using this when demons are stacked, exactly how it should be used.

Demonwrath, demonwrath causes your melee demons to emit an aoe and your ranged demons to deal splash damage.
Demonwrath feels like crap when you have your doomguard out, also you cant position your imps, so having them radiate damage feels like crap most of the time

[Deleted]

Affliction:
1.- Tone down its ramp
2.- make sow baseline

Demonology:
1.- Change empower into hots azmodans general of hell ability
2.- make implosion baseline

Destruction:
1.- Make RE baseline
2.- Make destro's aoe symbiotic instead of needing to choose between tab targeting immolates to maintain RoF or spamming FnB incinerate and not being able to RoF at all unless you have feretory.

good point. I can't find a sweetspot. it's so confusing. I have the RoF ring.
Should I start using Rain of Fire on 4 mobs? Or even 3?

Normally I go havoc one target. immolate the rest. start using RiF and spam incinerate F&B
If its super small mobs I just use conflag -> incinerate because they dead before immolate even ticks.
if its too many mobs immolate feels awkward, but Cataclysm is a pretty bad talent to take and Cataclysm casttime is super long.

It feels super awkward no matter how I do it. ^^

[Irian]

Affliction:
1. Soul Effigy gone. This type of talent is stupid on mages, it's stupid on warlock, it's just crappy. Not fun. Give some sort of cool single-target spell/augment of non-DoT spell instead. My suggestion is a curse that allows us briefly to apply a second layer of dots on a target.
2. Sow the Seeds baseline. Stop making warlocks have to spec into AoE.

Demonology:
1. Implosion gone and AoE buffed. People are likely going to want to punch me for this but I hate this talent, it feels clunky and crappily designed, it's not particularly responsive and it's counterintuitive to demonology's design. I'd rather have a talent that buffed demonwrath or HoG or augmented them in some way to make them stronger. This would also help mobility as Demonwrath is our only mobility spell.
2. Demonic Empowerment redesign. It's clunky as hell and awkward.

Destruction:
1. An actual AoE spell please. I know I'm asking a lot here but c'mon, Blizzard, a class being "unique" by not having a filler AoE is not exactly fun design. Hellfire back, maybe? I always felt like it made more sense for destruction anyway, and the small range makes it somewhat challenging to use properly which I personally found fun.
2. More talent options. Destruction has maybe one row, the first tier, that actually has choices at all. And some choices are theoretical DPS increases but are simply not fun to anyone (mana tap) and have been bitched about since beta. Eradication should be baseline, Burning Rush should not be on the same tier as our defensives and Grimoire of Supremacy is a dead option. Channel Demonfire should be an AoE that works on all of our immolate targets as well, to actually...you know, make it rewarding and fun to use.

[Metic]

I like wishful thinking, so I'll play.

Affliction:
1.- Go back to MoP Affliction.
2.- Artifact talents that rely on kills don't work during a lot of boss fights. Fix them.

Demonology:
1.- Empower Demons is cancer, fix it.
2.- Every spell being a hard cast makes for frustrating play when every fight non-ignorable mechanics that require you to move.

Destruction:
1.- Consistent shard generation.
2.- Lackluster artifact ability.

[Wenoxar]

I don't feel like I should have a chance at saying what would make Affliction better as I haven't played it but let's see about Demo and especially Destro:

Demo:
1) Make Demonic Empowerment have 2 charges like conflag, also instant. Each Demonic Empowerment gives an empower of 15 seconds. CD is 20 seconds. Empowerment now increases your character's shadow damage done against your target by 5% for its duration. It's called Demonic Empowerment, not Demon Empowerment. Why not get a demonic buff along with your minions? Also change the animation to look much cooler.
2) Make it so that Summon Dreadstalkers becomes an instant cast if you use hand of gul'dan before it.
3) Make demonwrath a respectable aoe attack. Or make implosion baseline and add something else in that row. Or make your demons spit hellfire, similar to how the old hellfire aoe was for warlock demon form. Make it so that your demons just emit hellfire through an instant cast. Similar to the demonic form that you would just press the ability and it would work for 10 secs or something.
4) Doomguard and Infernal should become part of a regular rotation with 1.5 min cd. You should be able to summon either, you are a mastery demonologist for christ's sake. Also, dmg of these 2 summons would be reduced to compensate for less cd and being able to use them both.
5) Give dreadstalkers the ability to blink towards the target you shadow/demonbolt too. THat way they will lose much less time running and doing nothing.
6) New Demo 3-4 min cd. Summon Pit Lord. Make it powerful. A combination of the infernal and doomguard, as well as with new abilities. 25 second duration if 3 min cd. 30 second duration if 4 min cd. Make this cd synergize with the two demon legendaries.
7) No fucking mana issues.

Ok, these might have been some silly changes, I don't know, not a demo expert, its just my offspecc! Now destro!

1) Reverse Entropy baseline.
2) Cataclysm baseline, make its old talent an improved Cataclysm that summons an infernal too or something.
3) New Fel Animations.
4) Make the Magistrike Restraints legendary to hit the same target if it duplicates a chaos bolt and no other target is nearby. I hate it how its just a tiny stack stick in pure ST fights. I don't have the legendary yet by the way but I really like the idea of a duplicated chaos bolt.
5) Rework mastery. If you want a chaotic mastery I will give you one. Every attack you use has a 1-X% chance depending on your mastery to give you a free chaos bolt. Instant cast. 100% Increased damage. Also Mastery won't be such a ridiculous % per mastery now. Its so stupid to see my warlock have 38% mastery as demo and then 78% as destro lol.
6) Due to the rework of mastery, you will obviously not have that 'average' dmg increase from regular chaotic energies. Say 35% more average dmg during a fight if you have 70% mastery. This is why all spells would be buffed. Most of the spells would get a small 5-10% increase in damage. Chaos bolt would get 40-50% damage increase. The reason I thought of this mastery is because I tried to think what's really fun for me in the game. Then I thought fire mages, and their instant cast pyroblasts with MASSIVE damage. Then I tried to think of what us Destro liked from our specc, and that was Chaos bolts - the gigantic amount of dmg they dealt back in the day. So I tried to create instant Chaos bolts, and creating a new mastery for destro that would make sense as 'chaotic', if not 'chaotically destructive'.
This would rape people in pvp so for this, blizz would make it so that the extra chaos bolt wouldn't do 100% increased damage NOR would it benefit from Wrought chaos.
7) Dark Soul CD: Straight dmg cd. We need one other than doomguard/infernal.
8) Lots of ppl will suggest Doomguard and Infernal having no summoning cost but I think it fits.
9) Rework Grimoire of Supremacy into giving you a much more powerful demon that would be just as good of a choice as Grimoire of Service, so that the Supremacy demon's dps will be just as good over a 3 minute fight as summoning 2 bursty imps with grimoire of service. Make it a new cool demon that uses fire and its dmg scales with immolate slightly better. (Can't think of any specific one at the moment). It really sucks that Destro does the most dmg it can do with a pathetic imp... lol.
I would like to be given the choice to either use the pathetic imp on the double or a new cool demon that deals just as much dmg as the two imps.

For all: Enslave Demon, because hunters!

EDIT: Sorry if my English is a bit butchered but I just woke up haha! Also I would like to mention that even though I would love all these changes, I am still pretty happy with destro especially. The only things I really want are cata to be baseline since I never pick it, or reverse entropy since then I could most likely pick cata from the talent row. And another thing I hate is the mastery. It's so weird and stupid. Nice idea, but I wish it wasn't my favourite specc that has it. >_> The whole fantasy is chaotic destructive, this is why the specc is called Destruction, but its so sad that my Chaos bolts sometimes hit 700k on pve enemies, but sometimes 300k... Makes me feel like my class fantasy is 'Chaotic Puppy'.

Great ideas to make destro locks do 2000k dps

Blizz pls

[Deleted]

Warlocks have had a lot of changes over the years. A lot of them were aimed at fixing major problems with the spec that relegated them to one of the least played classes in the game. By MoP most issues were addressed and the specs played great, With WoD a lot of unnecessary changes were made making the specs feel less then they were. Now with Legion Bliz has been cutting deep into the fixes without understanding why they were added in the past.

So to make warlocks great again, revert the cutting of fixes!

We need movement speed. Burning Rush can fill that but do NOT make us choose between it and survival. Especially not when it's our best kind of survival. You don't make Iceblock and Blink talents and put them on the same line do you?

Bliz removed our default interrupt in the form of sacrifice demon abilities. Although it was already an annoying way, we do really need an interrupt just as every other class in the game. The game since, at least, Cata is designed around everyone having interrupts.

Stuns are occasionalyl used. With MoP talents a warlock could comfortably take Shadowfury and be useful on fights. Nowadays suggesting the lock stuns something gets met with laughter. Remove the cast time to make the spell useful again.

Soul Swap was added to help out with adds and Soulburn+Soul Swap was the fix to get around the massive build up time of CoA as well as the several GCD to even start dps. SS got removed and with it the add swap and burst potential of Aff. This neuters the spec in raiding and makes it annoying on any content where mobs die quickly.

Embers made Destro builds predictable. Chaos Bolt removed the randomness of crit so your dps was almost completely linked to your own skill. It was the stable spec you could rely on. In the attempt to make it more random we got Soul Shards that proc randomly, a Mastery that is nuts on rng and artifact and even legendary traits that make Soul Shards even more of a rng-fest. Not to mention the other rng things like the portals begin random in damage or the artifact traits for conflag crits and incin proccing portal charges. It's too much. Pick one aspect (SS OR Mastery (and/or artifact stuff)) and revert the other(s) back to something stable.

Destro had an instant AE snare. Disregarding the AE Conflag part, the snare was in since vanilla. Initially coupled with Immolate it got later moved into a glyph. Previous designers knew we needed it. Now it's gone and between messed up Shadowfury and no snare I rely on others to keep stuff off me. It wouldn't even be so bad if we had the means to just stand and take it, but that doesn't work on ie. Ichors at Ill'gynoth.

Warlocks in general had defense. We had more hp, took less damage, got more healing and you picked a talent for a continuous shield, a big short CD shield or an 8 sec immunity with heavy dot. Plus we had our % dam reduction CD. We did not have to choose between big shield or runspeed and that's our main source of survival. If what was said is true and Warlocks need to be more like a turret, give us back our defensives that got stripped at the very least.

Destro had fun AE. AE Chaos Bolts were the best thing ever, even if just visually. The Immolate + RoF play is clunky and without Cataclysm, Sacrifice and/or FnB it's extremely lackluster. Heck, even with all those three talents we still aren't a match for several other classes who have better AE in their damn ST spec. Going from one extreme, really good AE, to another is unwarranted. Making it clunky in the process is just insulting.

Demonology had Meta and in meta Demon had Leap and instant nukes. There was no reason to remove it when DH's were launched, but that's a choice. What is problematic is that Demon got royally shafted in mobility. With the loss of isntant nukes and Leap Demonology is suddenly a rooted caster. Everyone by now knows that if Demon moves, it has to build up for another 15 or so seconds to get it's demon army going. Not to mention missing Empowerment uptime.
Make stuff instant casts (ie, Dogs, DE, Tha'kiel) to compensate for what got ripped out.


I'll stop here as there is just so much wrong with class design for warlocks this expansion. All the fixes we had since vanilla to make the class *playable*, not OP, but playable and fun, have been destroyed with Legion. I honestly can't imagine that any dev really looked at warlocks and thought this was fine.

[Banthare]

Well if we're talking about making them GREAT again...

revert all changes made post Siege of Orgrimmar

there

I miss Burning Ember stacking and Casting 4 rain of fires and what not

[Sunlighthell]

Warlock

Sweet Souls should no longer completely heal the Warlock when an ally uses a healthstone.

Seriously. They fixed this new bug in sweet souls trait (never expirienced it) but didn't touch the one from alpha where it didn't heal you at all?

[Soluna]

Great ideas to make destro locks do 2000k dps

Blizz pls

Are you an idiot? Just because I add random % here and there that doesn't mean that it should be like that. Look more into the ideas themselves than numbers. They don't pay me to make number tuning, I am just contributing to this pool of ideas. Also, are you blind? If you read my 'edit' post, I mention that I am really happy with destruction especially, both in terms of mechanics and dps. That doesn't mean I would mind more. Also don't throw any 'you hadn't edited when I replied' shitty cards, cause my edit is there since 2 days ago or something, immediately after posting. *Slow clap* Good job on showing that you are a nice big idiot Jim *Slow clap continues*

[wulfnuts]

Demonology:
1.- Make use of different summons. Like for example having The imp out (Main pet) will allow summoned imps to cleave (will also reduce damage because imps do a lot already) having the Doomguard out allows your demonbolt to hit harder. or other stuff like that. allows us to be competitive in higher mythic+.
2.- having Demonic Empowerment buff on the lock instead of the pets.

[Deleted]

Warlocks have had a lot of changes over the years. A lot of them were aimed at fixing major problems with the spec that relegated them to one of the least played classes in the game. By MoP most issues were addressed and the specs played great, With WoD a lot of unnecessary changes were made making the specs feel less then they were. Now with Legion Bliz has been cutting deep into the fixes without understanding why they were added in the past.

So to make warlocks great again, revert the cutting of fixes!

We need movement speed. Burning Rush can fill that but do NOT make us choose between it and survival. Especially not when it's our best kind of survival. You don't make Iceblock and Blink talents and put them on the same line do you?

Bliz removed our default interrupt in the form of sacrifice demon abilities. Although it was already an annoying way, we do really need an interrupt just as every other class in the game. The game since, at least, Cata is designed around everyone having interrupts.

Stuns are occasionalyl used. With MoP talents a warlock could comfortably take Shadowfury and be useful on fights. Nowadays suggesting the lock stuns something gets met with laughter. Remove the cast time to make the spell useful again.

Soul Swap was added to help out with adds and Soulburn+Soul Swap was the fix to get around the massive build up time of CoA as well as the several GCD to even start dps. SS got removed and with it the add swap and burst potential of Aff. This neuters the spec in raiding and makes it annoying on any content where mobs die quickly.

Embers made Destro builds predictable. Chaos Bolt removed the randomness of crit so your dps was almost completely linked to your own skill. It was the stable spec you could rely on. In the attempt to make it more random we got Soul Shards that proc randomly, a Mastery that is nuts on rng and artifact and even legendary traits that make Soul Shards even more of a rng-fest. Not to mention the other rng things like the portals begin random in damage or the artifact traits for conflag crits and incin proccing portal charges. It's too much. Pick one aspect (SS OR Mastery (and/or artifact stuff)) and revert the other(s) back to something stable.

Destro had an instant AE snare. Disregarding the AE Conflag part, the snare was in since vanilla. Initially coupled with Immolate it got later moved into a glyph. Previous designers knew we needed it. Now it's gone and between messed up Shadowfury and no snare I rely on others to keep stuff off me. It wouldn't even be so bad if we had the means to just stand and take it, but that doesn't work on ie. Ichors at Ill'gynoth.

Warlocks in general had defense. We had more hp, took less damage, got more healing and you picked a talent for a continuous shield, a big short CD shield or an 8 sec immunity with heavy dot. Plus we had our % dam reduction CD. We did not have to choose between big shield or runspeed and that's our main source of survival. If what was said is true and Warlocks need to be more like a turret, give us back our defensives that got stripped at the very least.

Destro had fun AE. AE Chaos Bolts were the best thing ever, even if just visually. The Immolate + RoF play is clunky and without Cataclysm, Sacrifice and/or FnB it's extremely lackluster. Heck, even with all those three talents we still aren't a match for several other classes who have better AE in their damn ST spec. Going from one extreme, really good AE, to another is unwarranted. Making it clunky in the process is just insulting.

Demonology had Meta and in meta Demon had Leap and instant nukes. There was no reason to remove it when DH's were launched, but that's a choice. What is problematic is that Demon got royally shafted in mobility. With the loss of isntant nukes and Leap Demonology is suddenly a rooted caster. Everyone by now knows that if Demon moves, it has to build up for another 15 or so seconds to get it's demon army going. Not to mention missing Empowerment uptime.
Make stuff instant casts (ie, Dogs, DE, Tha'kiel) to compensate for what got ripped out.


I'll stop here as there is just so much wrong with class design for warlocks this expansion. All the fixes we had since vanilla to make the class *playable*, not OP, but playable and fun, have been destroyed with Legion. I honestly can't imagine that any dev really looked at warlocks and thought this was fine.

this is the best post i ever read.
Should be pin'ed !