29% of DPS who have completed heroic ToV are playing either a Fire Mage or MM Hunter

[Deleted]

It is basic mathematics.

And the only realistic reason Blizzard wouldn't balance the classes by now is that they haven't made it a priority for their workload.

Or its extremely difficult to do? as I said 12 classes with 36 specs all with 5 to 10 different spells & 5/6 different stats?
If it really is so easy why don't you send em an email with exactly how to do it so they can just copy paste and implement?
Or is it that you really have no idea what you are talking about as you have never worked on a video game before?

[Alvito]

but why ??? nobody gives a fuck about your HC DPS at all.

i realy dont get the private log shit

It is their logs to do with as they please.

[Triggered Fridgekin]

There'd be better balance if Blizzard stopped fucking around by adding additional layers to balance. Before it was a constant re-invention of the talent tree and now they're at the point where they need to balance talents on top of legendary items on top of artifact weapons on top of encounter design.

They're just giving themselves more work to do when they could barely handle it in the first place.

[Vakna]

We had our heroic logs private, as do most guilds. So it's pointless to look at heroic parses after 1 week.

Is that a joke? Only those people who are actually competitive hide their logs (or some people who think they are competitive but are actually nowhere near the top 5).

[Nize]

There are a few things here to keep in mind

-The melee dps pool is spread out amongst more classes.
-Ranged is still more valued by the community than melee, despite melee, in general, performing better.
-Outside of locks and rogues, the other dps classes can perform in other roles. Rogues are melee thus, looking at the point above, aren't brought in as often. Locks have always been more limited, and most in the community believed locks were underperforming entering Legion, thus rerolled.
-MM hunter and fire mages have a community perception of being OP, so they are brought in. Most people only look at overall logs and decide that Fire/MM are OP, but upon taking a closer look, that's not true for either.

This is more of community perceived ideas that led to this statistic than actually performance by the classes stated. More people want more and more ranged. I took advantage of that as I needed a team, so I rerolled from Feral druid to Hunter despite performing better as a feral druid. Having said all this, however, Helya is definitely the one fight where MM and Fire shine due to the add-heavy aspect of it. As people get more geared up, AoE will become less of an issue and you'll see more and more representation from the other classes as time goes on.

[Deleted]

Why is it people think that Hunters are strong this expansion? Unless the boss has loads of adds we suck balls. People seems to only link shit like Helya and Il'gynoth. Please i beg you, explain to me how hunters strong this expansion....

[Kallisto]

Yes, it is a complex process. But it's one that other games with even more complicated classes has balanced within a few years of release (Rift). It's a complex process that you would expect a team of designers working 40 hours a week to accomplish at SOME point during their career. And yet it never happens in WoW.

As for your sarcastic remark: yep. I could do a much better job. Most of the process involves basic mathematics.

Rift was never balanced. Some rogue classes always outperformed others by a major amount. As well as Mages, Clerics and Warriors.

As for wow balance I submit to you option 3. Balance is impossible, no matter how much tuning, how many design changes you come up with something is always going to slip by as super powerful or super weak. You'll never be able to balance an mmo the way people here like. Add to the screams of homogenization to the mix it creates a thankless, nearly impossible job.

[Ahovv]

Rift was never balanced. Some rogue classes always outperformed others by a major amount. As well as Mages, Clerics and Warriors.

As for wow balance I submit to you option 3. Balance is impossible, no matter how much tuning, how many design changes you come up with something is always going to slip by as super powerful or super weak. You'll never be able to balance an mmo the way people here like. Add to the screams of homogenization to the mix it creates a thankless, nearly impossible job.

Sorry, I meant in the context of each class' best specs performing within a few percentage points of other classes. Some fights drew out specs you normally wouldn't use, but in general each class' best specs were similar in dps to others. The largest gap would be about 10% in 2014 (in WoW terms, think of someone doing 550k ST vs 500k; not too bad compared to the current state of affairs).

For example, in Storm Legion warriors had a ranged spec (Tempest) and melee (Paragon) which were competitive with other ranged and melee, along with multiple hybrid specs throughout the expansion such as Warlord/Tempest, and multiple tank specs. Rogues had Marksman and Nightblade, with Bladedancer being utilized on burst aoe fights and Saboteur utilized on binding of Akylios, and of course their tank spec was completely competitive. Clerics had Inquisitor finally competitive as a ranged spec, and Shaman competitive as melee, with multiple healing specs used on progression. Mages had at least 4 dps specs competitive for top dps throughout the expansion.

So, within the idea that every class had at least multiple very competitive specs, that held true. Specs such as Elementalist, Druid, Necromancer, etc. were pretty awful for most of the game's history, but at least the class had other competitive options. And that is something WoW could offer at the very minimum.

One of the major hurdles here is the fact that WoW has classes with only 1 dps spec vs others which have 3, and the current legendary system being prohibitive of running all of the specs as you please. The way you would achieve class balance with having 3 dps specs, while also maintaining interesting aspects, is that you make each one desirable depending on the situation. It is downright pointless to have 3 dps specs as a mage if there is a clear winner each time a balance patch hits. Blizzard should pick a role for each spec, and tune around that while also offering encounters which support them. For example, one may be better for target-swapping and burst aoe, another may be better for passive cleave and 2-target damage, and another may be better for pure ST burn/burst. I still believe it is a flaw within the game to have some classes with 1 dps spec vs others with 3, because you do run into these problems. The community looks at specs with 1 dps spec and think, "Blizzard better give this one spec everything or we're useless!" And to an extent, that's true. If someone plans on only DPSing, they may end up being more flexible if they simply picked a different class with more options. So, a big challenge in balancing comes down to preexisting decisions Blizzard has made.

But again, even in this 3-dps-spec example, mages still have multiple competitive specs due to the way Blizzard has tuned them. Tell me something: when it was blatantly clear how far behind Ele shamans were this expansion, why didn't Blizzard drastically buff them? The fact that Ele shamans are still terrible options proves that Blizzard is incapable of analyzing the logs and getting a feel for how specs compare on real fights, and also incapable of creating their own sims for dps. Both of these should be mandatory for someone responsible for class balance and working 40/hr weeks. But again, I feel Blizzard doesn't allocate enough time toward this. I don't believe for a second that there is a team of developers working constantly on class design and balance. Where are the results? If Blizzard *actually* cared about class balance, they could substantially improve it from where we are now. Gaps of 25%+ should never, ever exist between classes.

[Deleted]

And 100% of them, is on a league with professional guilds(aka not you). In fact 0.1-5% of the guilds world over. Some of them even earns money on sponsorship.

On that level, its whatever it takes(you can't risk anything else). When it comes to everything, and you get your turn, they probably nerfed the raid anyway.

Nothing will EVER change this(it's just basic math on getting the best odds and spec stacking is a thing).

There you have it. The answer for ALL OF YOUR FRUSTRATION IN 2½ LINE.

[barackohmama]

So far legion has been worse for melee dps than ever before. Not just that mages/hunters have similar single target dps. their aoe is much better and they have it much easier dodging mechanics. WTB range unfriendly mechanics.

[Notdev]

Ignoring the fact that fire being OP is flat out wrong, them having such high representation is not a reason to nerf them, it is just the opposite.

Method had zero on their kill. On one of the few types of fights where they actually shine. Doesn't matter, moms.

[Deleted]

Ignoring the fact that fire being OP is flat out wrong, them having such high representation is not a reason to nerf them, it is just the opposite.

Method had zero on their kill. On one of the few types of fights where they actually shine. Doesn't matter, moms.

I'm a fellow mage myself so I agree that blizzard is slipping about regarding balance issues, however Method did indeed use a mage for Helya.

[Heladys]

As for your sarcastic remark: yep. I could do a much better job. Most of the process involves basic mathematics.

Yeah, sorry. You haven't established you can wipe your ass after a taco shit, nevermind balance a game across several difficulties.

[BiggestNoob]

Helya is the only good fight for Fire Mages as well. And even then it's only on the add phases mostly. I don't know about MM Hunters but Fire Mages currently are undergoing some pretty big changes and we are waiting to see if it's overall buff or nerf so stay tuned for that one.

Fire is worthless on Helya though. You need all the adds together with LB to do much to them and a few hunters don't, they can annihilate an entire group, and then cleave down tentacles. Fire mages can't cleave tentacles.

This is why Method killed mythic Helya with so many spriests. You want people who can hit multiple tentacles (priests, warlocks, hunters) and fire mages can't. We can get ignite on the blobs in P1 and LB the big wave of adds, but in reality these aren't important to killing the boss (they aren't priority target damage). Fire mage is very, very, very bad at priority target damage, especially wide cleave priority target (see Odyn logs).

Yeah, sorry. You haven't established you can wipe your ass after a taco shit, nevermind balance a game across several difficulties.

Actually it's really not difficult at all. Blizzard employees are mostly retarded and simultaneously don't care at all about balance.

[Deleted]

legion certainly takes the crown for the worst balancing so far

[last1214]

Wouldn't worry too much about mm hunter. It's cleave is litteraly getting nerfed to the ground in 7.1.5.

[idonthinksodude]

So far legion has been worse for melee dps than ever before. Not just that mages/hunters have similar single target dps. their aoe is much better and they have it much easier dodging mechanics. WTB range unfriendly mechanics.

Hahahahahahaahahaah. Try playing ranged in Legion and see if you feel the same way after a week or two.

[Justpassing]

Offtopic: I wouldn't take Ahov serious - I was a member of Exploit / Legit, the world first EU guild and all Ahov & rest of the US guild he was in was trolling the official forums with bullshit day in and day out. Now he thinks he's some hot shit but take it from someone who was better than him at what he did best - raiding in Rift.

On topic: WoW was never "balanced" or meant to be balanced; it's a rollercoaster. One day you're up, one day you're down; some get by better and some get by worse. I stopped dwelling on why it's meant to be so years ago and so should you.

[Echocho]

If they would stop completely revamping the specs every expansion they'd actually have a chance to balance them. The problem is that every spec scales differently. Meaning that even if every spec is equal at the start of an expansion they won't be at the end. When they fix it so that every spec scales equally balance will be had.

[omeomorfismo]

Ignoring the fact that fire being OP is flat out wrong, them having such high representation is not a reason to nerf them, it is just the opposite.

Method had zero on their kill. On one of the few types of fights where they actually shine. Doesn't matter, moms.

i see Qooning blue
http://www.wowprogress.com/guild/eu/tarren-mill/Method
you?