Trial of Valor Mythic Race Progression

[Inuyaki]

At the start of the expansion, they said that Legendaries would be the ilvl cap, with legendaries now being 910, it makes sense for the cap to go up.

Yes, they said that a few months ago...
And now they said that they want to have legendaries higher than other items so they feel like an upgrade! If they would have upped the cap to 910, too... that would still not be the case

[Taeldorian]

Love it, they purposely undertuned EN and knew the upcoming would be difficult. I'm glad the forums have also accepted the reality that Nighthold is going to be *SO* hard. Because like guys...Nighthold is going to be so hard...

The tin foil hat is strong with this one.

[Deleted]

If she's still alive in 2 weeks, yes, if not. No she is not overtuned. Bosses can be difficult and take time to clear, without being overtuned.

She is for sure overtuned, if Serenity&co take hundreds of wipes on Helya ( which they have at this point ) a rank 200 guild with the same or worse gear than serenity ( which will be the case since u cant get alot of gear out of ToV)will simply not be able to kill Helya, so yea shes overtuned if only 0.5%of guilds can kill smth

[Taeldorian]

Still not possible. Serenity (then method) spent about 11 (maybe 10 if you account for reclear?) days on mythic archimonde for ~470 wipes.

It's extremely possible. Sometimes they call a wipe within a few seconds due to people dieing. It varies, it's not really a thing you can calculate. Sometimes a pull can last 30 seconds, sometimes a pull can last 4 minutes, sometimes 2 minutes, etc.

- - - Updated - - -

She is for sure overtuned, if Serenity&co take hundreds of wipes on Helya ( which they have at this point ) a rank 200 guild with the same or worse gear than serenity ( which will be the case since u cant get alot of gear out of ToV)will simply not be able to kill Helya, so yea shes overtuned if only 0.5%of guilds can kill smth

Lol what? Every single time a new raid comes out it usually takes them 200+ wipes and sometimes even more. Archimonde took 470 wipes yet everyone was able to kill him. Blackhand took 300+ and everyone was able to kill him. There's a huge difference between difficult and overtuned. Helya is difficult.

[Emerald Archer]

Yes, they said that a few months ago...
And now they said that they want to have legendaries higher than other items so they feel like an upgrade! If they would have upped the cap to 910, too... that would still not be the case

Where did they say that?

[aGit]

Do you have proof of this? The highest ive seen is 895 (with the exception being the 910 legendaries)

there was a bug when tf 895 gear from last reset got the +5 ilvl boost ToV gear got this reset, it would show up as 900, i believe these were then later on reverted back to 895.

[Emerald Archer]

She is for sure overtuned, if Serenity&co take hundreds of wipes on Helya ( which they have at this point ) a rank 200 guild with the same or worse gear than serenity ( which will be the case since u cant get alot of gear out of ToV)will simply not be able to kill Helya, so yea shes overtuned if only 0.5%of guilds can kill smth

Lol... That's not how it works. The end boss for almost every raid ever (Aside from a few, eg xavius) has taken 200+ wipes.

They're creating strats, guilds who come after, will use already perfected strats. That alone takes hundreds of wipes off what they would have done.

Mythic is not for everyone, and obviously not for you. Yes, the earlier mythic bosses tend to be aimed more for everyone, but the last boss in this short a raid, and the last few in a larger raid, should be very very hard, like 500 wipe hard. Plenty of guilds will kill Helya, it shouldn't be undertuned to satisfy bads.

[Anbokr]

No, they can't. The highest ilvl currently (aside from Legendaries) is 895

People that got titanforged 895 gear from ToV week 1 had their gear bumped up to 900 after the +5 retroactive hotfix. Blizz fcked up.

Dunno if it was ever fixed or not but my buddy claims to have a 900 relic.

[Deleted]

The only epic 900 items are those that were 895 from tov and got bumped up 5 ilvls. They are the exception and probably very rare so it actually doesnt matter. Point is its very hard to get to 890+ before nighthold comes out. So mythic TOV will be pretty hard for quite a while but thats probably exactly as blizzard wants it.

Note that the Curve achieve for helya from tov will be active until tomb of sargeras instead of nighthold. What we are getting right now is a lot like the wrath progression path. Where guilds are often still progressing on an older raid even if a newer one is already out. They complement each other instead of flat out replacing it.

[Deleted]

Why top guilds spend so many hours on some bosses ?
- no video, so they need to discuss about a strat, test it, until they see it's not possible (with the comp you have/because of enrage/ etc)/too difficult to execute/other reasons. Only that can take a lot ot time between 2 pulls
- no accurate timers on BW/DBM: they need to create/change them pull after pull
- dungeon journal alone helps but it tooks all the time few tries to understand how an ability exactly works (and sometimes you can understand it after the death of the boss ), see what the boss really do, where adds spawn, even why they spawn, etc

A single stream/screen on a top boss like that can help other guilds, so when everyone will have exact DBM/BW timers, with a working strat other guilds used, Helya will become a difficult boss, but not "impossible", and new guilds on progress on the boss will often do less pulls than top guilds.

We can even take guarm as an example, i'm sure several guilds did it with one tank and knew it was possible since ptr, but i won't be surprised too if some guilds learnt that from a stream and were able to kill the boss without thinking about that by themselves. Same with butcher with the pool strat (i'm still against stream on top bosses currently on progress btw)

[dakalro]

The thing a lot of people don't seem to get is that the game now is very different already to what it was in WoD. You can't just say Archimonde lived 9 days, EN lasted 1 day so it was undertuned.

Top 10 guilds killing Guarm, average ilvl was 885.015. For a boss dropping 885 loot.
Top 10* guilds killing Archi, average ilvl 723.22 - for a boss dropping ilvl 735.

WF/TF/legendary + ability to infinitely farm M+ has completely changed how geared power guilds can be when attacking progress. If fights are tuned to be challenging for them, whilst wearing gear at the same ilvl that the boss will drop....

*not including Method since WoWprogress has no record of their ilvl at 1st kill

The amount of ilvl TF can give is simply too much. It's irrelevant for people that play a lot since they will get a lot of gear chances but luck plays a big part in this.
The idea of TF was probably to keep players doing instances even if they overgear the base ilvl, to have more alive instances for other people gearing up. But when you get 880 players only playing with 880 people in normal raids/mythics ... you've missed the mark, the geared players don't help the lower geared players, you just get another separate ecosystem.

M+ boosts sort of got this almost working but even that is failing when boosts start from 5+, 7+ nowadays. People that could help in 2-4+ are busy getting boosted themselves

[Deleted]

Have all the guilds that have killed Guarm so far had the 5% dmg trait on the majority of there players?

[Tehterokkar]

Have all the guilds that have killed Guarm so far had the 5% dmg trait on the majority of there players?

Nope. I think some guilds had as few as 3 ppl have it.

And I was comparing my guild's and Danish Terrace's DPS on Odyn(not exactly accurate, but still gives some idea), our kill was 10s faster, with only 1 person surviving and soloing boss for last 10s. DT had over half of their raid survive. And none of our DPS have 5% dmg traits.

[Adramelch]

Have all the guilds that have killed Guarm so far had the 5% dmg trait on the majority of there players?

Nope. Last I checked most guilds had it on less than half the raid.

[Puupi]

Link to that? I cant remember any such statement.

Can't remember the exact place I read/heard that, but it was somewhere around Blizzcon time. Might have been in a Q&A stream, too.

They specifically said Helya is tuned for 905 ilvl (now what does that mean in comparison to other bosses is another question by itself) and isn't necessarily even expected to be killed before Nighthold opens.

[Xrxes]

Can't remember the exact place I read/heard that, but it was somewhere around Blizzcon time. Might have been in a Q&A stream, too.

They specifically said Helya is tuned for 905 ilvl (now what does that mean in comparison to other bosses is another question by itself) and isn't necessarily even expected to be killed before Nighthold opens.

I doubt this very much. A boss cannot be tuned for an ilvl higher than what they dropped. If she drops 895 mythic gear, she cannot be tuned for 905 ilvl.

She may be tuned for 35+ artifact traits on all members and 890+ gear. That is perfectly possible, and since top guilds have an average ilvl of 886-887 now, than her tuning would be quite brutal indeed at this level of tuning.

But a 905 tuning would be absolutely impossible with 886-887 average guild ilvl and not worth it .

[Dopefreshx]

A boss cannot be tuned for an ilvl higher than what they dropped.

I think there's a difference between shouldn't be and can't be.

[Deleted]

Have all the guilds that have killed Guarm so far had the 5% dmg trait on the majority of there players?

We killed it with 2 tanks, 4 healers and 5% on four of our DPS.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4V-auiPbBo

[jjbarea]

I think there's a difference between shouldn't be and can't be.

yeah people really made blizzard mad with all the "ez en" now you will all regret it.

[Moshots]

Nope. I think some guilds had as few as 3 ppl have it.

And I was comparing my guild's and Danish Terrace's DPS on Odyn(not exactly accurate, but still gives some idea), our kill was 10s faster, with only 1 person surviving and soloing boss for last 10s. DT had over half of their raid survive. And none of our DPS have 5% dmg traits.

We had 0 on our roster with the trait Highest in our guild is 34 traits and we killed it 1 sec before enrage timer.

2 tanks 4 healers 3 Spriests.