[7.0 Retribution Paladin] Guide and Discussion

[Tonyman64]

Could someone point me to the stat weights if you do have the back? I also saw that at 25% crit people swap to Virtue's Blade, but do I still do that with the back piece? Blade of Wrath seems to help proc a lot more spenders.

If you care about stat weights, you really need to sim them for your character with your gear. They vary pretty heavily.

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unfortunately was not not blessed with the "blessing of useful legendary" but the big benefit we get from haste and the cloak are the additional GCDs within the 4 second window increasing the uptime of the Buff.
with sufficient crit the triple crit dmg of VB adds more DMG than the increased amount of TVs you can put out. This is single target only in cases were you have to cleave for longer periods Bow will give you more benefit like in M+

Even with around 28% crit and haste VB still sims lower for me.

[Deleted]

unfortunately was not not blessed with the "blessing of useful legendary" but the big benefit we get from haste and the cloak are the additional GCDs within the 4 second window increasing the uptime of the Buff.
with sufficient crit the triple crit dmg of VB adds more DMG than the increased amount of TVs you can put out. This is single target only in cases were you have to cleave for longer periods Bow will give you more benefit like in M+

I got the cloak and tried going as high as 34-35% haste and i concluded its not worth it. Due to server lag you just can't fit that 4th global in. Maybe further into the expansion with higher haste values we will be able to keep it up 100% of the time, but outside of crusade and/or heroism, i just can't do it.

[Ocedic]

I got the cloak and tried going as high as 34-35% haste and i concluded its not worth it. Due to server lag you just can't fit that 4th global in. Maybe further into the expansion with higher haste values we will be able to keep it up 100% of the time, but outside of crusade and/or heroism, i just can't do it.

About how much haste is needed to do 3 abilities in the 4s window?

[Deleted]

About how much haste is needed to do 3 abilities in the 4s window?

More than 35%. Thats the most i could test with. I would think something in the 40-50% may do it. Next tier of the following one. I'm sure it will be atainable at some point.

[Deleted]

Even with around 28% crit and haste VB still sims lower for me.

how high is your haste currently? For me with around 20% haste and 26% crit VB slowly started to come out ahead

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I got the cloak and tried going as high as 34-35% haste and i concluded its not worth it. Due to server lag you just can't fit that 4th global in. Maybe further into the expansion with higher haste values we will be able to keep it up 100% of the time, but outside of crusade and/or heroism, i just can't do it.

Thanks for the insight. at least we now know we don´t have to push haste to the current limit. This leaves us with high haste levels still being good for going Zeal/BoW or even Zeal/VB

[Lumineus]

More than 35%. Thats the most i could test with. I would think something in the 40-50% may do it. Next tier of the following one. I'm sure it will be atainable at some point.

I've only got 26% and I can get blade+CS+TV off inside the window, assuming blade of justice is actually available to use. Unless you mean you're trying for five GCDs in four seconds, which, no, is not really possible without an utterly absurd amount of haste (probably around 60% to account for latency).

[Anardel]

Today my second legendary finally dropped. But it was legendary bracers with the Shield of Vengeance proc. I'm so dissapointed

[Deleted]

Today my second legendary finally dropped. But it was legendary bracers with the Shield of Vengeance proc. I'm so dissapointed

this thing will save your life from the brainfuck of your raidmates or your own depends be grateful! it is at least somewhat useful.

[Deleted]

Is there a point where haste becomes less valuable? I'm asking because I'm at 24% hast and can choose gear that has more less haste and more crit but still going to land at 23%. Also the rings are not enchanted with haste. Should I go for more haste?

[Deleted]

Is there a point where haste becomes less valuable? I'm asking because I'm at 24% hast and can choose gear that has more less haste and more crit but still going to land at 23%. Also the rings are not enchanted with haste. Should I go for more haste?

the easy answer is yes until 30% haste and crit the complicated and only correct answer is you have to sim it for your own character since our stats are in constant flux and even if that comes up negative keep the item until you again get a haste item and sim it in this context again

[Morally Grey Storm]

Finally got an upgrade!
Now I'm at 16% haste ;(
Feth me backwards.

[Wrecktangle]

Today my second legendary finally dropped. But it was legendary bracers with the Shield of Vengeance proc. I'm so dissapointed

Don't be. Those degenerate as fuck bracers are probably the only reason I am still playing. So much fun to have/use.

[Morally Grey Storm]

So I was pondering...
As I've said, I now have 16% haste, which is not great.
SimC tells me Versa is my top secondary, followed by crit and only then by haste.

Ergo, all my gems and chants are +versa.
Should I regem/chant for + haste?

Any piece of advice will be appreciated!

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Wdps Str Vers Crit Haste Mastery
Scale Factors 22.45 9.30 8.13 7.54 7.44 5.97
Normalized 2.41 1.00 0.87 0.81 0.80 0.64

Here' are my stat priorities ~_~

[Inb4gkick]

So I was pondering...
As I've said, I now have 16% haste, which is not great.
SimC tells me Versa is my top secondary, followed by crit and only then by haste.

Ergo, all my gems and chants are +versa.
Should I regem/chant for + haste?
Any piece of advice will be appreciated!

I'm going to assume you simmed your character and just replaced the ids/values for the vers enchants/gems for haste enchants/gems. But if you haven't then see how that plays out. Not saying that the 1-2k haste you'd get from different gems/enchants would change much but it might make it feel better.

[Morally Grey Storm]

I'm going to assume you simmed your character and just replaced the ids/values for the vers enchants/gems for haste enchants/gems. But if you haven't then see how that plays out. Not saying that the 1-2k haste you'd get from different gems/enchants would change much but it might make it feel better.

No, I did not. Truth be told, I don't actually know how to use Simc that well ^^

General feel is of no concern to me actually, I am used to playing with low haste already , and tFoJ+BoW rarely leave me idling.

Anyway, could you please explain how do I replace ids/values?

[Inb4gkick]

Anyway, could you please explain how do I replace ids/values?

Get the Simcraft exporter addon and get your gear on yadda yadda type /simc and it'll give you a big text window that you can copy. For example this is mine:
talents=1112122
spec=retribution
artifact=2:0:0:0:0:40:1:41:3:42:3:43:3:44:3:47:3:49:1:50:3:51:3:53:3:54:1:350:1:351:1:353: 1:1275:1

head=,id=141459,bonus_id=1477/3336
neck=,id=132444,enchant_id=5321,bonus_id=1811,gem_id=130221
shoulder=,id=139233,bonus_id=1805/1502/3337
back=,id=133771,enchant_id=5311,bonus_id=3418/1532/3337
chest=,id=138216,bonus_id=1806/1502
shirt=,id=98085
wrist=,id=140846,bonus_id=1811
hands=,id=134356,bonus_id=3418/1542/3337
waist=,id=139227,bonus_id=1805/1808/1492/3336,gem_id=130216
legs=,id=139230,bonus_id=1806/1512/3336
feet=,id=139234,bonus_id=1805/40/1487
finger1=,id=142172,enchant_id=5424,bonus_id=3453/1477/3336
finger2=,id=134525,enchant_id=5424,bonus_id=3418/1522/3336
trinket1=,id=133644,bonus_id=3418/1517/1813
trinket2=,id=139321,bonus_id=1806/1502
main_hand=,id=120978,bonus_id=737,relic_id=1727:1497:3336/1805:1492:3336/3468:1492,gem_id=136717/139266/142519/0

What you'd do is on the appropriate slots replace the enchant_id values and gem_id values with the appropriate ones. I'm a cheap ass and have 150 haste on my rings so if I wanted to know what the 200 haste/verse enchant would do to me I'd just replace the enchant_id=5424 with 5428 for 200 haste or 5430 for 200 verse. For gems 150/200 haste gem_ids are 130216 and 130220 and 150/200 verse gem_ids are 130217 and 130221 respectively. 200 Strength gems have an ID of 130246. If I wanted to see if I should shell out for the 200 strength or 150 strength cape enchant I'd use enchant_id of 5434 for 200 strength to cape or 5431 for 150 strength to cape OR i could keep using the 100 haste/movespeed with enchant_id of 5311.
My current neck enchant is the shit versatility so it has a 75 verse enchant giving it the enchant_id 5321 and the 150 verse gem. I don't know the 75 haste to neck enchantid b/c I don't have it on any necklaces but Hidden Satyr is 5439. You'd just go in and copy paste different characters and change enchant/gem IDs until you got what you wanted. You can also do this for your artifact relics. Askmrrobot has all the relic ids/gem_ids for relics and the various wf/tf stuff you'd need for them to copy/paste.

For the record there is probably an easier way than having to go back and forth to manually edit enchants/gems before I sim but I haven't bothered finding it.

[Deleted]

I've only got 26% and I can get blade+CS+TV off inside the window, assuming blade of justice is actually available to use. Unless you mean you're trying for five GCDs in four seconds, which, no, is not really possible without an utterly absurd amount of haste (probably around 60% to account for latency).

You just described 3 globals. We were talking 4. I can do 3 easily. I do it with 20% haste. Problem is when you have to refresh judgment. Usually its where it falls off if you don't have enough haste for another GCD.

I suppose you can add one if you are counting the global lock after casting the FV, but it doesn't make much sense because you don't need to wait that last GCD to get the new TV in, if i can explain it. It cancels itself out. You can only count it once.

[Lumineus]

You just described 3 globals. We were talking 4.

Yeah, that's why it was confusing. I described three because the first is implied by using TV to generate the window in the first place. Anyway, what we're really talking about is GCD thresholds, not full GCDs, which is why you need 60% instead of like 90%.

[Calimon-ZJ]

Any trinket recommendations for mythic+ ive got some good stat sticks i think work well on bosses and trash. FCM doesnt seem all that good for the trash.

[Taeldorian]

You just described 3 globals. We were talking 4. I can do 3 easily. I do it with 20% haste. Problem is when you have to refresh judgment. Usually its where it falls off if you don't have enough haste for another GCD.

I suppose you can add one if you are counting the global lock after casting the FV, but it doesn't make much sense because you don't need to wait that last GCD to get the new TV in, if i can explain it. It cancels itself out. You can only count it once.

So I'm a bit confused here. Rets my OS but I still gear it heavily and play it a lot. I've heard about a crit/vers build and I've actually seen a few Paladins go for it. Shouldice is a really good ret paladin and he went for it. What do you think about it mate? I'm at 16% haste, 29% crit, 22% mastery and 8% vers.

It's definitely been a dps gain for me when I traded out a lot of haste gear for crit gear. Have you tried gearing towards crit/Vers?

Quoted you because you know your shit and I'm just looking for an opinion. The post I quoted didn't really have anything to do with my question/statement, sorry.