So no interesting disc changes in 7.1.5 :(

[Raxz]

There are some other changes that would make it more forgiving (would need addtional balancing, obviously):
Dispel applying atonement would be nice.
Another cheap dot with a long duration that can be up on a limited number of targets only (1-2).
Another longtime atonement applicator that can be up on only a few targets (2-3).
An ability that resets the duration of all atonements and isn't on the gcd, or one that applies atonement to everyone for a few seconds.

To add to that I've seen people suggesting maybe disc should have a way to have perma atonement on the tank (think Beacon of Light) but like you said this would require some rebalancing.

[W3Re]

Would really like to see something to help disc support tank healing as well as a last tier talent.

My thinking revolved around something in the likes of:
Place a buff on a certain person. While the buff lasts, the target takes 10% healing (number is a placeholder, to be debated) from each target healed through atonement. That would actually ensure that this does not get out of hand in 5mans (where disc is already quite good) but would give us a useful last tier talent and some tank assistance in raids.

Also, something I would like to see would be having grace granting a base increase but also scaling off mastery so that mastery is not rendered completely useless when having to switch to targeted healing instead of atonement based only.

[Puupi]

Also, something I would like to see would be having grace granting a base increase but also scaling off mastery so that mastery is not rendered completely useless when having to switch to targeted healing instead of atonement based only.

Grace should be a baseline ability and scale from mastery.

[VigilantRose]

Disc has zero room for error and heavily punishes you for a single mistake like fat-fingering Plea at 20 stacks. The problem is not "disc is hard", it's "other healers can make mistakes and still do well". You mess up one burst phase and you're behind the entire fight, but a shaman still has his trusty Chain-Heal to save the day

Disc can't easily be fixed without becoming OP. Atonement duration or application changes are the only way to make it more forgiving, yet also make it broke as fug.

My suspicion is that they're stuck with the basic design of Discipline for this expansion, but we'll be getting a complete revamp next expansion.

[worcester]

People may flame me for this but I actually thought that the MoP version of atonement was actually great. The overpowered part was Spirit Shell and Divine Aegis (more so with divine star) but I actually thought one-to-one healing per point of damage of atonement was pretty balanced besides being a full smart heal.

Right now, atonement is one-to-N heal per point of damage which of course is fine but adds some complexity seen in no other spec. The number of enemy targets you can sw: p also increases the value of each additional atonement such that you would want to keep N sw: p for N atonement.

I think applying atonement as a buff should go away and atonement healing should be returned to 1-1 healing per damage. Then they should find another way for disc to interact with raid frames if they don't want them tunneling the boss. (I would add that there would also be nothing wrong with brainless atonement healing, as if any traditional healing is difficult...)

Basically, what I want is MoP atonement without the shields (possibly semi-smart instead of full smart) with procs that promote raid frame interaction. Right now, its forced interaction to apply a pseudo-Beacon of light that works for damage (which isn't bad, but I honestly don't see why people have to jump through hoops to just get some healing in)

[Iatros]

If they just stop nerfing disc dmg, would be really nice. Disc dmg already scales really poorly. On 7.3, im afraid disc dmg will have minimal impact on raids...
A good countermeasure do it would be to change mastery, so it buffs the dmg and the healimg less, so the final buff stills the same healing output, but with a better dmg scaling!

[Mazeari]

If they just stop nerfing disc dmg, would be really nice. Disc dmg already scales really poorly. On 7.3, im afraid dosc dmg will have minimal impact on raids...

This, my damage doesn't seem to go up at all. And they should make atonement work like dots. 33% of the remaining time added on new application. That's all I want.

[Supliftz]

Disc has zero room for error and heavily punishes you for a single mistake like fat-fingering Plea at 20 stacks. The problem is not "disc is hard", it's "other healers can make mistakes and still do well". You mess up one burst phase and you're behind the entire fight, but a shaman still has his trusty Chain-Heal to save the day

Disc can't easily be fixed without becoming OP. Atonement duration or application changes are the only way to make it more forgiving, yet also make it broke as fug.

why is it a problem that disc is harder than other specs? The reward for perfect play is there, you just have to get good.

[Flurryfang]

So I think we are actually doing quite fine as soon as we hit a decent gear level and once you have mastered the mechanics.
Still I'm quite disappointed that blizzard does basically nothing.
We have a bunch of useless and uninteresting talents.
A bunch of pointless artifact traits.
Some mechanics that are really hard to master and impossible to deal with in a good way without a lot of UI customization, scaring away all the new players.
A bunch of sub par skills forcing us into the one thing we do really well, which is burst aoe.
I was hoping for more...

Don't be hasty my friend. Things are still going in and many more class changes/tweaks are coming undtl 7.1.5 release.

[Raxz]

why is it a problem that disc is harder than other specs? The reward for perfect play is there, you just have to get good.

Again, the problem is that the skill floor is SO LOW that a bad disc player can end up entirely unworkable. They could be overgeared for the dungeon by 50 ilvls and still be unworkable.

The problem isn't that I personally can't play it. I probably could with some practice if I thought the way it plays sounded even remotely fun. It's that I have to feel the need to decline discs from groups even though I know it's a perfectly viable spec on paper.

[Deleted]

Atonement would be nice to make bubles instead of a heal.

[anon5123]

Atonement would be nice to make bubles instead of a heal.

No. We're not going back to heinously OP absorb mechanics. Blizz specifically nerfed PWS and changed Paladin's mastery because absorbs are too difficult to balance.

[Supliftz]

Again, the problem is that the skill floor is SO LOW that a bad disc player can end up entirely unworkable. They could be overgeared for the dungeon by 50 ilvls and still be unworkable.

The problem isn't that I personally can't play it. I probably could with some practice if I thought the way it plays sounded even remotely fun. It's that I have to feel the need to decline discs from groups even though I know it's a perfectly viable spec on paper.

This isn't exactly a new thing really. Again, don't really see a problem. The spec rewards good play with solid healing and passive dps.

[Raxz]

This isn't exactly a new thing really. Again, don't really see a problem. The spec rewards good play with solid healing and passive dps.

There's no way for me to whisper someone and say "prove to me you actually know how to play disc." They can have a golden healer proving grounds but they did it as Holy for all I know and proving grounds has no baring on your ability to play the class while dealing with dungeon/raid mechanics anyway.

I'm not against the spec rewarding good play. I'm against it punishing bad play as much as it does. Beating less-than-optimal players into the ground to the point where I have to recommend to casuals not to go near a class that sounds like it's fun to them (seriously, it's awkward to try and politely discourage someone from playing disc because, frankly, you know they're too bad for it) has no effect on elitists but just makes the game worse for the rest of the player base.

[Supliftz]

There's no way for me to whisper someone and say "prove to me you actually know how to play disc." They can have a golden healer proving grounds but they did it as Holy for all I know and proving grounds has no baring on your ability to play the class while dealing with dungeon/raid mechanics anyway.

I'm not against the spec rewarding good play. I'm against it punishing bad play as much as it does. Beating less-than-optimal players into the ground to the point where I have to recommend to casuals not to go near a class that sounds like it's fun to them (seriously, it's awkward to try and politely discourage someone from playing disc because, frankly, you know they're too bad for it) has no effect on elitists but just makes the game worse for the rest of the player base.

The problem with these calls to make disc easier to play is almost no matter what, you're going to make the spec stronger.

I would really like to see you propose a change that doesn't directly buff the class, and makes it easier to play.

[Deleted]

The problem with these calls to make disc easier to play is almost no matter what, you're going to make the spec stronger.

I would really like to see you propose a change that doesn't directly buff the class, and makes it easier to play.

I agree almost anything would make the spec stronger, and I personally think that it's in a decent spot. My main gripes with it is the massive dependence on mana trinkets and/or innervates. I know it can work without innervates (I personally rarely have them and when I do, my druid seems to plomp them more or less randomly - them feels when yesterday on ilgy he dropped it on me while I was drinking sitting on a flower), but the mana trinkets feel mandatory. By comparison, I don't have anywhere close to same issues on holy, I can use a throughput trinket and a mana one just fine.

I see two things that "pros" don't really do anyway: using plea on high atonement stacks and spamming smite. What I think makes disc "hard to play" is the very narrow time windows you get to do your job: it's like you either got that 3-4 seconds window, or you suck. I think plea cost could have a bit more forgiving curve (not saying the whole mana increase should go away, but it could be more forgiving). Spamming plea will never get you the results of radiance atonement stacking, so throughput wise that will stay relevant. I can't tell the impact a less punishing Plea would have on throughput, and how it could be balanced: maybe a talent that could put a small cd on plea but remove the increasing mana cost effect? all in all, it could create a different type of gameplay for disc that would be less dependent on very narrow windows of opportunity: kinda like flintoiding (which is something easier to grasp than the burst gameplay), but not using shadowmend.

Smite could do with a mana cost decrease. We already spend mana on atonement applicators (and at a number of atonements where smite healing really matters applying atonement is not cheap). It really feels wrong for the "dps healer" to need to stop dps, when all other healers have their dps spells free: yes, I know they don't heal through dmg, but our dps spells don't heal on their own, and the shitty smite absorb doesn't feel worth the mana cost (maybe it is, and I'm wrong).

[Mazeari]

Smite could do with a mana cost decrease. We already spend mana on atonement applicators (and at a number of atonements where smite healing really matters applying atonement is not cheap). It really feels wrong for the "dps healer" to need to stop dps, when all other healers have their dps spells free: yes, I know they don't heal through dmg, but our dps spells don't heal on their own, and the shitty smite absorb doesn't feel worth the mana cost (maybe it is, and I'm wrong).

One of the main reasons I went holy for helya hc. As disc I just stood still with nothing to do on top of the platforms. + The healing is just smoother on that fight as holy. and 83k dps aint bad, as holy either.

[Deleted]

Grace scaling with mastery would be awesome, so you can use your raid gear for 5 man.
Plea manacap at 6 stacks would help a lot and won't brake our class at all.
Stacking atonment (with cd or whatever) would be nice to not fall into the shadowmend spam, when someone takes to much damage.

A decent 4+ group heal would be nice.

[Iannis]

I personally would be happy if they'd undo the SW: p and Forbidden Flame nerfs. I know the atonement hot from SW: p isn't much. But it's something and
I find it fun to keep the dots&hots rolling

[Noradin]

To add to that I've seen people suggesting maybe disc should have a way to have perma atonement on the tank (think Beacon of Light) but like you said this would require some rebalancing.

Yes, that was my forth point, basically