We need to get rid of boring RNG.

[Deleted]

Assassination is good for everything else but AoE burst, while outlaw sucks dick ( with a reasonable chance atleast, because of bad rolls, if fights end early 'tis all good ) on cleave/single target fights

Different specs, different advantages

How can you say assasination has no aoe burst when Poison Bomb is like one of the strongest aoe abilities in the game? We can have the best aoe in the game with huge luck but 0 control over it. That's not right.. I'm not saying that they should give us that much aoe burst on demand, but they could at least make the player more involved. It's just not a healthy mechanic having to rely on RNG to deal 50% of your damage. Hell I'd rather have it deleted from the game than keep it as it is.

I don't really see what the spec comparison has to do with anything btw.

[Flurryfang]

The wierd thing is, is that they could easily fix both Assa and Outlaw RNG without really changing the specs at all.

For assa rogues, simply make BotA be a buff, that makes the debuff be applied on your next rupture. That way you can control its effect, giving the player more freedom and yet it would not ruin the spec at all. For Bag of Tricks, first of all, make the proc chance visible. Make it scale with combo points (the more CP you use, the higher chance for proc) and maybe let it be a 100% proc, if you have hit 5 or more targets with FoK in the last 5 sec. Again, you give the player a better chance to understand the RNG and also to control it, yet without changing the playstyle at all. Players are still going to keep rupture up at all times and in AoE fights, people will still be multidotters on 4 or less targets, but when we are in big AoE situations, we actually have a chance to participate.

And Outlaw. The big thing i would change is RtB. Here is my fix: Make it give 3 buffs all the time, and only 3 buffs. Make the RNG thing be that you could get different once, but you will never be in a 1 or 5 buff situation. That way you raise the minimum dmg in the spell and decrease the max in the spell. You would also maybe be able to avoid some madness, which you get with 5 buffs.

So with these few fixes, Assa and Outlaw would be a lot more fun to play and RNG would play a less factor. You would have better control over you own gameplay and RNG would have alot less impact on your dps when you look at a fight-to-fight perspective. Yet, the playstyle would change very little and there would be a very low chance for players to be alienated by the fix.

[pies1]

It is? Since when? Since they decided rogues were pirates a few months ago?

Gambling has never been a part of rogue fantasy for the past decade, in fact rogues were known for being less dependent on RNG than other classes which contributed to their popularity especially in pvp. Reliable stuns, reliable CC, reliable burst, reliable defensives (jk).

I don't know why the devs need sycophants defending their fuck ups.

This. The main draw of combat as a spec was its consistency.

[skindown]

How can you say assasination has no aoe burst when Poison Bomb is like one of the strongest aoe abilities in the game? We can have the best aoe in the game with huge luck but 0 control over it. That's not right.. I'm not saying that they should give us that much aoe burst on demand, but they could at least make the player more involved. It's just not a healthy mechanic having to rely on RNG to deal 50% of your damage. Hell I'd rather have it deleted from the game than keep it as it is.

I don't really see what the spec comparison has to do with anything btw.

Because you can't control it, you need to count on what you actually can pull off instead of what RNG can give you, if the RNG helps you out? Great, if it doesn't? Well, do more Envenoms, it wasn't a skill meant to give us one more amazing source of AoE damage, a burst one, which we don't need because we're great on every other scenario

The spec comparison is so you can picture that every class needs to have one down side, what people has suggested over the time is beyong my mind, it's "if the target you Envenom has x or more targets near him, then Bag of Tricks always procs" <--- do you have any idea how friggin' op that would be?

And please, trying to balance it around low keystones just so you can compete with monks/fire mages/DHs/MM hunters is pretty stupid, it works on high keystones, and even without Bag of Tricks we work on high keystones ( even on medium ones ), because of the AMAZING sustained damage we got ( ~5 targets we can put up 500~600k DPS easy peezy after the trash pack is down )

I agree that RNG is dumb, that's the whole reason I don't enjoy outlaw, because RtB aside, it's a pretty fun spec, but we're pretty viable in AoE already even without the Bag of Tricks procs, it's just that other classes burst the mobs down a lil' bit faster on low keystones and we don't have the time to setup, but medium/high keystones are a total different thing, this week I did maybe 3 or 4 Maw of Souls on level 10~11, even two chested one on level 10, and on all of them, my overall DPS ( through the whole dungeon ) was comparable or higher than my peers, I'm not saying I'm a pro or that they suck, it's just that it kinda of evens out, we have a little less on AoE burst that the sustained will bring up, and we TOTALLY compensate on bosses

[Deleted]

The unfairness is what really irks me. Fire mages especially get lots of tools and iterations of their abilities to lessen the impact of their dependance on a single percent chance (their crit) and rogues (and most likely many other classes too) get not even acknowledgements of the inherent weaknesses of their respective proc based abilities. There is a big difference between a random stat proc of a trinket or having your artifact gold trait on a roll of a dice.

Well if it makes you feel better it's not just rogues. 2 out of 3 fury warrior gold traits proc on random as well. So i can feel your pain and yes it is frustrating but at least you do good damage and when procs happen you skyrocket. Some others (like dem fury warriors) do no damage and then our trait procs are we drop our cooldowns to do no damage faster. Blizzard just needs some hearing aid.

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It is? Since when? Since they decided rogues were pirates a few months ago?

Gambling has never been a part of rogue fantasy for the past decade, in fact rogues were known for being less dependent on RNG than other classes which contributed to their popularity especially in pvp. Reliable stuns, reliable CC, reliable burst, reliable defensives (jk).

I don't know why the devs need sycophants defending their fuck ups.

We are talking about the fantasy of the role playing part of the class, not the mehanics. Learn to deal with it or reroll. No reason to be a dick to the people on the forum. Devs didn't fuck up any thing. It's working as intended and they like it and feel it fits the spec.

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I don't see how gambling has to do anything with the assasination rogue fantasy though. A serious assasin leaves nothing to luck. I'm pretty sure that quote is used among many assasin characters in RPG games. Little RNG to spice things up btw, (think of wod assasination for example with blindside procs) is a GOOD thing. But when an ability does 50% of you aoe damage, then you should AT LEAST have some control over it.

Sorry if you think I'm some spoiled kid for being frustrated and not appreciate such nonsense.

That maybe true, but I wasn't talking just about assassination. On the other hand you're maybe right here about 50% of AoE being a proc. Then again I don't think that assissnation is designed to be strong in AoE. It should be decent but outlaw(the old combat) was always the AoE/cleave spec, or rather AoE was its strong side.

[Khas]

I think a good solution would be to make a poison bomb a player proc, same like pistol shot or blindside back in a day. It procs and you can use it when you feel is best. That way you have some control atleast. There is still RNG involved when it procs but you control when to use it.

[skindown]

I think a good solution would be to make a poison bomb a player proc, same like pistol shot or blindside back in a day. It procs and you can use it when you feel is best. That way you have some control atleast. There is still RNG involved when it procs but you control when to use it.

This is the best idea there is, on both BotA and Bag of Tricks

[ymirsson]

We are talking about the fantasy of the role playing part of the class, not the mehanics. Learn to deal with it or reroll.

The RP part of rogue reads "Endless possibilities"

As in, a rogue can or can not be based on gambling, luck or kicking himself (or herself) in the face. Rogue is in fact one of the broadest character concepts in WoW.