Is WoW not becoming too complex, especially for new players?

[Deleted]

It is. But that's not the biggest issue. It's the gear complexity.

They have AP, artifact trees, talent trees, PvP trees, lots of abilities and lots of complex gear options. I think they should make gearing up simpler. I don't think that even mythic raiders are very amused about how the stats and gear work atm. It's too much. For a new player...? No chance.

They need to do something, but as usual i only see stubburness coming from the devs in this regard. Gear and stats need to be simplified. Flavor should come from all the talent trees we got.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

You'll be surprised to know that there was a reddit post the other day from someone that went to lvl 16 weapon with no AK because he didn't know it existed. And there were quite a few people commenting on it that they didn't also know that it existed.

That is surprising, considering that there ia quest introducing AK, and I believe the AK "trainer" has some sort of icon on the map or over its head.

If having to pay attention is what makes a game complex or too hard, then how do these people figure out life in general?

[Hyperborean]

my gf who hasnt played a game since she clocked daggerfall, made a char in WoD. she googled a server that spoke her language, and made a draenei shaman. note that she had to go to ab outside source to choose a server; something you do before you even create a char. she quit that shaman at 65 because she was being farmed: she was on a PvP without knowing what that acronym meant.

there are many aspects of wow that can be streamlined, and many player expectations that can be managed. my gf was expecting an experience similar to what I've had, meet people, slay monsters, have fun. instead she got camped by a rogue and quit because she would have to level all over again to avoid that.

wows complexity is all to do with managing player expectations, something that i feel has been ignored for new players. my gf came from an rpg background, recognised that in wow, but because of an unwitting decision to be on pvp her rpg experience was ruined.

i feel like situations like this come up for new players all the time. we see it when they dont know what a dungeon composition looks like, like how they arent simply dps by default, and instead have a horrible time as heirloomed powerlevelers rage at them for not also being heirloomed powerlevelers. this can be fixed with existing systems:

restrict new player specs to dps, and design tutorials and re implement existing scenarios to teach them what tanking and healing look like, BEFORE they have to prove it to another player, and protect them from this inevitable yet avoidable rage.

have a big icon come up periodically whenever an artifact research is ready (or even a slit empty). you all know it would make your life easier too, even if it is *pandering to noobs*

everyone plays for a different reason, and just cause someone isnt raising mythics with a direhard crew of 10 years experience, it doesnt mean theyre not entitled to have a positive experience. they pay the sub, they deserve to have fun, even if that means grinding azeroth loremaster with a 750 artweap and no AK or AP


stop being elitists dickheads
*end rant*

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Not everyone does every quest out there, I think you are just ignoring that fact.

Also you are ignoring the fact that a new player won't know what anything is and until you look on the web there is no way for you to figure out artifacts or anything rly. You just have to go and read guides for it.

You can even open your artifact interface and I think it references AK there too.. with the "0" on it .. (assuming they didn't know what it was) ... I mean again.. paying attention =complexity now?

Basic rotations are easy to figure out.. no one expects a new play to stance dance or something.. but shit.. just paying attention to quests?!?!?!

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

That's because people don't read. It's not even like it's a huge deal to read the text that describes those features. It's a few paragraphs maybe at most that completely explains why AK is and how it works, people just choose to ignore it.

This is the real issue... I don't know what people expect. How long should the "tutorial" be? Like, before you can leave your CH, should the game force you to run to the AK person and buy one research, and then click "I understand" before moving to the next objective?

- - - Updated - - -

Eh I think that is one thing that could be more clearly illustrated, it is easily swept up in the massive amount of quests you get when you ding 110. I think it should maybe start the first research thing as soon as you hit 110 so it guides you to it if you miss/ignore the lead in quest.

Isn't the lead in quest like a "legendary" one? I feel like you have to do it to progress the CH story...

[willemh]

Wow is indeed a very complex game with a very steep learning curve. A friend of me who was a professional DOTA2 player started playing WoW this expansion. He is the perfect showcase I believe that shows how hard it is to understand all the subtilities of WoW gampleay for someone who has never played WoW (or any MMOrpg).

As a 10+ year wow veteran, there is nothing I havn't seen before in WoW. When I see a boss mechanic I'm like 'ah this mechanic is like this boss in this instance years ago' and 'ah we can use this class x or class y abilitiy to cheese this'. When I read patchnotes I instantly know what has changed and what the impact in the bigger picture is. I adapt very quickly and have the feeling I'm 'in control' all the time. My UI is an evolving process of 10 years that tells me exacly what I need to know at any time.

But my friend is totally new to everything, he doesn't understand the bigger picture. Even tho mechanically he's very strong there is just so much more to it. He plays with a very basic UI and really misses so many of the deeper insights that a WoW veteran has. And even now after like 3? months of legion you instantly notice he's a new player whenever you play with him. It takes a very, very long time to develop this deep knowledge about the game. Even for someone as 'good' as him.

[shonist]

i made 3 work mates to buy the game and play it with me, if i dont explain them what it is AK, a dungeon, a raid, and everything they surely wont know it.

Someone that never played wow or any mmo are at loss sometimes. Tolerance is needed on this cases. they just pickup random talents because they dont even what to do there, i cant imagine someone that starts playing by its own with no help. like a instant uninstall.

almost forgot: te other day one of my friends was waiting on my realm in front of a world boss, waiting for a group to appear and start doing the boss... he dont even knew about joining a group in the premade group tool. lol

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Wow is indeed a very complex game with a very steep learning curve. A friend of me who was a professional DOTA2 player started playing WoW this expansion. He is the perfect showcase I believe that shows how hard it is to understand all the subtilities of WoW gampleay for someone who has never played WoW (or any MMOrpg).

As a 10+ year wow veteran, there is nothing I havn't seen before in WoW. When I see a boss mechanic I'm like 'ah this mechanic is like this boss in this instance years ago' and 'ah we can use this class x or class y abilitiy to cheese this'. When I read patchnotes I instantly know what has changed and what the impact in the bigger picture is. I adapt very quickly and have the feeling I'm 'in control' all the time. My UI is an evolving process of 10 years that tells me exacly what I need to know at any time.

But my friend is totally new to everything, he doesn't understand the bigger picture. Even tho mechanically he's very strong there is just so much more to it. He plays with a very basic UI and really misses so many of the deeper insights that a WoW veteran has. And even now after like 3? months of legion you instantly notice he's a new player whenever you play with him. It takes a very, very long time to develop this deep knowledge about the game. Even for someone as 'good' as him.

But thats just an issue of being new to a large game.. that doesn't equate to WoWo being too complex. You have shown your friend to be intelligent at games in general... in time I'm sure he will feel "in control" like you are.

[Okacz]

I agree that for a NEW player, and for new i mean someone that does not know anyone that play wow, the game can be really overwhelming.
Sadly a lot of people on this forum seems to forget it a bit too often.

You underestimate the fact that WoW is VERY well designed. All those systems are introduced on a regular, steady pace, with lots of tutorials and preparation.

Like with Artifact, you first do a huge questline to get one (to make sure you KNOW you have one), then you get the first glimpse of AP and upgrading Artifact. Relics are slowly introduced through questing, and after hitting 110 you are directed straight to Artifact Knowledge with decent explanation of what's going on. All this system is very simple to understand, very well explained.

Compare this to some of the Eastern MMOs. Lots of little gizmos that are never explained what they are, lots of different systems that work somewhere you would never think about looking. WoW is not a game you need to study, you can just jump in and play now, and at no point (unless you commit yourself to it, like raiding optimally with perfect spec) you need external knowledge to play the game.

[Frolk]

Artifacts, Artifact power, Artifact Knowledge, Relics, Obliterum, Blood of Sargeras, multiple dungeon and raid difficulties, etc, etc.

Are all of this needed to make the game enjoyable or are they there just to provide a gating system to ensure content longevity?

"Gamers" who previously just played mobile cow-clickers and breath through their mouths may find wow complex, but thats not Blizzards fault.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Lots of quests that you get at 110 are orange. I can imagine it's easy to do the lead in and forget about it since there is a hell of a lot to do at 110.

I dunno it seems easy to miss for players who are new or returning ones that didn't read up on the new expansion.

I'm in the latter category. Somehow I figured it out.

[Soikona]

The problem is that you "learn" and this can take some time.
I never played EQ but in WoW new players are literally throwned at end game.
You start with a 100 boost and you take few days to max lvl your toon and BAM endgame. With like SEVEN days played (or even less).
That's why you see people doing HC dg with timewalking weapons instead of artifact weapons (it really happened).
In the end, it's not about being intelligent or not, sometimes it's game fault not the player.

No it is the players fault at this end. The game is simple to understand.

[socialmaker]

Raid mechanics on the other hand are getting out of control especially in higher difficulties

[MasterHamster]

Isn't it adorable to read post from players that has probably played for 5-10+ years saying the game is simple?
inb4 someone feels the need to point out they started playing less than 6 months ago and now raid Mythic

[Mykk]

Artifacts, Artifact power, Artifact Knowledge, Relics, Obliterum, Blood of Sargeras, multiple dungeon and raid difficulties, etc, etc.

Are all of this needed to make the game enjoyable or are they there just to provide a gating system to ensure content longevity?

Are you fuckin kidding me???

Wow complex game? "yeah in your dreams"

Too complex to google what blood of sargeras is? "look i got this item better just think game is too complex and quit"

Takes less than 30seconds to google item like blood of sargeras or artifact power / knowledge.

Those things are not complex at all. Keeping head in own ass is.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Probably because you frequent fan sites. Not all players do.

Not until after I hit 110. I learned of AK from the simple artifact interface in the upper left hand corner... and again when I did the introduction quest.

If someone can't use google or ask in trade.. I mean... I don't even know.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Isn't it adorable to read post from players that has probably played for 5-10+ years saying the game is simple?
inb4 someone feels the need to point out they started playing less than 6 months ago and now raid Mythic

We were all new once.

[HumbleDuck]

Yes, it is.
RPGs generally tend to be overwhelming at first, but wow with lvl boosts and now probably xp boost items in store, neglected the learning process recently, that would be a big issue for a new player.
I think this is one of the bigger problems with MMORPGs these days, the entry barrier is high and there is not enough effort put into creating "tutorials".

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

I'm not sure what harm it would cause by making it more obvious.

How would you do that in a fluid manner though? It literally makes you go there to learn what it is. Its literally a stat on your artifact.

[Deleted]

Or they forgot, accidentally canceled, didn't notice. Wouldn't hurt for Blizzard to have this quest pop up automatically, remind them through loading screen tip or have one of those tutorial popups.

there is a huge icon on your map that says "IDLE RESEARCHERS" too.