No Warlock Blue Post..

[Lorgar Aurelian]

It's an opinion. But I have a shadowpriest, elemental and boomkin and I will say that warlock is garbage compared to them mechanically speaking. Elemental, ELEMENTAL, the most ignored spec has more fluidity in its playstyle than Destruction. Boomkin is solid and shadowpriest While not perfect has some solid points and basically not suffering in dps right now.

Compare warlocks to them mechanically and you'll see how unfinished and uninspired the whole class is. It's like they ran out of tkme when they did the class design.

We basically just received all of Mage's trash; prismatic crystal, rng mastery. A mage's trash is a warlock's treasure so it seems. It's insulting and just shows how much the devs like to shoves their (bad) ideas to our throats even if no one likes them.

i don't like the way ele or boomkin play i can agree shadow feels better but once again its all option you might feel its bad i might feel its bad but some one feels its good some one always will.

[n0n3]

I think the same team who designed demon hunters did warlocks too and they spent 90% of dev time on the new class and 10% on warlock.
This class will be shit throughout the whole expansion since the problems are mechanics wise and blizzard isn't doing any spec rework til next expac.

[Sci Fi Samurai]

Im actually quite surprised.

Really? This is entirely consistent with warlock treatment this entire expac.

I think the same team who designed demon hunters did warlocks too and they spent 90% of dev time on the new class and 10% on warlock.

You're being awfully generous. 10% sounds extremely charitable.

I'd give it about 4%.

[KrazyK923]

Next PTR build went up with a bunch of class changes.

Warlocks got alterations to...I believe 4 pvp talents. And that's it.

lololololololol.

Is there even an actual developer working on Warlocks? Or is it just like the layovers from other classes who get assigned to do the class I've played for 12 years after they actually balance their first and real task? Because that's what it feels like.

Legion is such an absolute spitting in the face of anybody who actually calls themselves a Warlock player, even those who somehow find the insanely boring playstyle of Demo's fotm changes (Which won't last long). The playstyle sucks, the class fantasies suck (ESPECIALLY Demonology -- lolol "master summoner" just mass-summons imps), they're constantly nerfing almost everything about all three specs, and what class does exist seems only 60% finished.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Next PTR build went up with a bunch of class changes.

Warlocks got alterations to...I believe 4 pvp talents. And that's it.

lololololololol.

Is there even an actual developer working on Warlocks? Or is it just like the layovers from other classes who get assigned to do the class I've played for 12 years after they actually balance their first and real task? Because that's what it feels like.

Legion is such an absolute spitting in the face of anybody who actually calls themselves a Warlock player, even those who somehow find the insanely boring playstyle of Demo's fotm changes (Which won't last long). The playstyle sucks, the class fantasies suck (ESPECIALLY Demonology -- lolol "master summoner" just mass-summons imps), they're constantly nerfing almost everything about all three specs, and what class does exist seems only 60% finished.

demos theme is fine summoning masses of imps, fel hounds, observers, your main fel guard summon, a fel lord for a pvp talent. you make it sound like theirs only imps when there is in fact much more.

[KrazyK923]

demos theme is fine summoning masses of imps, fel hounds, observers, your main fel guard summon, a fel lord for a pvp talent. you make it sound like theirs only imps when there is in fact much more.

a.) The exact same "Felguard" that has existed for a decade doesn't count since...we've been doing it for a decade.
b.) PvP talent, doesn't matter. Fel Lord/Pit Lord should have been a baseline ability since they are actually powerful demons.
c.) You're not summoning masses of Felstalkers or Observers. You're summoning two and one.

Mass summoning Imps isn't some grand "master warlock" fantasy. But I couldn't possibly care less to argue about this. I've seen many other people bring up this point, and I care way more about Destruction than Demonology, but maybe if the playstyle wasn't so boring and the fantasy so dogshit, I'd actually try the other two.

[DustWolf]

It's funny, if they'd hire an intern to fix warlocks, he'd probably have the easiest time of his life. He'd just have to read the warlock forums, make a compilation of the best ideas and just use them. BAM, warlocks fixed, community happy, intern gets hired, GG.

[Orwell7]

Have you guys ever noticed that Blizzard uses a fix the community debates about?
Not just Warlocks, all classes.

It seems like they have a policy that they only make changes that are NOT been discussed anywhere else.

So, let's just be quiet and maybe they come up with something obviously great?

[Deleted]

They have buffed ELT to 15 seconds on the next ptr notes, i mean thats a 50% increase awesome warlock buff

its however the only non pvp warlock change but notes does say more to follow so we might get some more lock love today

[Deleted]

Hope there is more to come because increasing ELT by 5 seconds doesnt even begin to fix anything.

[Soulzar]

Rabble Rabble Rabble!!

[alexchaos]

My warlock has been my first character and since Wotlk I've also had a DK as an alt. Since Legion isn't really alt-friendly I havn't leveled him yet.

I loved switching between spec because I loved playing the 3 warlock spec. I never complained on the forums about class design since I started playing.

However, Legion locking us to one spec I decided stick to demo cause the fantasy of being a master summoner sounded great.. That is until I saw I was a stupid turret that cannot move. Right away I thought I was playing it wrong. I went and checked out a few guides but nope! It's how it was meant to be played and I saw so many people complaning on the forums that I was certain blizz would do something about it.

3 months later here I am, looking everyday on mmochamp to see the patch notes with the hope of changes or at least a blue post telling me that my class will get some rework (demonic empowerement). However, not a single thing has been done while other classes (that are not as bad) have seen changes to their spec/class.

Had I been in another expansion I would've rerolled but the gated power creep in legion doesn't let me as I don't have that much time to put into the game which is really unfortunate at this point because I don't find the warlock class to be enjoyable at all.

I still have some hope that we will see bigger changes but if not I don't think I'll play for long.

[Bryntrollian]

No blue post news on big upcoming class changes unlike some of the other classes.. hunters, mages, priests.... Im actually quite surprised. What are your expectations for new warlock changes in 7.1.5? Just buffs in abilities now since it doesnt seem like they have anything else to say

Its because Warlocks are in a great spot right now for 7.1.5.

[Deleted]

This should /thread. Why respond to 15 people?

Because not 15 people play Warlock, many more. I don't play Affliction because it's garbage. If they buff Affliction, I will play it.
Jesus

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Mass summoning Imps isn't some grand "master warlock" fantasy. But I couldn't possibly care less to argue about this. I've seen many other people bring up this point, and I care way more about Destruction than Demonology, but maybe if the playstyle wasn't so boring and the fantasy so dogshit, I'd actually try the other two.

I mean, even the old Demonology which wasn't specifically a summoner class could summon Imps en masse. The only noticeable addition here is the ocassional 2 fel stalkers we can summon.

[Astarial]

I think the same team who designed demon hunters did warlocks too and they spent 90% of dev time on the new class and 10% on warlock.
This class will be shit throughout the whole expansion since the problems are mechanics wise and blizzard isn't doing any spec rework til next expac.

Just to let you, and everyone else know that the 'design team' consists of max 3 people. Last time Celestalon was asked about the number of designers, he said that him and one other person were in charge of class design and balancing.

To me, this is where the flaw is. I really feel blizzard could afford to have one dedicated person per class. I play mage, but I remember in cata when locks had a sort of dedicated designer - the class back then was mechanically fantastic

[Deleted]

Yet another thread of "We are soooo bad" without any concrete criticisms or proposed solutions.

I personally don't think that Destro/Demo are in that bad a place. There are some QoL issues like Burning Rush on same tier as our defensives or the constant need to empower demons, yes, but we always had one or the other of those Quality of Life issues in other expansions.

Affliction is actually the only one where I would tentatively agree that they seem "unfinished" in terms of their Golden Traits that seem to better fit the playstyle before the end-of-alpha change. However, I have not played Affliction much so far (except for massive bomb damage), so I'm sure there are more competent locks out there that can give more concrete comments on that.

[Deleted]

It's funny, if they'd hire an intern to fix warlocks, he'd probably have the easiest time of his life. He'd just have to read the warlock forums, make a compilation of the best ideas and just use them. BAM, warlocks fixed, community happy, intern gets hired, GG.

Haha this guy wins internet today

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allthought with the changes to the legendary boots Demo will be mobile as any specc, stand still 5 sec and cast = move for 5 sec and cast rinse and repeat

[Pokeypenguin]

It's an opinion. But I have a shadowpriest, elemental and boomkin and I will say that warlock is garbage compared to them mechanically speaking. Elemental, ELEMENTAL, the most ignored spec has more fluidity in its playstyle than Destruction. Boomkin is solid and shadowpriest While not perfect has some solid points and basically not suffering in dps right now.

Compare warlocks to them mechanically and you'll see how unfinished and uninspired the whole class is. It's like they ran out of tkme when they did the class design.

We basically just received all of Mage's trash; prismatic crystal, rng mastery. A mage's trash is a warlock's treasure so it seems. It's insulting and just shows how much the devs like to shoves their (bad) ideas to our throats even if no one likes them.

Its because they gave DH our entire demo toolkit, so they had to replace demo with affliction, then made up some broken garbage to fill the affliction hole to make it feel different from demo, even though they are both dot specs now.

The only real problem with destro is permanent havoc which is making it impossible to balance, so they are just leaving the spec with no single target damage.

And by impossible to balance I mean jesus just buff the imp or portal or channel demon fire massively, what's the big freaking issue here. Just buff stuff not effected by havoc.

[Deleted]

Let me tell you Blizzard's logic:

As a company, they are going to allocate their resources according to their player bases, AKA. class popularity, ie. Assign the best, the most talented and most experienced people to make sure that 4 million people playing mages are happy and countiue to play and maybe convince more people to play mage beceause the class is so powerfull and fun. Assign intern-level people to design all warlock stuff becasue fankly they dont care we are like 3.6% or something in the pupulation(god knows how many are alts)......because -
For people who love warlock or like the class fantasy are gonna play it no matter how bad this class gets.
For people had enough of their shitty class design, still want to play WoW they will reroll something else, which Blizzard wouldn't care because they still get sub fee.
For people unsubed and left the game, they care even less, because for one the number are just to little to be concerned, two they'd rather you give up your spot in the server when it is full to another hunter or mage who doesn't whining about anything and happly pay their sub.

This is not true and was proven as when Xelnath broke silence and was "let go" from Blizzard.

Before being dismissed, he was quite vocal on these forums asking for feedback from warlocks.
He was very frank with how design should be managed, rather than every class running an arms race wherein everyone has and can do any/everything... For each tool he gave to warlocks, he had to take something away.

He got on the wrong side of his fellow developers when he said that the other devs do not take into consideration the toolkit of other classes nor weigh up changes with balance in mind.
The example he gave us was (didn't give a name) the developer responsible for Mages... Frost Mage, which already had the highest Crowd Control toolkit in the game was given Ring of Frost... Another CC.

Blizzard does not contribute more time to a class because more people play it... You're giving them too much credit to think they even THINK about such decisions.
Heck, back then, the lead developer (Ghostcrawler) came out with statements like: "Mind control is a strong CC, you can take over your opponent and use his/her abilities against them".
The lead developer didn't even know what classes could do what... What gives us any confidence that ANY of the existing developers have a clue on what they are doing?

[Functional Analysis]

Let me tell you Blizzard's logic:

For people unsubed and left the game, they care even less, because for one the number are just to little to be concerned, two they'd rather you give up your spot in the server when it is full to another hunter or mage who doesn't whining about anything and happly pay their sub.

This is a common narrative I've seen being pushed since, well, as far back as I can remember reading WoW forums. It's a narrative that contradicts sound subscription-based business models (think of cable/telco companies, who will often offer discounts and other incentives to get you to keep your subscription). The point being, subscription-based business models value keeping current subscriptions more than short-term profits, and will prefer to lose a bit more in the short-term in an effort to gain in the long-term. I find it very difficult to believe that the financial department at Blizzard is ignorant of this. Let's also remember that, in general, the only thing finance folks care about is whether or not the product is turning a profit or more likely in Blizzard's case; benefiting the shareholders. They couldn't care less about who's using what part of the product; that's marketing's job (market research, to be more precise). If Blizzard is intentionally staffing in such a way that they are losing subscriptions, you better believe that finance/accounting will bring it up at meetings, since anything that cuts into profits is their job to report and sometimes resolve.

When someone unsubs, there is no guaranteed replacement, so it's pure lost revenue. The folks in the financial department don't care who is playing what¹; they do care about why potential revenue streams are being ignored or abandoned, though.

Now, this doesn't rule out some type of disconnect between the developers and the community, which is apparent given some of the changes we've seen. However, it's highly unlikely that the financial department is to blame, and even more unlikely that they'd let such poor models go unchecked for long.

¹ Let's be aware that Blizzard is more than just a collection of designers and developers with playstyle and/or class biases