Arthas, Prince who saved the world

[Magnagarde]

Seems I need to re-read that comic one day.

So they were simply and still Silver Hand, with no red shit around back then?

Silver Hand are paladins. These heroes are fire mages and rangers. It is clear they couldn't have come from the Silver Hand. The paladins however did come from the Silver Hand.

[Zulkhan]

Silver Hand are paladins. These heroes are fire mages and rangers. It is clear they couldn't have come from the Silver Hand. The paladins however did come from the Silver Hand.

That seems a fair point, especially now that I read the plaque addressed at the ranger you mentioned, where she is called "Ranger Captain of the Scarlet Crusade".

[Melsiren]

Holy shit, how did I miss this gem of a thread until tonight?

[Zulkhan]

Holy shit, how did I miss this gem of a thread until tonight?

Read it all. It's worthy the effort. Or maybe not. Guess that depends from the kind of entertainment you prefer.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Holy shit, how did I miss this gem of a thread until tonight?

some sort of vaccine probably. I want one too.

[Aquamonkey]

I mean, come on, at this point I start to question certain things about it. It speaks about soul in context of his humanity as he speaks about the remorse and such line before it. clearly it has robbed him of his soul and by extension humanity

Soul is different from humanity. It says soul. It never mentions humanity. Show us the part where it says Frostmourne stole his humanity.

yet he was speculating from the position in frostmourne, being all there. he knew more than we. also narration doe snot say anything lik it, you are overinterpreting things, for the sake, of I don't know what

Uther knew more than us, but that doesn't mean he was right. He specifically says his information may be wrong, yet you take it as absolute fact... over the WoG and omniscient narration. I'm not overinterpreting anything, the narrator says that Arthas was alone as the Lich King.

Uther's statements in the game are part of the old Blizzard concept where the LK wasn't Arthas or Ner'zhul, but some different entity amalgam of them. In that concept, Uther's statement would have been true. But Blizzard changed it. Blizzard made it so the LK was ONLY Arthas.

WoG didn't say it. and Blizzard considered Arthas to be LK since the start of wotlk.

Real time, no. At the time WotLK was published, Blizzard considered the LK to be a new entity comprised from Arthas and Ner'zhul. But Blizzard changed it later. They retconned events in-universe for Arthas to be the LK when the events of WotLK began.

UVG, really? what did you expect there, to spil the lore?

It's canon...

[MikeBogina]

Soul is different from humanity. It says soul. It never mentions humanity. Show us the part where it says Frostmourne stole his humanity.

You know that takes your humanity. Everyone effected by Decay become cold efficient killing machines. Even Bolvar the great paladin who lead the Alliance... is willing to kill innocents to gain power. If he's doing all that, can you imagine what he would do if his scourge was more powerful? What more he could get away with?

Death Knight Arthas definitely was a whole new person. Reading the books and game, there is no way he just willingly became bad(Like Anakin)

[Aquamonkey]

You know that takes your humanity. Everyone effected by Decay become cold efficient killing machines. Even Bolvar the great paladin who lead the Alliance... is willing to kill innocents to gain power. If he's doing all that, can you imagine what he would do if his scourge was more powerful? What more he could get away with?

Death Knight Arthas definitely was a whole new person. Reading the books and game, there is no way he just willingly became bad(Like Anakin)

Except his humanity wasn't in Frostmourne. The novel says this. It was Arthas making decisions willingly and willfully surpressing his humanity. Arthas was already bad before he picked up Frostmourne. WoG said this.

[Deleted]

No doubt he spared Jaina. But Sylvanas? What reason would he have to?

He didn't spare Sylvanas nor had any intention to spare her, he was mad at her for slowing his plans and fighting against him, he condemned her to eternal torment as banshee, what he did to her is literally the exact opposite to sparing someone. Death in battle would be sparing Sylvanas on his end, tormenting her soul and making her immortal and an outcast among her people is the biggest middle finger he could show.

[Deleted]

There such a thing as evil paladin, the Scarlet Crusade/Onslaught are the living proof of it. The fact light blesses those with conviction doesn't mean they're not evil themselves, regardless of what they believe in.

And in this case, the word of the developer is literally the word of the creator, if you dismiss that, then anything anyone ever says can be dismissed as well. Doesn't matter if the whole world thinks otherwise.

It's the same as George R R Martins saying Ramsay is evil, and you trying to justify with whatever you can that he isn't.

"If you take the word of the author what is good and what is bad..."

ar eyou comparing sadist for the sake of sadism to scarlet crusade who re fighting against undead corruption with a sidequest hanging those they thought ere corrupted? nonsense. they are not evil period

Uh, last time I checked, Lordaeron fell. The kingdom is no more. And his actions led to it, why do you think Ner'zhul and Mal'ganis picked him?

I think it's time to close this thread, it's going nowhere, the OP refuses to debate anything that goes against her fanfiction.

because they believed in his sense of righteousness and willingness to do everything for his people. what happened to Lordaeron came from perfectly good intentions

How the fuck he spared her? Did you play the Halls of Reflection dungeon? He was just about to suck Jaina's soul out of her body before the Skyfire stopped him by collapsing the whole fucking cave on his head.

Keeping her locket means nothing. It just means that he didn't bother to throw it away even when he utterly rejected his humanity. He still tried to kill and raise Jaina without ifs or buts.



Indeed, that's why he thrown dozens of undead on our faces while blocking the way to safety. Because he wanted to spare us all. Flawless logic.



Except Arthas didn't shown the actual struggle that an average human being would have had while taking in consideration such a ridiculously drastic decision. As much as honestly awful the decision took by both Uther and Jaina to simply "walk away" was, their reaction was at least in line with ones of empathetic human beings, genuinely horrified by the notion of slaughtering the entire population of the second most populous city of the kingdom. Arthas instead simply screamed his order and instantly got pissed and angry when the people around him reacted like normal human beings, as the refusal was just meant to hurt his stupid fucking pride.

Long story short, Arthas was not a good person, at all. He had some good qualities but those eventually served more as misguiding exterior hiding all the bad beneath.



No, it's not. Especially for someone claiming that the Scarlet Crusade could be seen as good by millions of people out there, degrading morality to binary values is quite crazy.

he could one shot her while we were interacting with his pawns

there was a conflict within him with evil arthas being a dominant force, what is there not to understand

there was no time for struggle. not everybody becomes paralyzed, in fact in many situatins firing the gun is the first thing people do in the face of threat.

yes he screamed orders as there was no time and these fools were slowing him down and risking the kingdom
it is. morality can be reduced to binary values. it is not some ephemerical state of higher conciousness but simple action/reaction field.

Soul is different from humanity. It says soul. It never mentions humanity. Show us the part where it says Frostmourne stole his humanity.


Uther knew more than us, but that doesn't mean he was right. He specifically says his information may be wrong, yet you take it as absolute fact... over the WoG and omniscient narration. I'm not overinterpreting anything, the narrator says that Arthas was alone as the Lich King.

Uther's statements in the game are part of the old Blizzard concept where the LK wasn't Arthas or Ner'zhul, but some different entity amalgam of them. In that concept, Uther's statement would have been true. But Blizzard changed it. Blizzard made it so the LK was ONLY Arthas.


Real time, no. At the time WotLK was published, Blizzard considered the LK to be a new entity comprised from Arthas and Ner'zhul. But Blizzard changed it later. They retconned events in-universe for Arthas to be the LK when the events of WotLK began.


It's canon...

clearly it is not as response of Tichondrius touched upon the question of Arthas humanity in regards to his remorse. I mean, it is some level basic connection here. it comes directly from the dialogue, like readingw ith understanding for first class

he nevr said it could be wrong. on the scale of plausibility he viewed quite high even if he was not sure 100%.

LK was considered Arthas since the beginning of wotlk

no the book just got published then to top the sales they probably knew what is going to be there

it might be but it is a silly description, basic guide

[HeiAggra]

because they believed in his sense of righteousness and willingness to do everything for his people. what happened to Lordaeron came from perfectly good intentions

Oh Annie yet again with the good intentions my dear. Arthas is bad to the core. To want to save your ppl and still do not care if you have to purge a city it's not good intentions. He played save and sacrificed the persons. He could have laided siege to the city to see if they were or not infected. Arthas was just a spoiled kid Annie. He just cared for power and used the excuse of save his kingdom. Ah by the way Hell is Full of Good Intentions
PS: I know you love that sentence hehehe

[Vynny]

Because the Lich King of WotLK was still a mixture of both Arthas and Ner'zhul, but Arthas' personality was the one dominating this being where Ner'zhul was simply no more.

I dunno, that seems more like Arthas with a spritz of Ner'zhul mixed in there rather than Ner'zhul being no more.

[Deleted]

it was about vengeance and saving his people, well vengeance is one of paladin traits in W universe. fitting!

some expeditions are into harsh climates, it was one of them. can't blame him for that. and he wante dto end it all for good.
you are all against my prince!

Sorry; had too much do over the weekend to answer, but here i go again;

Blind vengeance was never part of a paladins traits; and that is what this was about.
And that's exactly what Arthas was warned about by Uther at the start of mission 2.

All of those expeditions are also approved by your superiors, since casualties are usually more common on those missions and this kind of expeditions also tend to require more rations/supplies. Arthas was not prepared in the slightest and even went agaist his orders by taking his men to Northrend.



Some people used to theorize Jaina stole Arthas's corpse after ICC to try to reanimate it; i get the feeling it wasn't her, but another female. :P

[Deleted]

Oh Annie yet again with the good intentions my dear. Arthas is bad to the core. To want to save your ppl and still do not care if you have to purge a city it's not good intentions. He played save and sacrificed the persons. He could have laided siege to the city to see if they were or not infected. Arthas was just a spoiled kid Annie. He just cared for power and used the excuse of save his kingdom. Ah by the way Hell is Full of Good Intentions
PS: I know you love that sentence hehehe

he did care, about his kingdom. what was he supposed to do, sit there and weep? come on. he wanted to be strong be he never cared about the power. he was a prince, he would inherit it anyway

Sorry; had too much do over the weekend to answer, but here i go again;

Blind vengeance was never part of a paladins traits; and that is what this was about.
And that's exactly what Arthas was warned about by Uther at the start of mission 2.

All of those expeditions are also approved by your superiors, since casualties are usually more common on those missions and this kind of expeditions also tend to require more rations/supplies. Arthas was not prepared in the slightest and even went agaist his orders by taking his men to Northrend.



Some people used to theorize Jaina stole Arthas's corpse after ICC to try to reanimate it; i get the feeling it wasn't her, but another female. :P

so now it is blind. no, it was quite aimed at the malganis.
no, he could mobilize the troops and go there, it was his right, and people followed. and they were prepared enough. orders came latr

[HeiAggra]

he did care, about his kingdom. what was he supposed to do, sit there and weep? come on. he wanted to be strong be he never cared about the power. he was a prince, he would inherit it anyway

Dear Annie, if he trully cared he would have followed his orders. In the end he just wanted revenge thats all. If he would care he would have stayed and help his kingdom instead of leaving them to go after malganis and his revenge. Arthas shoulded to be inmature, power greedy, selfish and only care for him. I know you like him but he represents the oposite to what a prince should be.

[Deleted]

Dear Annie, if he trully cared he would have followed his orders. In the end he just wanted revenge thats all. If he would care he would have stayed and help his kingdom instead of leaving them to go after malganis and his revenge. Arthas shoulded to be inmature, power greedy, selfish and only care for him. I know you like him but he represents the oposite to what a prince should be.

and since when following orders mean that someones cares. he cared about the people not orders that would doom his kingdom and more people. but after stratholme everything was fine in the kingdom, pleague stopped. what was he then supposed to do, wait for another malganis wave of undead? no, i don't think so, after he cleansed his lands he went to finish the job, secure the future, avenge his people, slay malganis, prove himself.
except for when you read machiavellis prince then you see he is in fact too good to be a good prince.

[HeiAggra]

and since when following orders mean that someones cares. he cared about the people not orders that would doom his kingdom and more people. but after stratholme everything was fine in the kingdom, pleague stopped. what was he then supposed to do, wait for another malganis wave of undead? no, i don't think so, after he cleansed his lands he went to finish the job, secure the future, avenge his people, slay malganis, prove himself.
except for when you read machiavellis prince then you see he is in fact too good to be a good prince.

I understand what you mean Annie but i do not think the same. Ok ill try to explain ok. 1 - After he stopped the plague in my opinion he should head back to his father and king for further orders. 2- A kingdom after a problem like that needs to be attended and cared. 3 - Think the motive on why the attack happend and get a plan of attack with his head cold and the support of his father and the other paladins.
So Annie instead he just rushed to northrend to get his revenge. He left his kingdom without even letting nobody know why. Once upon return he destroyed it.

[Deleted]

I understand what you mean Annie but i do not think the same. Ok ill try to explain ok. 1 - After he stopped the plague in my opinion he should head back to his father and king for further orders. 2- A kingdom after a problem like that needs to be attended and cared. 3 - Think the motive on why the attack happend and get a plan of attack with his head cold and the support of his father and the other paladins.
So Annie instead he just rushed to northrend to get his revenge. He left his kingdom without even letting nobody know why. Once upon return he destroyed it.

but why? he had the right to use troops. it is not as if king operated from his throne. Lordaeron had its generals and such, and Arthas as Prince was fully capable of using army. Also, he wanted to press advantage and go there to destroy him. Yes it needs, and not put in stasis so that new wave of enemies come. when someone nuke syour country you don't wait fixing stuff untilt he nukes comes again, you try to destroy nuke sites. well organizing such big army is not exactly a rushing thing, it required time anyway

[HeiAggra]

but why? he had the right to use troops. it is not as if king operated from his throne. Lordaeron had its generals and such, and Arthas as Prince was fully capable of using army. Also, he wanted to press advantage and go there to destroy him. Yes it needs, and not put in stasis so that new wave of enemies come. when someone nuke syour country you don't wait fixing stuff untilt he nukes comes again, you try to destroy nuke sites. well organizing such big army is not exactly a rushing thing, it required time anyway

Annie he is cappable when given the order, not by ignoring orders from your king and your paladin superior. That only shows is arrogance and lack of experience.
Also why do you think Arthas was the choice of the LK? Because they new what he was trully, his true colours. What would happend if they pushed him and he danced like they intended.

[Zulkhan]

I dunno, that seems more like Arthas with a spritz of Ner'zhul mixed in there rather than Ner'zhul being no more.

Darion outright says that the foe Tirion faced was the combination of two of the most cunning and ruthless individuals ever existed (aka, Arthas and Ner'zhul) but when you quest throught Icecrown and meet Matthias Lehner it becomes pretty clear that Arthas is the one in control, with the ghost boy saying how the prince is a king now and discarded the boy (aka, the last chunk of his humanity) to become an entity freed of any hint of compassion and hesitation.

The memories, knowledge and even some personality traits of Ner'zhul may have remained in the Lich King after the merging, but Ner'zhul as a conscious entity officially ended when Arthas consumed him in RotLK.