Why are there more 7/7M kills than H Helya kills?

[styil]

1,591 M Xavius kills vs. 1,421 H Helya kills. Even though M Xavius was released a while ago, you would expect those 1,591 7/7M guilds to just go in and kill HEROIC Helya Day 1 especially at their gear levels and for there to be at least more H Helya kills than 1,421 given the 6/7M, 5/7M, 4/7M, ... guilds out there. Why is this not the case?

Now you could argue that these guilds have simply disbanded, but with 4,900 H Guarm kills, this indicates that these guilds are active but are simply not doing H Helya. Why not?

[Gilthresa]

Because Xavius was undertuned, helya isn't.

[deadman1]

Because Xavius was undertuned, helya isn't.

7/7 mythic implies you killed cenarius, cenarius isn't an easy fight even now.

[styil]

Because Xavius was undertuned, helya isn't.

Regardless, those 7/7M guilds would have been going into Heroic Helya at 880-885 item level for 2/3 bosses that (initially) dropped 870. At that gear level and given the rewards, you would expect these 7/7M guilds to just 1 shot the boss on Heroic Day 1.

[Deleted]

Helya is the hardest pre mythic ToV boss. P3 helya heroic is pretty difficult without alot of co-ordination

[Gilthresa]

7/7 mythic implies you killed cenarius, cenarius isn't an easy fight even now.

Cenarius is a complete joke now with 880ish Ilvl, bloodlust at the start and get him into p2 with only one set of wisps... p2 is easy as well

[FelPlague]

1,591 M Xavius kills vs. 1,421 H Helya kills. Even though M Xavius was released a while ago, you would expect those 1,591 7/7M guilds to just go in and kill HEROIC Helya Day 1 especially at their gear levels and for there to be at least more H Helya kills than 1,421 given the 6/7M, 5/7M, 4/7M, ... guilds out there. Why is this not the case?

Now you could argue that these guilds have simply disbanded, but with 4,900 H Guarm kills, this indicates that these guilds are active but are simply not doing H Helya. Why not?

1. because xavius was undertuned
2. because helya was overtuned
3.because mythic xavius has been out for a long long time now
4. heroic helya has only been out for awhile
5. mythic xavius gives very good gear
6. heroic helya gives meh gear


there enough reasons for ya? its pretty odvious
for somone who seems to be claiming they know a ton about the raiding community
you seem to have missed the point less then 50 guilds killed heroic helya on release day so the "you would expect those 1,591 7/7M guilds to just go in and kill HEROIC Helya Day 1 especially at their gear levels" shows you know little to nothing about the raiding community and just wanted to talk shit

[Mercane]

7/7 mythic implies you killed cenarius, cenarius isn't an easy fight even now.

You either have the dps (and heals for that matter), or you don't... there's nothing inherently difficult about the fight though.

Lust on pull and push phase 2.

there enough reasons for ya? its pretty odvious

The other side of that is, you have until Tomb of Sargeras to get ToV Cutting Edge, so people who don't care about the World First race are either finishing EN or just now stepping into ToV.

[Mercane]

But yeah, I think we spent about the same amount of time/attempts on both heroic Helya and Mythic Xavius.

I wish we got Heroic Helya down in 5 pulls LOL

[styil]

Helya is the hardest pre mythic ToV boss. P3 helya heroic is pretty difficult without alot of co-ordination

It might be the hardest Heroic boss, but it is still a heroic boss. These 7/7 MYTHIC guids were going into this encounter with much more gear than what the instance dropped. Around 880-885 when pre-Helya initially drops 875. You would think that with that kind of gear and at that level of play, these guilds would be clearing the place on Heroic in an hour.

[Tanthoris]

1. because xavius was undertuned
2. because helya was overtuned
3.because mythic xavius has been out for a long long time now
4. heroic helya has only been out for awhile
5. mythic xavius gives very good gear
6. heroic helya gives meh gear


there enough reasons for ya? its pretty odvious

This pretty much... Oh and dont forget that the few guilds that HAVE killed Mythic Helya, most were temp-banned for cheating during the world first race.

[kamuimac]

Why is this not the case?

because blizzard tuning team sucks and are trying to change 1 tier into 3 mini tiers for no reason whatsoever.

[Deleted]

It might be the hardest Heroic boss, but it is still a heroic boss. These 7/7 MYTHIC guids were going into this encounter with much more gear than what the instance dropped. Around 880-885 when pre-Helya initially drops 875. You would think that with that kind of gear and at that level of play, these guilds would be clearing the place on Heroic in an hour.

Like I said, I've done the boss.. It's harder than all of EN mythic. Gear is irrelevant when the fight is very punishing for fuck ups, you have to execute the fight very very well for a long period of time.

[styil]

1. because xavius was undertuned
2. because helya was overtuned
3.because mythic xavius has been out for a long long time now
4. heroic helya has only been out for awhile
5. mythic xavius gives very good gear
6. heroic helya gives meh gear


there enough reasons for ya? its pretty odvious
for somone who seems to be claiming they know a ton about the raiding community
you seem to have missed the point less then 50 guilds killed heroic helya on release day so the "you would expect those 1,591 7/7M guilds to just go in and kill HEROIC Helya Day 1 especially at their gear levels" shows you know little to nothing about the raiding community and just wanted to talk shit

Helya has some desirable items even it 875. Throw in Warforged/Titanforged, AP, legendary chances, etc. and there is no reason not to at least quickly do the instance. So that rules out #6. #5 is not a reason to not do Heroic Helya.

I don't ever remember a Heroic boss taking almost a month to kill for full Mythic clearing guilds. So that rules out #3 and #4. But I would agree that Helya is overtuned.

And Day 1 was more of a tongue in cheek. Certainly At least in the first lockout.

[styil]

Like I said, I've done the boss.. It's harder than all of EN mythic. Gear is irrelevant when the fight is very punishing for fuck ups, you have to execute the fight very very well for a long period of time.

But shouldn't you expect a group of 880-885 players who have cleared Mythic to just roflstomp a raid that drops 875?

If HEROIC Helya is very punishing and requires excellent execution for a long period of time for MYTHIC guilds with 880-885, then what in the world are actual Heroic guilds (who are the actual target for Heroic raids) going to do?

[Servos]

Did the 50 page thread on 'Trial of Valor overtuned' not interest you?

[roi]

Isn't it nice to be challenged instead of having to wait months for the next raid tier? Anyway, give it another 4-6 weeks and most of these 7/7 EN M guilds will be progressing mythic Helya as well.

[Relapses]

...it's pretty fucking obvious. M-Xavius has been around for much, much longer than H-Helya.

[barackohmama]

M-Xavius has been out much longer. Also 7 mythic bosses in EN takes a while for guilds to clear, so chances are there are not much time left that week for the more casual guilds to do ToV

[Fleckens]

It is definitely a bit strange, not due to Xavius but due to Cenarius(and we even wiped far more on mythic Xavius than heroic helya). At least for my guild, Cenarius took a few days of progress to kill, I believe around a 100 wipes, heroic Helya was 11. If you have the dps to zerg Cenarius, which I assume most recent kills do as the proper tactic is a lot harder, then you should have more than enough dps to make Helya phase 2 in just 2 add spawns.

Guess it could be that a lot those still progression in Mythic EN decided to focus on that rather than TOV and so they simple haven't gotten around to doing it yet.