What has become of conservatism?

[Wells]

I am not American so I can't comment on your history or even the mentality of your nation. However, I do know that most people do not have a political leaning be it right or left. If you have an extended period of time where one ideology is forced down their throats they will become reactionary and vote for the opposite. Words such as "misogynist", "bigot" and "racist" are powerful ones and strike very deep. I think your people just got tired of being called that.

This entire notion relies on the premise that the American people by and large wanted Trump. About half voted, and less than half that voted for Trump. This is a minority government.

[Triks]

This entire notion relies on the premise that the American people by and large wanted Trump. About half voted, and less than half that voted for Trump. This is a minority government.

To be honest with you, you didn't have much of a choice to begin with - you had a populist and a butcher.

[Kalis]

...and blah blah blah. You haven't shown anything inaccurate about the article. You just keep spewing.

A couple of issues with the article were pointed out in post #172.

The last paragraph "Labour agrees with the Conservatives that under conditions of mounting social and political crisis, the state must be strengthened in order to defend capitalist rule." They can't possibly know that Labour supported it 'in order to defend capitalist rule', it's something they invented, Corbyn would never say anything like that.

How can you claim that their mind reading skills are accurate? It is Marxist claptrap.

[Wells]

To be honest with you, you didn't have much of a choice to begin with - you had a populist and a butcher.

That's aside from the point. This wasn't a popular uprising against liberalism, since the small minority voted for it in the first place. The American people chose Clinton. The electoral system chose Trump.

[Kalis]

That's aside from the point. This wasn't a popular uprising against liberalism, since the small minority voted for it in the first place. The American people chose Clinton. The electoral system chose Trump.

That is a fundamental misunderstanding of how people vote in an FPTP system, it displays a lack of insight into how people's minds work.

Not everyone bothers to vote in regions that are heavily one way, e.g. some Democrat and Republican supporters will not bother in California, due to it being pretty much a foregone conclusion as to who will win there.

The popular vote is utterly meaningless in such a system and people who try to console themselves by citing it are just showing their cluelessness.

[Wells]

That is a fundamental misunderstanding of how people vote in an FPTP system, it displays a lack of insight into how people's minds work.

Not everyone bothers to vote in regions that are heavily one way, e.g. some Democrat and Republican supporters will not bother in California, due to it being pretty much a foregone conclusion as to who will win in there.

The popular vote is utterly meaningless in such a system and people who try to console themselves by citing it are just showing their cluelessness.

There's no actual difference between someone who doesn't choose to vote because they think their vote doesn't count and someone who doesn't choose to vote because American Idol was on.

The point stands, Americans did not choose Trump as their new leader. They chose Clinton and the Electoral College overruled them.

[Triks]

That's aside from the point. This wasn't a popular uprising against liberalism, since the small minority voted for it in the first place. The American people chose Clinton. The electoral system chose Trump.

In the 2016 election, a wide gap in presidential preferences emerged between those with and without a college degree. College graduates backed Clinton by a 9-point margin (52%-43%), while those without a college degree backed Trump 52%-44%. This is by far the widest gap in support among college graduates and non-college graduates in exit polls dating back to 1980. For example, in 2012, there was hardly any difference between the two groups: College graduates backed Obama over Romney by 50%-48%, and those without a college degree also supported Obama 51%-47%.

Among whites, Trump won an overwhelming share of those without a college degree; and among white college graduates – a group that many identified as key for a potential Clinton victory – Trump outperformed Clinton by a narrow 4-point margin.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...lennial-voters

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/0/us...-factors-in-t/

Dunno about anything else but Trump's electorate isn't what I would call "liberal".

[Wells]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...lennial-voters

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/0/us...-factors-in-t/

Dunno about anything else but Trump's electorate isn't what I would call "liberal".

You seem to have fundamentally misunderstood the point, to the point where this seems a complete nonsequiter.

Here's the data if you're interested.

[Triks]

You seem to have fundamentally misunderstood the point, to the point where this seems a complete nonsequiter.

Here's the data if you're interested.

This just proves my point - he got the disenfranchised, the less-educated and the conservatives. The only thing I was wrong about are the moderate voters.

[Kalis]

There's no actual difference between someone who doesn't choose to vote because they think their vote doesn't count and someone who doesn't choose to vote because American Idol was on.

The point stands, Americans did not choose Trump as their new leader. They chose Clinton and the Electoral College overruled them.

People often don't bother to vote if they think their vote is pointless, so there is a difference. You've demonstrated that you don't understand a very simple concept. We even saw it in Brexit, where some people didn't bother to vote as they assumed remain would win.

The only real way the popular vote in an FPTP system would be meaningful is when you have something like Australia uses, where voting is compulsory, or if someone got over 50% of the possible votes (or a percentage that meant it was impossible for another candidate to win). Neither of which is applicable in the US.

[Bodakane]

Extremism is formed when a group is consistently refused the right to voice their own opinion. The backlash you are seeing right now is nothing new and nothing unexpected, given that we had 5 years of misunderstood progressivism.

This backlash started the second a black person was the democratic nom. The anger has been the same for 8 years. It was the seeds of the Tea Party. This "movement" as you call it, only won this time because Dem turnout was so low. Had the turnout been a little higher we'd be looking at another Dem POTUS as the repubs came out in the same numbers.

Also, its pretty likely that Bannon colluded with Russia to spy on government officials in order to influence the election. Which is treason. The head of the NSA has already stated that a nation state hacked Hillary to influence the election. We know Bannon has deep Russian ties. We know Trump was publicly begging Russia to keep spying.

- - - Updated - - -

No, that's not evidence. You've provided evidence that you have still not grasped what the word 'evidence' means, which is mildly amusing.

You haven't provided a link, numbers, facts or anything.
I have provided those things.

Hell, you don;'t even live here yet you have the audacity to tell me and minorities what life is like in the US.

[Blobfish]

Rebellion and Nationalism

People are sick of foreigners taking jobs from the locals.

Are sick of Political Correctness

And are sick of Governments that do not listen

In Australia.. Pauline Hanson is the next Big Thing..

And good on her too

[Vynny]

If you think that traditional conservatism was alive and well in America before Trump then you're crazy. American conservatism had become a farce that focused on trying to enforce traditionalism on those who didn't want it, ignoring the obvious issues with the economy and the widening of power between the rich and poor, and forcing Christianity into every possible place regardless of whether or not it had a right to be there. The right in America was sick long before Trump, but Trump finally killed it and made room for a new right wing that may or may not be better than the old ones who were so inept that they quote the bible as proof that climate change couldn't possibly be caused by humans. I mean, there are some decent arguments out there, but that sure as hell isn't one of em.

Hopefully this new right will actually be able to give the left some competition because without a strong right wing, the left has gone more than a little coocoo for cocoa puffs. Seriously, who would listen to a crazy, bible-thumping, traditionalist for the sake of traditionalism right winger when he/she was calling out a crazy post-modernist, Trotsky-loving, diversity over equality left winger?

[Djuntas]

I still vote this way, good enough for me.

[Caolela]

A couple of issues with the article were pointed out in post #172.

The last paragraph "Labour agrees with the Conservatives that under conditions of mounting social and political crisis, the state must be strengthened in order to defend capitalist rule." They can't possibly know that Labour supported it 'in order to defend capitalist rule', it's something they invented, Corbyn would never say anything like that.

How can you claim that their mind reading skills are accurate? It is Marxist claptrap.

Have you read Corbyn's mind to know he'd "never say anything like that", or did you just spout some claptrap of your own?

One doesn't have to put something into words or official statements. It's easy enough to observe the results between UK's Tories and Labour gov't. Watch what they do, not what they say.

[cubby]

You mean making decisions based on someone's color isn't racist? Is that what you are going to try and feed me?

Why dont you teach me... I am going by the definition that is in the Oxford and Webster's dictionaries.

You really should go by their definition - then you'd learn something new and not sound so much like a Trumper. But I'm sure you'll just jump into an ignorant argument about words you don't quite understand for a concept you know almost nothing about.

This is classic forum/armchair argumentation - take a position, no matter how wrong, and hold onto it for dear life - no matter what reality says.

Racist

(I did land on a really interesting site by trying websterdictionary.com - do NOT do this)

[Seranthor]

You really should go by their definition - then you'd learn something new and not sound so much like a Trumper. But I'm sure you'll just jump into an ignorant argument about words you don't quite understand for a concept you know almost nothing about.

This is classic forum/armchair argumentation - take a position, no matter how wrong, and hold onto it for dear life - no matter what reality says.

Racist

(I did land on a really interesting site by trying websterdictionary.com - do NOT do this)

Thank you for dodging the question put to you, I'll try it again... You mean making decisions based on someone's color isn't racist? Yes or No... it is really that simple.

[RickJamesLich]

Yes males commit more crimes. Testosterone and gender roles play huge part in that.

Are you saying there's a flaw African Americans "commit" more crimes?

The real brain buster: African American men have more testosterone compared to other races of males.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10604704/

So do you think this answers your question on why they commit more crimes? And before you cry foul, you brought up the testosterone thing, not I.

[Bodakane]

The real brain buster: African American men have more testosterone compared to other races of males.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10604704/

So do you think this answers your question on why they commit more crimes? And before you cry foul, you brought up the testosterone thing, not I.

lol. Did you read that study?

[Theodarzna]

Extremism is formed when a group is consistently refused the right to voice their own opinion. The backlash you are seeing right now is nothing new and nothing unexpected, given that we had 5 years of misunderstood progressivism.

We had a lot of a Progressiveness from both parties, mainly this severely anti-Conservative mantra of Change and Progress, but one party cloaked it in American advancement and supposed greatness.

In the End, Centre-Left and Centre-Right parties mostly towed a similar line and had similar goals. Globalization by Imperium was still the mantra of the political elite.