How're is Havoc looking in 7.1.5?

[Deleted]

I guess they will stick with the nerfs and lower the uptime on momentum or? I was sure this was suppose to be the patch that would let everyone know how the changes will be in this patch, I'm kinda dissapointed then

[Pigglix]

I think so far, the best simming build on the PTR does about 3% less ST damage than now. That build was:

Felblade - Demon Blades - First Blood - Momentum - W/E - Chaos Blades

So even if there're mechanical changes, Demonic build is still a lot behind and we're still getting a nerf.

Not in an acceptable status.

i have to ask you, but, is this new build only for ST fights?

Or this one replaces the Fel Mastery - Demon blades - Bloodlet - w/e - chaos blades or fel barrage for 2+ targets?

And if it replaces, it would still replace for people who have the legendary bracer and boots?

[Constraint]

I'm still struggling to believe anyone at Blizzard is stupid enough to think that reducing Demon Blades' proc chance by 10% was a good idea. Have they ever actually tested this from a gameplay perspective?

It's not even about the damage. It could fucking heal the boss for all I care. Just don't have us sitting around hoping that we'll actually be able to use our abilities, especially with no ring. I already have enough frustrating downtime as is.

The damage numbers themselves can be tuned. This change however kills the overall enjoyment of the spec for me, and I can't for the life of me work out what the fuck they're thinking...

[Not Againnn]

I'm still struggling to believe anyone at Blizzard is stupid enough to think that reducing Demon Blades' proc chance by 10% was a good idea. Have they ever actually tested this from a gameplay perspective?

It's not even about the damage. It could fucking heal the boss for all I care. Just don't have us sitting around hoping that we'll actually be able to use our abilities, especially with no ring. I already have enough frustrating downtime as is.

The damage numbers themselves can be tuned. This change however kills the overall enjoyment of the spec for me, and I can't for the life of me work out what the fuck they're thinking...

its their answer to people who want to play like dh has energy.

[Krille]

I'm still struggling to believe anyone at Blizzard is stupid enough to think that reducing Demon Blades' proc chance by 10% was a good idea. Have they ever actually tested this from a gameplay perspective?

It's not even about the damage. It could fucking heal the boss for all I care. Just don't have us sitting around hoping that we'll actually be able to use our abilities, especially with no ring. I already have enough frustrating downtime as is.

The damage numbers themselves can be tuned. This change however kills the overall enjoyment of the spec for me, and I can't for the life of me work out what the fuck they're thinking...

It probably accounts for the increasing fury gains from the tier set in Nighthold. Seriously it would've been out of control without any kind of nerf, constant 100% fury-cap.

[Deleted]

[QUOTE=Casban;43533594]In one scenario, the majority of people that play Demon Hunter had not played WoW before Legion at all, or much less. I don't see these people not playing anymore because of these nerfs at all.
In the other scenario, the majority of people that play Demon Hunter were already playing WoW before Legion and probably have another class as a main. These people will probably go back to those classes, and I also don't see these people not playing anymore because of these nerfs.
It would seem illogical, and I don't think I would want to play with these people regardless.

Listen i have been playing since tbc, sure i got other chars i can play but the fact is everyone of them is so far behind in terms of artifact knowledge and traits, not everyone made a backup char when the game went live, tbh if would rather quit than be so far behind others cause of blizzard lack of talent to balance classes

[Tobedeleted123]

Anyone has any actual data on the dps difference between best talent build on live and best talent build on ptr (with ring)? I'd love to know if there's even a point...

[Deleted]

It s bad .. and the ST spec, the best one on PTR loses ALL the cleave and aoe advantages of momentum and a bunch of ST dmg.

Take a moment and imagine how bad you can think it can get and ..wait for it.. it s WORSE.

[Deleted]

I agree that it looks pretty grim for us demon hunters so we need to rally against the devs and drive a harder bargain!

[HeiAggra]

What is really annoying his that we have 2 specs, DPS and TANK. We can't respec to a new DPS spec or anything. That's the problem. I bealive we should be a bit less strong on AOE and much better on ST. Also why nerf the ring when some classes like mages and shamans got BL or TW for 2 or more times on a fight? it's just silly. It's a legendary and we should feel strong to have a good legendary.

[Shirofune]

I don't play Demon Hunter, but I do play AGAINST Demon Hunters in PvP. As soon as I read the Blade Dance change, of a miniscule -4% weapon damage loss, I came here. I was not disappointed.
You lost 4%. On an ability that has no target cap, and is one of the most broken abilities I have played against. Then to top it off, you gained 30% leech in Metamorph, an ability that amps your damage in TWO ways, first with 25% haste, and second with adding Chaos Damage to your generating ability and Blade Dance.

Can someone please explain why you are all so butt hurt over changes that in the grand scheme of things, are actually pushing players to more non-cookie cutter builds?

Because we don't give a fuck about Meta leech, not while all of our damage is being hit, something that is far more important than our survival.

- Demon Speed (resets Fel Rush charges) got removed, without compensation. That alone impacts momentum a lot.
- 5% crit nerf. Crit is by far the most important stat for DHs.
- Demon Blades nerf, 75% -> 65% chance. More RNG in Fury generation, something all DHs love (PS: not).
- AotHG being gutted. We all agree it was OP as fuck on live, but it was the only thing keeping DH alive in ST. We asked for a nerf and a baseline buff... we got nerfed in both sides.

[HeiAggra]

Because we don't give a fuck about Meta leech, not while all of our damage is being hit, something that is far more important than our survival.

- Demon Speed (resets Fel Rush charges) got removed, without compensation. That alone impacts momentum a lot.
- 5% crit nerf. Crit is by far the most important stat for DHs.
- Demon Blades nerf, 75% -> 65% chance. More RNG in Fury generation, something all DHs love (PS: not).
- AotHG being gutted. We all agree it was OP as fuck on live, but it was the only thing keeping DH alive in ST. We asked for a nerf and a baseline buff... we got nerfed in both sides.

And on top of that we bring 0 tools to raid groups! Once again DH's getting screwed.

[Shirofune]

i have to ask you, but, is this new build only for ST fights?

Or this one replaces the Fel Mastery - Demon blades - Bloodlet - w/e - chaos blades or fel barrage for 2+ targets?

And if it replaces, it would still replace for people who have the legendary bracer and boots?

That's the ST build I believe.

[Utigarde]

I'm personally devastated they moved felblade to tier 1, I love both it and the eye beam talent, and am going to hate giving one up.

[Raiju]

While this is true in a perfect world, you're overly optimistic if you think that they will buff the class just because they nerf the ring when many other classes have legendaries that aren't getting touched that provide them similar if not greater dps increases. Whether the ring gives a 8% dps increase or a 4% dps increase, DH will still be in what Blizzard considers an acceptable range for damage which means it will only end up affecting top end damage. The truly awful game design is the fact that legendaries are RNG drops. Even if the best legendary for every class only provided a 3% dps increase, those without them would not be able to compete.

I've played a shaman the majority of wow - I know how it feels to be the bottom dps class. With that said, they are FAR more likely to look at out dps underperforming if we don't have a legendary propping us up. That's undeniable (And honestly every single ring defender has sounded like they have the ring and dont want their dps nerfed so far)

[Deleted]

Even though it seems like we will be shit for a while, I've accepted this to be the absolute truth- blizzard has quite possibly the worst track record for class balance, The only thing I would like to see in the future is for them to communicate their reasoning- I honestly feel that our frustration stems from the fact that none of the changes heaped upon us are justified and explained by developers.

The Q/A sessions they've done with Ion and other devs in the past could be the answer to our/ and other classes problems but they dont do enough of that. So players are naturally frustrated by Blizzards silence. I would personally feel alot better if I was told why changes had been made. I think this would also provide ptr testers/ theorycrafters with specific data and allow them to test PTR builds more efficiently and accurately. This could in-turn give data back to Blizzard for them to re-evaluate.

I honestly feel communication (lack of) is where the true problem lies.

[HeiAggra]

I've played a shaman the majority of wow - I know how it feels to be the bottom dps class. With that said, they are FAR more likely to look at out dps underperforming if we don't have a legendary propping us up. That's undeniable (And honestly every single ring defender has sounded like they have the ring and dont want their dps nerfed so far)

Hi man, in my case i do have the ring just for you to know is not the nerf to the ring. The problem lies that without the ring our ST DPS is just lame. They can nerf the ring all they want as long the buff our ST core spells. Also we can't respec to another DPS spec thats the main issue for most of us i bealive.
Peace take care.

[Firehorse]

People aren't particularly concerned with the blade dance nerf. People are concerned that several abilities saw significant nerfs in the first PTR, and in addition we saw a 5% nerf to our passive crit. PTR testing shows us sitting (with alternative *other* cookie cutter talents) doing about 8% less ST DPS than live right now.

I'm less inclined to think the sky is falling that everybody else is. If demon hunters become so unviable that nobody will bring them to groups, people will leave the game and blizzard will respond accordingly. Its the nature of this game to have high points and low points. Were absolutely top end for mythic + right now.

I'm less concerned the sky is falling right now than some other peeps, that's for sure, but were definitely doing less work on singletarget patchwork (target dummy) fights in ptr testing (sure, admittedly there is not a single true patchwork fight in the game right now, because even fights like guarm have movement mechanics and downtime).

My prediction: there has been a demon hunter in for every single world first progression kill, there are demon hunters in pretty much every top end guilds kills, and pretty much every guild runs a demon hunter or two. I predict that will continue to happen.

That's part of the problem, since we have a place in 5 man content blizzard sees no reason to keep us raid viable, we can just spam the same 5 mans we've been doing since day one for the raid level loot.

I didn't think it was possible for them to make a worse version of the game than wod but they have done it, Legion is some how worse than wod and I have to tip my hat at that level of incompetence.

[Shalakittena]

I've played a shaman the majority of wow - I know how it feels to be the bottom dps class. With that said, they are FAR more likely to look at out dps underperforming if we don't have a legendary propping us up. That's undeniable (And honestly every single ring defender has sounded like they have the ring and dont want their dps nerfed so far)

I mean obviously I have the ring and don't want my dps to go down when the patch hits. I think DH is in a good spot right now. I think if the patch hits we'll be in a significantly worse but still ok spot sans legendary shoulders and aren't really going to get any special attention.

[Dire]

Amazing. I'm super excited for the changes!