Legion PVP *LOSES* players, and does that faster than WoD

[Linri]

ive pvped every x pack, and tbh this is the first time i lost interest almost immediately.... about 2-3 weeks in

[Riistov]

After ten years of Rangedcraft, I'm ready for Meleecraft.

Um, no..just no.

Cleave comps have dominated the ladder in the past few years with the notable exception being the last season of every expansion. Do you remember how nasty Combat rogues were in WoD? what about TWD or TSG in all three WoD seasons.

The game is better when casters are more viable. It lends itself to a much more layered and cerebral game play.

[sdove05]

Legion season 1 is already ending in two weeks, see the front page.

Final participation stats (via arenamate):

3v3 ladder is 64% that of WoD season 3 on EU, 56% on US.
RBG ladder is 43% that of WoD season 3 on EU, 37% on US.

These losses are about the same percent-wise as the disastrous losses of subs for the entire WoD. And that's just the first season!

Somewhere, in the world, in the instances, etc, the good Legion bravely marches on. But in PVP we have the bad Legion that is losing players several times faster than Warlords of Draenor used to!

Good job, Holinka. Please tweet more silly pictures.

Blizzard keeping all the pvp'ers busy spamming Mythic pluses for AP, and getting alts geared. I doubt their subs are down from WoD.

[rda]

Blizzard keeping all the pvp'ers busy spamming Mythic pluses for AP, and getting alts geared. I doubt their subs are down from WoD.

(That's what I think as well if it was not clear - that Legion is overall good, and it is Legion PVP that is having a stroke.)

[Deleted]

What Blizzard has done with PvP is a direct copy from Guild Wars 2 lol. In GW2 there is no gear farming in PvP: you can only choose different stats and traits (talents) and that is it. No matter if you are lvl 2 or lvl 80 you don't get any benefits from gear.
But in GW2 at least you can chose which three or four stats you are gonna put your points in. Wanna more survivability, more healing, more crit, more direct dmg, more DoT dmg, more armor, more health and so on. In WoW PvP stats are fixed now

[ophion1990]

not suprised, PVP takes skill for the first time sense classic and all the QQ'ing starts.

^ This, so much. The amount of skill it took to hit Stormstrike and Earthshock in order to 1 shot a guy was fucking insane.

OT: I think it also has to do with class nerfs and punishing rerolls. Not to mention AP in general and to add to it, we're gonna need an even higher artifact level to max traits once 7.2 hits. You either need to do an excessive amount of PvP or do PvE/WQ's in order to level your weapon at a reasonable pace, which is a deal breaker for a lot of people. You may no longer need gear but some classes require a high honor level to get key talents, which is gonna take the same amount of time to farm as gear would. Heck, in MoP, for example, gearing was probably faster than the honor/AP grind you have now.

I'm not saying you need every artifact trait, there are some very key ones that you don't wanna pass up though (I think you want mid 20s for most specs, at the very least, probably late 20s-30 to get all the good ones). Those are currently timegated behind getting enough AK or, again, excessive farming.

Balance has always been an issue. God mode rogues in S3/4, survival/ret/DK in S5, fucking prot holy paladins, elemental in general in WotLK, Spriest in S8,... So I doubt that's really the deciding factor in the activity drop. Could always have something to do with it though. Some people might have also skipped Legion when the heard about the early version of Legion, which made it into the live game somehow.

[Mehrunes]

After ten years of Rangedcraft, I'm ready for Meleecraft.

In which parallel universe were the last ten years not meleecraft? Because in this one, Class and Spec representation in last decade points to that being the case.

not suprised, PVP takes skill for the first time sense classic and all the QQ'ing starts.

PVP in BC - WoD: Higher ilvl player wins 90% of the time.

Legion: Most skilled player that uses abilities CD's, environment and/or teammates the best wins. 90% of the time. The exceptions being hard counter classes which is another thing players have not really had to deal with for several Expacs because out gearing the other player was an easy solution.

Then again this parallel universe is even more bizarre. Vanilla PvP taking skill, lel. Especially in context of not relying on gear.

Um, no..just no.

Cleave comps have dominated the ladder in the past few years with the notable exception being the last season of every expansion. Do you remember how nasty Combat rogues were in WoD? what about TWD or TSG in all three WoD seasons.

The game is better when casters are more viable. It lends itself to a much more layered and cerebral game play.

Last seasons weren't really exceptions. Sure, caster representation picked up in them, but melee still outnumbered them. Even in WotLK, where the last season saw caster haste getting completely out of hand was counterbalanced with ArP getting out of hand as well.

[Snegovik]

By far this is the least skill based PvP season/expansion since WoW started .. The game is literally tunnel stun with occasional cross CC .. The most mongol PvP design EVER!

Some comps require a little more team work true but generally you get +1750 with no macros or addons ... Just tunnel damage and CC ..

Hint: The best left Blizz ...

u actually get 2.2k + with just tunnel these days with the right comps lol =(((

[Fheng]

Wrong. Season 5 was way worse.

KFC first season of MOP says hello as well. God that was the most pure form of cancer lol.

[shoegazing]

Legion PvP is utterly terrible

I am furious with class designers (who play the game on a freaking tablet, btw) for ruining it and I'm furious with Holinka for not standing up to them

I already canceled both of my subscriptions to this godawful game because I couldn't possibly be more disappointed than I already am

[Craaazyyy]

Legion is no wotlk, but it still shits on the shit that were MoP and WoD.

its WAY worse than mop.. and its slightly worse than WoD imo.. but i could see a point why Legion is SLIGHTLY better than wod.. both expansions are fucking shit in terms of pvp nonetheless

[Matthias]

First season of an expansion is always a mess....get a grip people.

In terms of low representation. Could it be because there is a lot more PvP content? I've barely had time to PvP this expansion since there is alway something for me to be getting on with PvE wise. Hasn't been like this since TBC for me.

[Deleted]

Maybe we can get rid of that minigame soon

[solarfallz]

Templates are absolute AIDS.

And so is Holinka's nonsensical flavor of the week rollercoaster of buffs/nerfs.

[Tyrannica]

Some here said gear is an issue and you can get gear easier in pve, blah blah.

I say, gear is an non issue in legion its not hard to get ilvl 850+ for anyone, you hardly need ilvl880 gear in pvp instances to be competitive since we get template stats there and people with more gear get maybe 1-3% more in stats - non issue.

The AP grind is a way more of a concern, because points in your weapon also give important abilities and stamina, but even this new annoying system is not the core of the problem why pvp is dead/dead.

The problem is, its simply not fun anymore, pruning was too harsh for quit some classes and due to how artifacts work people die way too fast now, easily in 2-3 GCD's. There are no outplays anymore just stupid burst and tunnel dmg.

There are no new creative pvp designs since.......yeah arena was inventend in BC, thats really sad. PvP talents aren't really a pvp game on their own.

There is still duel and ffa matching left a standard in most pvp games and they are based around that.

But i am interested in the new pvp brawls especially AB with fog of war(winter AB?) lets see how this turns out.

Looking at the players in most bigger, indeed casual guilds, i think there must be more pvp non-rated content of all sorts to keep new people and people that don't see this game as a second job or serious hobby, busy. There are simply too many of such people around in wow and those will not post here much at all.

Lets face it, legion does not even have a timless isle or ashran. I love the timless isle it was the best thing ever for me and i did not even start with mop but BC with a similar isle, however i never could attack my own faction there and was even rewarded.

And ashran while sucky for melees and nice for anything ranged, and obviously hated by all of the com still had a lot of participation, let me tell what i loved about ashran, i loved too loot enemy players corpses bones and some body parts, i liked it so much that i played ashran with 3 chars there.

I would have loved more a isle with fog of war and the ability to attack anyone though.

Yes, this is it, the fun of pvp was removed, world pvp was removed -again- on purpose. Killing npcs in towers is not pvp and should not be a world quest for pvp, real players should defend these towers, period! You can still have rating stuff and organized pvp, but why remove wpvp(there was a hotfix somehwhere ein oct. i believe that removed crossrealms from the broken isles.....that was the end of pvp for me at least, it stopped to make fun from this day on underbelly and helheim are just excusions for it)

The major mistake is to treat this game like some kind of sport, no matter if its esport arenas or esport pve raids, fact is, it started out as an easy MMORPG with the goal for people to have fun while there in this virtual world.

Destroying anything to do with wpvp and hand out a pleadora of pvp restriction like via pvp templates won't attract people to pvp. The 0,5% people that still enjoy pvp and arein glad range, is just a very small minority. They can motivate people with their streams, but they cannot provide pvp content for everyone to enjoy!

And about templates beeing absolute aids, i have to agree.

Blizz somehow mananged to destroy all 3 of the rogue specs with pvp templates, a class that was always designed for pvp in mind. Nice class mount though. lol

List me 1 class that got it worse via pvp templates, because i can't i am currently playing 5 lvl110 twinks, they all got it way better just for this single one reasion.

blieve it or not, wod was the worst expansion of wow due to lack of content, but i had much more fun with it than in legion so far. All my twinks felt useful and i had a lot ot farm and to do while doing pvp. The dueling part was also much better. The pvp gear was needed for the system to work at all. You need either pvp gear with resilence or scaling ilvls for a living wpvp world to function (and even duels to work!)

All this was removed by legion. wpvp places like helheim and underbelly are way too small. Timless isle had the correct size. wpvp must be done in a living world not a small sandbox.

lets hope the devs learned from this and will work on it, pvp brawls at least shows they are thinking about bringing back FUN to pvp.

[Jaigar]

My problem with WoW PvP is that so many games out there just do it better. Arena just isnt fun for me.

[robrusleg]

Hey guys, I'd just like to share my own experience.

I was a casual since roughly 2007 who enjoyed casual 2v2 (mage/rogue only) and random BGs. One of the reasons I quit was because although gear was changed to be much less of an issue, honor talents became the new thing gating me from having a fun arena experience. I only have time to hop on 1 or 2 times a week and it really sucks that the most viable arena builds requires max or high-level honor. If you think I'm complaining, that's fine. It just sucks that my mage bud was useless because he did not have Ice Form, Deep Shatter, etc. and I didn't have a lot of my powerful pvp talents as well.

Also, the mmorpg genre is becoming old news. More and more people have less time for games, so they look for something that requires less time commitment. This isn't true for every single individual, but it's definitely true for me and a lot of IRL buds who played WoW.

[shoegazing]

This so much. It's been decomposed and re-"designed" into something that shouldn't even be allowed to be called PvP. All depth and skill has been removed, all that is left is instant CC, ridiculous PvE designs that barely work in PvP (and Blizzard won't change too much with Honor Talents 'cus that makes the difference between PvP and PvE too big), passives and most of all damage spam.

EDIT:

Others have mentioned lack of carrots or "imbalance" and while that is also true (mainly lack of carrots) if the game is straight up BORING to play it doesn't matter how many carrots there are. And the game has been wildly imbalanced before (much more so than now) but it was still FUN to play and thus people kept playing. Now everywhere you go everyone's saying "Legion PvP is shit" (and for good reason) - that in itself is (what I believe) the main reason participation is tanking so massively. Who wants to play/get into something that everyone, even those that play it, says is a pile of shit?

I canceled my accounts and the state of affairs that you described is the exact reason why. 100% correct

[Swizzington]

I think a lot of people stopped doing pvp because you can't buy pvp gear anymore. People lack a feeling of progression, the honor talents don't replace the feels from getting gear. Whether that is logical or not, is not for me to say, I just think that's the reason.

[Glorious Leader]

(That's what I think as well if it was not clear - that Legion is overall good, and it is Legion PVP that is having a stroke.)

Well yea. They removed gear progression and apparently its still unbalanced. The first part propped up pvp progression for years.

Pvp in wow is a tricky proposition. It ostensible requires more coordination than something like lfr or dungeons but for most peoplee is completely queable.