Is challenging content really the incentive for running Mythic +?

[Deleted]

It's probably for the reward if all you see in LFG is groups demanding insanely high item levels.

edit: Why does my name have a green nameplate? Can i turn this off? Is this new to MMO-C?

[Roxtar]

It's true. Raiding would immediately become even more niche than it already is it gave no loot.
For some reason MMO devs refuse to give up on raiding and are stuck in 1998 thinking "big large fights with more people = harder = better rewards!"

And Mythic+ would continue be popular as ever if loot was removed from it too right?

Oh wait that was the same as WoD/MoP challenge modes and we know how popular that was...

[Anthony3187]

In this expansion where there are tons of different difficulty modes for dungeons and raids (along with tons and tons of RNG with gear/progression),

The most fun I've had in the entire expansion has been doing a dungeon with only 1 difficulty mode and simple but challenging bosses.

Can we get more content like Karazhan??? This is the main thing I look forward to every Tuesday atm, considering I can't make a schedule in the evenings to join a raiding guild. Challenging 5 man content without a timer and only 1 difficulty mode sure is nice.


Why fix what wasn't broken in Vanilla/TBC/Early-WOTLK? Content gets nerfed over time naturally as new content and gear gets released...

[Deleted]

So I hear a number of people claiming they run Mythic + for the challenge but in my experience a hefty chunk seem to only be running Mythic + they can outgear to the extent it removes the challenge aspect so I am curious, do you Mythic + for the challenge or just the rewards?

I run 3-4 M+ dungeons weekly, varying from +5 to +10 and have done so from the day they opened. Cant' remember if I've ever gotten a piece of loot that was useful to me. I'm certainly not wearing any pieces from M+ on me right now. So I don't think the rewards are that great, in fact they mostly suck - but they are a helluva lot of fun to run in a guild group though!

So not for the challenge, def. not for the rewards - but for the fun of doing stuff with my guildies.

- - - Updated - - -

Why fix what wasn't broken in Vanilla/TBC/Early-WOTLK? Content gets nerfed over time naturally as new content and gear gets released...

But that was incredibly broken. Spending lot of dev resources making dungeons and people would run them for a week - and after that they were useless.
Look at Kara now - it hasn't been out for very long, but it's already a complete faceroll - the only "challenging" part in it is the speed run for the mount. Luckily they have plans to split it and enable Heroic and M+ modes, so it's not all a complete waste of resources.

I prefer content that scales with power gains. None of the old stuff did that.

[hulkgor]

Are you attempting to present some scenario where raiders raid for anything but loot???

Remove loot from raids and nobody touches them with a ten foot pole. The sheer insanity of pretending otherwise is what makes the WoW community, in particular the raiders, so entertaining to watch trying to explain why THEY deserve gear, but YOU dont.


You didnt say it directly, but its implied and its absolutely preposterous. Let me guess, the attendance for your raids is higher on Tuesdays/Wednesdays but its low on Sundays right? Its cause raiders just happen to be more into raiding upon reset

What a silly thing to say.

[bmjclark]

It's for the challenge and the gear, in the same way raiding is. No one would run these things repeatedly if there was no incentive to. Running things for the challenge would get people as far as clearing a +10-15 once then never doing it again.

[Nathreim]

Chance at a legendary is the only reason I run them.

[Polarthief]

Definitely both. It's good to have stuff that's hard and doesn't require a ridiculous commitment to the game to accomplish. Mythic raiding takes a lot of commitment and a schedule to do, on top of needing 20 players! M+ only requires 5 players, never more than an hour at absolute max (unless you're very, VERY undergeared), and is still challenging as hell.

[Normie]

Well, here. I'll be happy to give you one. I like challenging group content. I don't mind a bit pulling up with friends and talking a pull over and discussing assignments on who is going to cc what and how that will be passed around with cooldowns. When you're under the gun with a clock you really can't do that. Difficulty is fine; running against a clock is less so. It's a personal preference but I suspect that challenge modes would have been at least a little more popular if there had been versions that rewarded stuff without running against a time limit. I've made this post before as have others.

I don't really see the point of any kind of reward, besides an achievement, of not achieving the standard in a part of that game that exists solely to provide difficulty without other inducements. Exactly what would a CM without a clock be?

Guilds and players of all abilities could use CMs as weekly guild content, for real rewards, without a timer, and I think that's appropriate.

[Gilgameshh]

Well, here. I'll be happy to give you one. I like challenging group content. I don't mind a bit pulling up with friends and talking a pull over and discussing assignments on who is going to cc what and how that will be passed around with cooldowns. When you're under the gun with a clock you really can't do that. Difficulty is fine; running against a clock is less so. It's a personal preference but I suspect that challenge modes would have been at least a little more popular if there had been versions that rewarded stuff without running against a time limit. I've made this post before as have others.

This is exactly how I wished dungeons would play as well. I had an incredible amount of fun in vanilla/TBC when this was still the design and I haven't had nearly as much fun since. Playing through Legion's mythic dungeons at the start of the expansion was an absolute blast that I had not felt since early Cata heroics. M+ destroyed that for me.

It's far too easy to outgear content. You hit 100 and you're at about 800 ilvl. Within weeks it's not unreasonable to be 845-850. The top players are close to 900 and we're not even 3 months into this expansion. Without such insane power creep, I think mythic dungeons could be tuned to a level that remained difficult and relevant for a far longer period of time -- no time restraints/infinite difficulty needed.

[Deleted]

I don't know why people still don't get this, a big part of the wow population, especially raiders, do stuff not for a challenge, not because they enjoy it, but because it is the fastest,easiest way of getting more, better stuff.

If you are in a really top guild like top100, I think you should be expecting to put a hell of a lot of effort in, the problem is when people much lower down the ladder fell they have to do things that way also, just because that's how they are done at the very top.

[Guran]

I miss tBC heroics. No timer, just darn hard fights that needed coordination, CC & communication to get through. (The badger system was a nice bad luck protection as well)
And if you pugged it, you could actually stop and talk about it rather than having to give up because 'random guy is clueless, costs time, gg blizz'.

I disliked CM so much I ended up paying for a boost near the end for the transmog, otherwise I would've never even bothered.
I dislike the current timer system, because:
a) Doing dungeons faster is already more gear per hour played, so that in itself is an efficiency boost.
b) Some people, especially at M8+ runs expect you to basicly have studied the dungeon before entering. Having to spend more time outside of the game reading tactics than a run takes is not fun. (For the same reason D3AH was not fun because you weren't actually playing to progress)

I really wished they made it more like this:
Trash counter is now what matters. ~90% of total trash killed with 0 deaths = 3 chests.
Dying takes off a small percentage (say 0.5-1%) but can then be compensated with extra pulls.
Scaling ramps up a bit more, wouldn't even mind the affixes being randomly generated at the start. (You got time to discuss 'em anyway)
Accidental deaths can now be compensated by pulling slightly more trash to get 3chest, wiping to get to the end is still punished. You're free (and encouraged) to talk strategy during the run, which means that pug people ACTUALLY TALK BESIDES HI & BYE.
New players can learn during runs and speed up their gear gathering by doing the core thing in the game: Do more runs and get experienced in it.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Hell no. M+ stopped being fun a while ago. The harder it is, the less fun it is also.
The rewards are so RNG that they're always shit so the incentive isn't really there at all.

I kinda have to agree.

First of all we only do it for the gear. Like with challenge modes, this time we just do it for the stats though and raid for the style. That was at least how it was during heroic EN, now that we are in mythic usually we get better chances for gear there. We do our karazhan time run, a bit of m+ for the chest next week and ignore the rest altogether. If you try to have an actual life outside of WoW that's pretty much what you have to do anyway with all the grinding.

[Deleted]

I like the challenge in m+ dungeons at higher levels and it makes a lot of fun to play at the limit. It is also pretty annoying to get content-blocked by weak or non-interested players.

[Deleted]

I kinda have to agree.

First of all we only do it for the gear. Like with challenge modes, this time we just do it for the stats though and raid for the style. That was at least how it was during heroic EN, now that we are in mythic usually we get better chances for gear there. We do our karazhan time run, a bit of m+ for the chest next week and ignore the rest altogether. If you try to have an actual life outside of WoW that's pretty much what you have to do anyway with all the grinding.

Same for me, until I got the nightbane mount and the 2 best legendaries for my spec (also the 3rd best). Now I just farm and progress EN mythic with my guild and run 1 M+10 every week and maybe M+12 if Im in the mood. Nothing else really, just by doing this and the daily Emmisary I will have 35 traits by the time we reach mythic Guarm, I dont see any reason to grind at all anymore.

[Deleted]

For a small challenge and to get possible titanforged rewards. Personally I don't want "huge challenges" in PvE as my main focus is PvP.

[Racthoh]

no, the incentive is making tons of cash selling runs.

[Aggrophobic]

So I hear a number of people claiming they run Mythic + for the challenge but in my experience a hefty chunk seem to only be running Mythic + they can outgear to the extent it removes the challenge aspect so I am curious, do you Mythic + for the challenge or just the rewards?

I don't know. I run the low tier ones for AP and legendaries.
Is it fun? Not really.

[Varaben]

So I hear a number of people claiming they run Mythic + for the challenge but in my experience a hefty chunk seem to only be running Mythic + they can outgear to the extent it removes the challenge aspect so I am curious, do you Mythic + for the challenge or just the rewards?

You're talking about two different sets of people. Some do it for challenge and some don't. It's like saying 50% of people do X and 50% of people do Y (where Y and X are opposites). MAKE UP YOUR MINDS!

Except that those could be two totally separate groups of people. There are always people who will do content just for the challenge. By and large though, there is a bigger chunk who like the challenge, but only if the rewards are good. Then there's another group who only likes content they can steamroll. It's just different people bruh.

[nekobaka]

It is something fun to run with friends and getting to progress ones character in something we enjoy is nice rather than slave away in mindless activities.