What's the point of LFR these days?

[Skrebulous]

For people who are unable to complete current content on the easiest difficulty provided, it gives them a step down so they at least see the zones and bosses and get to press some buttons for a sense of satisfaction that they do not deserve.

Guess how much us normies care what some neckbeard on MMO Champ thinks about what bosses we "deserve" to kill in a video game.

Raiding exclusivity is dead. I really enjoyed that guy from that one guild that got banned simpering about how raiders don't make any of that sweet e-sport money. Maybe get good at something people care about, because it's not 2005 anymore and raiding isn't it.

[Daffan]

Guess how much us normies care what some neckbeard on MMO Champ thinks about what bosses we "deserve" to kill in a video game.

Raiding exclusivity is dead. I really enjoyed that guy from that one guild that got banned simpering about how raiders don't make any of that sweet e-sport money. Maybe get good at something people care about, because it's not 2005 anymore and raiding isn't it.

While the other guy's elitist exclusivity argument is lame, there is an argument to be made about content pacing and the advent of content droughts even since ToC/ICC 5 mans dropping full sets and then further implementations of LFR gearing and other similar mechanics.

[JackHunter42]

There would be so much more point in LFR these days if legendaries could drop there.
I mean, some real chance, not like "I've seen it once in a lifetime, and it was not me getting it".
Would be great if pre-made or guild LFR group could have a greater chance of getting legendaries.

[Niwes]

the point of lfr these days ?

it costs blizzard more time and money to "code it out of the game" instead simply let their "autogenerate movement fights"-raid-creator-engine do its job (ofc they have to design, but the basic templates are autocreated).

thats all.

... IF you ask for "real" reasons of lfr existence these days, instead pro/contra oppinions.

[MoanaLisa]

The point of LFR is what it has always been and what Blizzard has only obliquely referred to: It's to get a bunch of people into the raid instance so player usage justifies the ROI cost of making the raid to start with.

Not that it's a terrible thing for players of all skill levels to see raids. It isn't.

But for just about any major system in the game there are justifications that they make to players and other justifications that they keep to themselves. If you like LFR, great. Run it. If you don't, then put it out of your mind and enjoy the greater pleasures of raiding with a guild.

[Niwes]

There would be so much more point in LFR these days if legendaries could drop there.
I mean, some real chance, not like "I've seen it once in a lifetime, and it was not me getting it".
Would be great if pre-made or guild LFR group could have a greater chance of getting legendaries.

yeah, i think every guild would be happy out there to be forced into more useless brainless grind content. ofc thats what they all need and searching for.

if you find sarcasm, take it. its a gift for you.

- - - Updated - - -

The point of LFR is what it has always been and what Blizzard has only obliquely referred to: It's to get a bunch of people into the raid instance so player usage justifies the ROI cost of making the raid to start with.

Not that it's a terrible thing for players of all skill levels to see raids. It isn't.

But for just about any major system in the game there are justifications that they make to players and other justifications that they keep to themselves. If you like LFR, great. Run it. If you don't, then put it out of your mind and enjoy the greater pleasures of raiding with a guild.

as nearly always, i disagree to some point also here with your oppinion. i agree to everything you said about difficulties. but i disagree strongly that story has to be told in raids. telling main story in raids was the worst thing ever happened in wow, just because of the cocnlusions of that fact.

[Rotted]

Tbf I had a thought about this earlier (and yes... Yes it did hurt)

If you've ever used lfr for gear before, from back in ds being one of those douchebag guilds that went in as a 20-24 premade to screw the looting system (and the unlucky pugs) or just hoped in legion for a one off run hoping for a legend or anything in between, then you have no fucking grounds to complain about none normal + people getting gear from it

[MoanaLisa]

i disagree strongly that story has to be told in raids. telling main story in raids was the worst thing ever happened in wow, just because of the cocnlusions of that fact.

I didn't say anything at all about how WoW stories are told. What I said was that there is a reason that most people don't often think about too much about why LFR was created and continues to exist. It has nothing to do with story and everything to do with design economics.

Blizzard developers like to make raids; they believe that raids are some of their best content; they want everyone possible to see that content so they can continue to do that. Pure and simple. Players benefit; Blizzard gets to design big, elaborate raids. Win-Win from their point of view.

[ComputerNerd]

We don't disagree that there should be lower rewards for a lower difficulty.
We object to the elitist jerks who keep wanting to remove more from content simply because it is irrelevant to them.
If you want your format to be more appealing, then stop being jerks.
You saw that the nerfing of gear rewards didn't work in WoD, because LFR is not as you keep insisting simply a choice.

It does not need reworked into a scenario format or anything of the sort.
THE reason that organised raiding isn't appealing is the organised part, the player control.
Don't inflate requirements, don't pretend that inconveniences aren't real if they don't happen to you.

[Banquetto]

Then you pick LFR and rework in something like the MoP scenarios or any post MOP scenarios

1:1 actual raid BUT you do the encounters alone or max 5 people but with AI NPC - tanking ~ healing ~ dpsing based on your role, that helps you doing the boss.

What is the goal of this change?

I mean, it would make sense if it was a hardship rounding up a group of 25 people, but given that LFR is on a queue system, it isn't.

I can't see what the return on this development effort is supposed to be?

[Flurryfang]

I like LFR.... It is a good way to boost the gear of alts every wednesday, it shows the raid to the ultra casual crowd and it gives a bit of diversity when it comes to choice in how you want to upgrade your gear.

But if you think LFR is perfect and does not have bad impact on organised raiding then you overlooking alot of stuff. I think that LFR should not only be a much better experience for both casual and hardcore players, but it should also be more of a sneak-peak into raiding then actually being raiding. Right now, most of LFR difficulty is horse-shit and easy as hell...There is no way around that sadly, but you can't make it hard either, because Blizzard tried that and people felt like they were wasting time inside LFR.

So how to fix this? Well, make LFR-raids. Make raiding enviroments, which are designed for pugs, where bosses uses abilties, which are there to test personal skill and not group-skill. If you make a wrong thing during an ability, you die, but you only you. This will stop so many players raging, because a few people are ruining a good fight. By having a unique enviroment in LFR-raids, you are also making it easier for mid/hardcore raiders to do the content, because it is new and not adding to the burn out you often get, when you do a single instance too many times. It will take some work, but i think it would add alot to the overall happiness of the playerbase

[Ehuehuecopter]

To rework it in something more than "queue and go afk" that is now? LFR I spammed now for the proc or the legendary chance and with EN also for tier set ( I just foresight the cry for this on mmo c)

So maybe they can rework it into something like a raid tutorial to give more "fantasy raid" since seems that Ion love the "fantasy" in classes atm

[Flurryfang]

We don't disagree that there should be lower rewards for a lower difficulty.
We object to the elitist jerks who keep wanting to remove more from content simply because it is irrelevant to them.
If you want your format to be more appealing, then stop being jerks.
You saw that the nerfing of gear rewards didn't work in WoD, because LFR is not as you keep insisting simply a choice.

It does not need reworked into a scenario format or anything of the sort.
THE reason that organised raiding isn't appealing is the organised part, the player control.
Don't inflate requirements, don't pretend that inconveniences aren't real if they don't happen to you.

You can't seriously mean that LFR is perfect as it is? It is just a loot fest. It requires less skill then normal/heroic dungeons, yet gives alot better gear. The reason why LFR needs to be a very bad source of great gear, is because it is as far from normal/heroic raiding as you possibly can get.

[vipers]

our guild change that only 20 ppl can go heroic/mythic raids and they don't take anyone else even if there is free space so lfr is my only option now

[Deleted]

They might not care, but the developers who invented the mode say it was a mistake so... Obviously they know something about the impact LFR has.

Source for you BULLSHIT claim that lfr failed?

As Blizzard stated before LFR is the only reason you guys have mythic so be happy its there. it wont go away. just like flying stays

[Skrebulous]

But if you think LFR is perfect and does not have bad impact on organised raiding then you overlooking alot of stuff.

I don't give one tiny crap what effect LFR does or doesn't have on organized raiding. At this point it's glaringly obvious that the vocal raiding community are basically a bunch of psychos who feel "forced" to take anything that might advance their character in any way and beat it to death to the point of insanity while complaining the entire time.

[Flurryfang]

I don't give one tiny crap what effect LFR does or doesn't have on organized raiding. At this point it's glaringly obvious that the vocal raiding community are basically a bunch of psychos who feel "forced" to take anything that might advance their character in any way and beat it to death to the point of insanity while complaining the entire time.

Well arent you an angry fellow

[Deleted]

Source for you BULLSHIT claim that lfr failed?

He was talking about Ghostcrawler posts (he is the creator of LFR)

https://m.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegen...street/d7jwm98

What design decision do you regret the most, from all games?

GC:I have a lot of regrets about Raid Finder for WoW. I am sure I worked on features that were much, much worse, but that's the first one that came to mind.
To be clear, the goal of getting more players into raiding is a good one. But the way Raid Finder turned out removed, IMO anyway, a lot of the epicness of what made raiding raiding. I also haven't played WoW in a few years, so it's entirely possible they have solved the problem by now.

He also said in MMO-C frontpage:

The altenative was to make the difficulty level so easy that you'd probably steamroll every boss and that's sort of where we ended up, but it meant you weren't really doing a rotation, lots of people were AFK and these famous bosses hit like kittens.

Daelo (Scott Mercer) was the other designer who worked with me on Raid Finder, and if I had to do it all over again, I think I would advocate we try something more like a group builder where a leader would invite (and be able to kick) people.

[Eats Compost]

I think they expected LFR to be a suitable content mode for casual guilds, and were disappointed at the way it ended up being. Trying to kill two birds (solo players, casual guild players) with one stone was a mistake.

It was a broader problem centering around LFR not being a suitable endgame. It ticked the accessibility boxes, but it never actually succeeded at being anyone's "endgame" in the conventional sense. It ended up being much more like a Vault of Archavon loot piñata - people will do it for the loot, but it doesn't give people a reason to feel better about having that loot in of itself. That's the fate of all one-and-done content that assumes players will win from the start.

Flex raiding ended up being the thing that LFR was not.

[Skrebulous]

I'm happy with my loot pinata. If you guys wanna dedicate your lives to raiding and base your self-worth on it, that's your damage. But we're going into 2017 now and I'm pretty sure WoW has had LFR for longer than it was without it. Move on.