Is it bad form to kick and replace someone before the raid even starts?

[beeftotem]

I would take the lesser geared tank just because if we clear it with him than he gets the 3/3 and I might be able to call him the next raid to see if he want s to run it the next week.

[Halicia]

Would you kick yourself if you found someone doing the same job as you with better gear?

Raidleading isn't gear dependant though. And thats the job he was doing by organizing the pug.

To be fair, I've led multiple raids without actually being in the raid, but that was when it was to the benefit of people I actually gave a !@#$ about, and not random pugs that joined to mooch gear while doing as little as possible to earn it.

[Eats Compost]

Honestly, it's a fine line. It'd be selfish if it was just for the benefit of the RL, but it sorta benefits everyone present and contributes to the overall success of the raid. This is particularly relevant if you aren't 100% sure that the group you have can make it all the way through - you'd stand to gain a lot from having a much better-geared raid member.

But if we're talking about normal/heroic raiding, then the old tank should be able to swap to DPS, right? Tanks have a hard limit, but the DPS limit is far more malleable thanks to flexible raid sizes. And if that tank has a half-decent amount of points in their offspec weapon, they should be able to perform decently. I would think that the raid leader's first approach would be to ask them if they can DPS instead, to let in a better-geared tank.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Raidleading isn't gear dependant though. And thats the job he was doing by organizing the pug.

To be fair, I've led multiple raids without actually being in the raid, but that was when it was to the benefit of people I actually gave a !@#$ about, and not random pugs that joined to mooch gear while doing as little as possible to earn it.

If you want to make the argument that "his job is the raid leader" than by that same logic he should kick himself out the moment a better raid leader became available.

[Halicia]

If you want to make the argument that "his job is the raid leader" than by that same logic he should kick himself out the moment a better raid leader became available.

How do you know who's a better raidleader based on ILVL alone ?

[klaps_05]

You dont know either tanks - so make a decision. The outcome will show how good You are as a raid leader, has nothing to do with being an asshole.

[Teebone]

Yep. Total dick.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

How do you know who's a better raidleader based on ILVL alone ?

Same way you know who's the better tank...you look at their raid progression.

[Sencha]

Looking for approval, OP?

Anyway pugs are already a mess. Also, people can just start the group if they are unhappy about the way they're treated. But they are lazy and usually let someone else take care of inviting players. And they leave at first wipe.

Pugs in a nutshell.

[Deleted]

It might be good for the raid itself (Chances still are the lower geared tank would perform better).

Does it make you a dick doing it?
Yes, and a huge one at that.

[Charge me Doctor]

so you disregard the only objective metrics you have because they could, could, be fake?

Our logic is very different

ilvl is objective only to say if the character is better (and even when i say so it's a HUGE stretch, because of how secondary stats work), not a player. Logs are good and objective metric to tell if the player is any good, but not ilvl or achievements

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Kicking someone pre-raid because they show up unprepared, wasted, or causing other problems is perfectly acceptable. Taking up their time and then kicking them because you found someone (you think) is better is a jerk move. Please put me on ignore so I don't accidentally sign up to tank for you: Peacekeeper Benhir

[Arbiter]

How do you know who's a better raidleader based on ILVL alone ?

Same way OP magically knew that the higher ilvl tank would be better than the lower ilvl tank?

[SandmanActual]

How do you know who's a better raidleader based on ILVL alone ?

How do you know who's a better tank based on iLvl/achievements alone?

Can you guaruntee that tank wasn't pushed through damage by insane healing or DPS? You can't. Unless you look at parses, you simply cannot.

[PosPosPos]

Do what you want, it's your group, your rules(or lack thereof).

If I make a group, I kick and keep whoever I want based on any or no reasoning, it's a game after all.