State of hunters - Q&A w/ Ion

[Chickensoup23]

Marksmanship Hunter
- The team is mostly happy with Marksman Hunters now.

Interesting.

We are low on every single fight except Dragons and Illgynoth due to padding.When it comes to single-target, we are also bad. Hunters are looking sad right now, with no improvements in sight.

[ydraw]

"Overall the team is mostly happy with balance on live right now, in terms of the overall DPS picture. There are a couple of specific outliers, such as extreme Surrender to Madness cases."

"Marksmanship Hunter
The team is mostly happy with Marksman Hunters now."

Welp. Get used to being garbage tier on single target for the remainder of the expansion I guess.

[threads]

might as well reroll now if you want to enjoy the rest of legion

[Emerald Archer]

Interesting.

We are low on every single fight except Dragons and Illgynoth due to padding.When it comes to single-target, we are also bad. Hunters are looking sad right now, with no improvements in sight.

Have you done anything at all to check ptr? Our ST is going up. We're literally getting a ST buff. So now we'll have alright ST, and god tier AoE. Sounds fair.

[lazypeon100]

Not sure what to say at this point. This was one of my (many) questions I asked. Rather disappointed and not sure how to get across that our mechanics feel like ass.

[Emerald Archer]

Also, the only fights we're low on, is Nythendra, Ursoc and Cenarius. Having 4/7 fights we're strong to godly on, is pretty damn good.

[ydraw]

Also, the only fights we're low on, is Nythendra, Ursoc and Xavius. Having 4/7 fights we're strong to godly on, is pretty damn good.

And Cenarius, Guarm and Odyn. So we're trash on 6/10 fights.

[lazypeon100]

Also, the only fights we're low on, is Nythendra, Ursoc and Cenarius. Having 4/7 fights we're strong to godly on, is pretty damn good.

I think a lot of hunters are more concerned that the class mechanically feels like ass right now, not that our DPS is a huge issue.

[Emerald Archer]

And Cenarius, Guarm and Odyn. So we're trash on 6/10 fights.

I misspoke, I meant cenarius. We're fine on Xavius.

So, we're strong-godly, on 5/10 fights, and with our ST damage increase, then we'll be strong-godly on 8/10. That's very good.

Come on guys, we aren't Warlocks, we're better than this whiny stuff.

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I think a lot of hunters are more concerned that the class mechanically feels like ass right now, not that our DPS is a huge issue.

I think plenty have issues with it mechanically, this post though, is a dps complaint thing. Which really isn't a problem mm has, especially with our buffs in 7.1.5

[ydraw]

I misspoke, I meant cenarius. We're fine on Xavius.

So, we're strong-godly, on 5/10 fights, and with our ST damage increase, then we'll be strong-godly on 8/10. That's very good.

We are not fine on Xavius. We can do a great job of padding meters with useless damage to nightmare tentacles.

Around 25% of MM hunter damage on Xavius is completely useless splash damage to nightmare tentacles. On boss damage we are stone motherless last.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...metric=bossdps

Again, All 3 hunter specs are trash on 6/10 fights this tier. If you think that's fine I don't know what to say.

[Emerald Archer]

We are not fine on Xavius. We can do a great job of padding meters with useless damage to nightmare tentacles.

On boss damage we are stone motherless last.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...metric=bossdps

Again, All 3 hunter specs are trash on 6/10 fights this tier. If you think that's fine I don't know what to say.

You're constantly missing the point of, We are getting a ST buff in 7.1.5.

[ydraw]

I misspoke, I meant cenarius. We're fine on Xavius.

So, we're strong-godly, on 5/10 fights, and with our ST damage increase, then we'll be strong-godly on 8/10. That's very good.

Come on guys, we aren't Warlocks, we're better than this whiny stuff.

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I think plenty have issues with it mechanically, this post though, is a dps complaint thing. Which really isn't a problem mm has, especially with our buffs in 7.1.5

You don't really have any idea how our DPS will stack up against other classes in 7.1.5. Blizzard have flat out said they are fine with DPS balance at the moment. There's no reason to believe the situation will improve.

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You're constantly missing the point of, We are getting a ST buff in 7.1.5.

You are constantly missing the point that many other classes are too. Likelihood is we will still be bottom tier because we are miles behind at the moment.

[Emerald Archer]

You don't really have any idea how our DPS will stack up against other classes in 7.1.5. Blizzard have flat out said they are fine with DPS balance at the moment. There's no reason to believe the situation will improve.

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You are constantly missing the point that many other classes are too. Likelihood is we will still be bottom tier because we are miles behind at the moment.

A lot of classes are getting nerfs too. There's no point in calling that the sky is falling, when you do not know how it will be, you do not know how our dps will line up against theirs. Because as it is on life, Hunters are highly desired in raids, and will be moreso in 7.1.5. AND we line up quite well against other specs on the ptr right now.

Wait and see, there's no point in getting upset over a "theory" you have on how we'll be after the patch.

[ydraw]

Keep kidding yourself boyo.

[Aggrophobic]

You're constantly missing the point of, We are getting a ST buff in 7.1.5.

Oh but they aren't done with the PTR yet.

[Flurryfang]

Interesting.

We are low on every single fight except Dragons and Illgynoth due to padding.When it comes to single-target, we are also bad. Hunters are looking sad right now, with no improvements in sight.

Yeah, try using a real overview of dmg instead of only cenarius. MM is pretty high on the list when it comes to all fights overall.

Also, somebody have to be worst at single target, yet in mythic+ dungeons, i see high dmg output from MM hunters there in general. Also overall, i see many hunters do extremly well in both normal and heroic raiding. Don't only use mythic raiding as a mark for a class being good or bad.


Edit: Also, if you look at lower item lvls then highest possible, you will see that not even survival is in the lowest 3. Ion has talked about this before. If you just look at logs overall, you might get a distorted view of how things really are.

[Aiphoenix]

What's the point of having decent dps, when the class is god-awful boring to play (like a shit caster), and useless in pvp? MM is mayhaps the most slaughtered spec in the game atm, and with no improved mechanics in the horizon, you might as well just delete the spec.

[last1214]

Current marksmen single Target dps isn't good. This is true. I don't think blizzard really knew whether or not it would be this way, but they never saw a need to buff our single target because our cleave is pretty alright when the odd situation arises.

Honestly, who knows how good or bad marksmen's single target will end up once 7.1.5 is live? Certainly not Blizzard. Most things regarding balance, or classes that throw off balance in this game, end up happening by accident. I don't think blizzard foresaw shadow Priest ending up super good. Last expac they didn't foresee the old dot weaving cop shadow priest build being a viable play style. Pretty sure when a class ends up off the charts its by accident, then blizzard tries to not nerf them as hard as they might deserve to get nerffed.

The only downside to all this is they seem to be pretty conservative when it comes to handing out buffs. So pretty much when hunter lost the dice roll at the start of the expac, it was also destined to have a long hard road toward respectable single target dmg.

[ydraw]

Also, somebody have to be worst at single target

All 3 hunter specs don't have to be the 3 worst single target specs though, which is the current situation.

It would be nice if at least 1 hunter spec had decent single target so we could swap to that spec for single target fights. But all 3 hunter specs are garbage tier.

[Flurryfang]

All 3 hunter specs don't have to be the 3 worst single target specs though, which is the current situation.

It would be nice if at least 1 hunter spec had decent single target so we could swap to that spec for single target fights. But all 3 hunter specs are garbage tier.

All 3 hunter specs are quite viable for normal/heroic raiding and mythic+ undtil high tiers. MM and BM are after that quite viable in mythic raiding and high mythic+. Garbage tier is quite wrong, since hunters see quite a good amount of participation in most raiding scenarios, so i think you should word it something else then garbage... Maybe "not optimal" would be better

I do agree, that hunters should have a spec, that is all about single target, which i hope they will do with survival, since its core rotation is focused around a single target ability. I think that the talk about having a single target spec within the hunter class could be something Blizzard would agree on, but that will only happend when people stop drowning the forums with these god awefull excuses of proof. Just because hunters are bad on a couple of fights, does not mean that the class is garbage. Especially when they dominate specific bosses and lower tiered raiding.