Too many guilds, not enough players?

[Halyon]

The grind is the problem. You need tons and tons of AP, you get time-barriered by the class hall for 2 legendary equips instead of 1, said legendaries and that BS 'bad luck protection', and if you even get a legendary that isn't just an expensive paperweight with stats.

I quit some time ago, permanently, from my perspective, it was mostly the afforementioned grind, that is then led into the fact that you will never get back up if you fall behind or get unlucky, because people demand way more than what's actually beneficial. If I wanted to pug mythics to at least try and put in some effort, I get declined over 20 times in a row, even on the ones were my ilvl passes. And those are few in-between the "LFM M+2 must have 865ilvl + legendary"...for real? If this is how the community wants to do shit, be my guest, but it's your problem that you can't find people then. And even then, if I made my own group, there were often the case were some queen of a player would just up and quit mid-run because they didn't like the pace, thus wasting my key. Or if there were hitches, which tbh, I expect when it's a pug, but as long as we beat the timer, Idgaf, and I make that clear in the recruitment.

The mentality's just fucked...

It's way too much work for not nearly enough gain. Fuck it.

[Deleted]

And those are few in-between the "LFM M+2 must have 865ilvl + legendary"...for real? If this is how the community wants to do shit, be my guest, but it's your problem that you can't find people then. And even then, if I made my own group, there were often the case were some queen of a player would just up and quit mid-run because they didn't like the pace, thus wasting my key. Or if there were hitches, which tbh, I expect when it's a pug, but as long as we beat the timer, Idgaf, and I make that clear in the recruitment.

The mentality's just fucked...

It's way too much work for not nearly enough gain. Fuck it.

My own cure for this cancer is to set up my own groups with descriptions carefully designed to trigger snowflakes that care to read them... and then reject overly overgeared people anyway.

[Halyon]

My own cure for this cancer is to set up my own groups with descriptions carefully designed to trigger snowflakes that care to read them... and then reject overly overgeared people anyway.

Yeah, I mentioned that in my post as well. It isn't a cure.

[Lodreh]

I feel the opposite is needed. If I could join cross realm guilds I'd be more likely to raid in a traditional sense. I have RL friends that play on different servers... if I could pull all of them together in a guild... that would be epic.

[Khorneflake]

There is no-one to recruit, yet the requirements are way too fuckin high. I don't mean skill, cause you should always go for the people that play well. But gear, AP level, experience of fights! I mean if you want people to join you, you have to accept fact that you need to show em how the fights are done and gear em up a bit. Also don't expect no life lvl of AP you twats.

Most decent guilds ask for logs tbh, not item level, but depending on what content you want to do you can't expect guilds to recruit you and funnel you gear in the space of 2-3 weeks... most of "those" people do that and leave, so it's perfectly fair to ask for on par gear and artifact level etc and use your logs to measure up whether you're worth a trial.

[Ham on Rye]

The problem is that everyone thinks that their new guild is special and is going to be awesome. But they have no idea how to run a guild, or a raid, and as a result, there's lots of small, shitty guilds out there. This means that the player base of interested raiders is spread too thin. The guild situation would be just fine if there weren't so many special snowflakes out there who can't handle being just a guild member and simply *have* to run their own.

[dakalro]

To those who are getting a lot of apps - how many are coming from lower level dissolving guilds?

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Right - how many people actually have 20 people they want to hang out and play with? Most groups end at 6 or 7, and twenty is also too many for people to be able to just chill out and banter during raids.

My experience from 7 years of hardcore raiding? I would play with any/all of the people in the guilds I was in, hang out with most. Personalities clash sometimes but it's usually just heat of the moment. Sometimes you make mistakes and you find it hard admitting them - heh, egos; sometimes people believe you make mistakes and you find it hard not to go ape.

[Gandrake]

ITT: Guilds that aren't good enough to attract a lot of players but still expecting amazing apps to just fall into their lap whining about amazing apps not falling into their lap.

I think people just want a starting point to work with and to just do the content...

I quit the game because mythic was unbearably difficult for 90% of players and the amount of time you had to spend recruiting for it was so soul draining I could not enjoy the game anymore. Then my group fell apart and there was a negative atmospehere even when we did raid.

Because when you had a 10 man guild, it was like ok like 3 of the people in this group are garbage. But they are bodies. They might not do as good as they should but they show up and try.

There weren't that many people you could look at and realistically say to yourself were a big enough problem to cause a drag on a group. Then with 20 man mythic there's all these people with different opinions on what the guild should be about. and I honestly just hated it. People who don't show up/are always having to leave complain loot gets passed to people who always show up and do their job.

and then before you know it you have a 10 man roster all over again

after 2 tiers i decided raiding wasn't worth my time and haven't done it in any competitive capacity since

[kary]

I think people just want a starting point to work with and to just do the content...

I quit the game because mythic was unbearably difficult for 90% of players and the amount of time you had to spend recruiting for it was so soul draining I could not enjoy the game anymore. Then my group fell apart and there was a negative atmospehere even when we did raid.

Because when you had a 10 man guild, it was like ok like 3 of the people in this group are garbage. But they are bodies. They might not do as good as they should but they show up and try.

There weren't that many people you could look at and realistically say to yourself were a big enough problem to cause a drag on a group. Then with 20 man mythic there's all these people with different opinions on what the guild should be about. and I honestly just hated it. People who don't show up/are always having to leave complain loot gets passed to people who always show up and do their job.

and then before you know it you have a 10 man roster all over again

after 2 tiers i decided raiding wasn't worth my time and haven't done it in any competitive capacity since

Sounds like you're comparing 10man normal to 20man mythic. You couldn't do 10man heroic bosses with 3 limp raiders, like at all.

[kamuimac]

Most decent guilds ask for logs tbh, not item level, but depending on what content you want to do you can't expect guilds to recruit you and funnel you gear in the space of 2-3 weeks... most of "those" people do that and leave, so it's perfectly fair to ask for on par gear and artifact level etc and use your logs to measure up whether you're worth a trial.

well thats the risk you have to take as guild - if you dont want to take that risk and arent in one of server top guilds your guild is as good as dead due to lack of "fresh blood" which would allow to replace burned out bored raiders - simple as that.

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The problem is that everyone thinks that their new guild is special and is going to be awesome. But they have no idea how to run a guild, or a raid, and as a result, there's lots of small, shitty guilds out there. This means that the player base of interested raiders is spread too thin. The guild situation would be just fine if there weren't so many special snowflakes out there who can't handle being just a guild member and simply *have* to run their own.

maybe its time for blizzard to step in and start to organize "mega-guilds" under leadership of blizzard emplyed GMs/officers who would lead organize events etc and brought players closer together this way .

[Deleted]

In my case I got burned out. Was in a mythic guild but they were too hardcore for my taste. I can't be spending 4 hours raiding 3 times a week. That is just freaking insane in today's world. And then I still need time to do mythics, get AP, maybe do world quest?!

I can't even say mythic raiding is difficult it's mostly a bunch of gear checks and not being a spaz. I only got 4/7 mythic before getting burned out. Now I barely log in to play at all.

Sorry I'm human, guilds are just a chore now with these attendance requirements.It's just a stupid game I don't want to take it seriously anymore. I have a life with responsibilities I don't need a game with them.

[Saluun]

Honestly most of the block you're perceiving here is in your own mind. A lack of confidence or insecurity somewhere that you just need to put to one side.

One of the biggest problems is the more hardcore/try-hard guilds are actually at the level you think you're aiming at. They take it very seriously, they'll watch top guild strategies and get annoyed when they can't execute them.

The AP farm & Titanforged system actually means its in the interest of most guilds to have a quick hour blast-through of EN heroic still. It's a development path into the main raid team. There's nothing wrong with starting at heroic, there's nothing really wrong with starting at mythic. Get some logs of yourself in pugs, see where you're ending up. Compare that with the guilds you're maybe interested in joining, or are actively recruiting. If you can get close to, or surpass, their parses while in a pug compared to what they're doing in a guild then you've got a good chance of being useful to that guild.

Yeah I agree, I probably could use more confidence and thanks for the advices will try to do so. In general tho, I think the main issue is that alot of times guilds are putting their standards too high wich I can understand at some point, but then they should not wonder that they are not getting many applies. Also I think many guilds don't really know what the following terms are really meaning like "casual, hardcore, semi-hardcore, progressive". They are advertising themselves for example hardcore and in reality they are very far away from being hardcore and so on.

[Deleted]

maybe its time for blizzard to step in and start to organize "mega-guilds" under leadership of blizzard emplyed GMs/officers who would lead organize events etc and brought players closer together this way .

Who would ever follow them? Let's say there's a guild out there made by an employee of the very same company that introduced the legiondaries, axed flight and castrated all the casual content throughout WoD. Why should I want anything to do with the leader except maybe call him his proper name? Do you think they would properly appreciate a raid boss kill when folks run up to loot it and the prevalent comment from just about anyone is "aw yay, another useless piece of shit drop"?

[Aurabolt]

A problem no one wants to acknowledge is the general lack of interest in socializing by the WoW Community. This is nothing Blizzard can "force" people to do. The WoW Community is the way it is because the WoW Community wants it that way.

I will admit, when I first heard about WoW back in 2004, I refused to have anything to do with the game mostly because of things I heard about the WoW Community on various websites. When I started playing WoW in 2008, I found out for myself it wasn't as severe as I thought. 8 years later, the things I heard about in passing back in 2004 have now become a reality.

Everyone wants to stay in their own lane and not talk to anyone. Asking for help on a public channel gets the dismissive "Google it" or "check Wowpedia". Apparently just not responding isn't good enough. I feel like if that's gonna be the gase, there should just be servers for that kind of mindset.

I also hate the fact that you need to pay people in Gold just to make a Guild. REALLY??? The idea that you need to pay people to sign a guild charter if you want to form a guild prettymuch stops people from bothering to try making one on any server. It shouldn't be expected.

People dont want to make applications, it is a game not a job.

So glad someoneone said it.

This is a mindset that I never understood about MMOs. Why do people treat them like full-time jobs?

biggest problem i run into with guilds is people in 5+ year old guilds that are stuck going nowhere, with officers have burned out but still cling to the nostalgia of their golden days. Who have aspirations for serious raiding but at the same time have long time members they don't want to let go whos life situation has changed (kids, work, etc). They try to make it work but it's a never ending uphill battle and nobody is really happy, and many of them would be better of switching to a guild that suits their current wants, but if they leave the whole thing will collapse in on itself.

Yeah, these are some interesting guilds. They know their best days were 3 or more expansions back but due to sentimentality they refuse to disband. All you can really do is just leave guilds like this or convert them into social guilds in my book.

The community imo has just hit an all time low, making it difficult to find solid players without their own, personal agenda.

All guilds are like that to some degree and have been since Cata. The problem is more and more either use deceptive recruitment methods (Just need a role player to replace someone who left but have no sense of direction) or have a clique (most common) and just want to fill a PUG opening on a longer-term basis. Or even worse, you end up getting picked up by a guild dealing with drama and it disbands shortly after you join.

[alturic]

So glad someoneone said it.

This is a mindset that I never understood about MMOs. Why do people treat them like full-time jobs?

I was going to go a different route with my response, but I suppose it can best be summed up like this. You are the exact person guilds who care about actually clearing content and not accepting any random person, don't want. The great thing? They don't care either though considering you couldn't do the first simple thing the guild asks of you.

On the flip-side, these guilds are the exact guilds you don't want to be in, nor would actually be able to be in.

Note: You is referring to those of you who have the mindset of applying to a guild being insane.


As for this:

Everyone wants to stay in their own lane and not talk to anyone. Asking for help on a public channel gets the dismissive "Google it" or "check Wowpedia". Apparently just not responding isn't good enough. I feel like if that's gonna be the gase, there should just be servers for that kind of mindset.

Why do people find it to be such a bad thing to tell people "Google it", and that goes with any question in life. Do people who take offense to a reply saying "Google it" not realize that in the amount of time it took them to ask the question, they could have gotten the result, instantly?

Do you call a plumber and say "I have a faucet that keeps dripping, how do I fix it" or a mechanic and say "My car seems to be making a clunking noise when turning, what could it be and how can I fix it", instead of just Googling it? Hint: People don't want to be bothered with such silly questions that are easily answered if the person just put in the effort to look it up.

I suppose though, it goes to show the mentality of the player. If they can't be assed to Google a simple question, then obviously they won't want to apply to a guild.

[Aurabolt]

The problem is that everyone thinks that their new guild is special and is going to be awesome. But they have no idea how to run a guild, or a raid, and as a result, there's lots of small, shitty guilds out there. This means that the player base of interested raiders is spread too thin. The guild situation would be just fine if there weren't so many special snowflakes out there who can't handle being just a guild member and simply *have* to run their own.

I agree to a certain extent. I do tthink Blizzard should step in and allow people to create specialized guilds: Raiding, PvP, Achievements, Transmog, Social, etc. I think that would help alot in many regards. It would also be helpful if Blizzard gave guilds the ability to merge.

There should also be Public and Private Guilds. Public Guilds can be joined by prettymuch anyone who is interested. All you need to do is ask. Private Guilds are more for hardcore raiding and have a vetting process that must be passed first in order to join. The game handles the specifics as set by the GM so no third party methods are necessary.

While I also agree you need to learn to be a guild member before you can be a guild master, I also think charters should be eliminated entirely. Their purpose was rendered obsolete in Cata with Guild Levels, Perks and Rewards.

[alturic]

I agree to a certain extent. I do tthink Blizzard should step in and allow people to create specialized guilds: Raiding, PvP, Achievements, Transmog, Social, etc. I think that would help alot in many regards. It would also be helpful if Blizzard gave guilds the ability to merge.

There should also be Public and Private Guilds. Public Guilds can be joined by prettymuch anyone who is interested. All you need to do is ask. Private Guilds are more for hardcore raiding and have a vetting process that must be passed first in order to join. The game handles the specifics as set by the GM so no third party methods are necessary.

While I also agree you need to learn to be a guild member before you can be a guild master, I also think charters should be eliminated entirely. Their purpose was rendered obsolete in Cata with Guild Levels, Perks and Rewards.

Do you realize your idea is already implemented, exactly? You're just bitching about it. I can make a guild and it's a raiding guild if we say it is. It's a social guild, if we say it is.

I can make my guild public by allowing any random person in. I can make my guild private by having a vetting process... voila application.

[Pony Soldier]

I've just been seeing a lot of those guilds that spam in trade chat about joining their guild and have like 5000 members and only like 10 of them consistently come on. I'm in one of them on one of my characters just for the perks and most of time it just ends up dying because no one has any real idea what they want to do. They're kinda just like "yeah! we're going to raid and PvP and RP and quest and run dungeons and all sorts of stuff!" and then when you actually need help or when you ask someone to join your group for a dungeon or something no one answers despite there being like 10-20 people on.

In my ten years of playing this game I have only been in 2 guilds that I liked and I am still in one of them. Been in this guild for years now. Sadly my one friend who is also in the guild told me it kinda died because of WoD. I think people these days in WoW are just sick of putting so much time and effort into guilds and just want to do things on their own and I really don't blame them. To be in a serious raiding guild you have to dedicate a lot of your time in a day and form your schedule around theirs as if it's another job and people (like me) don't have the time nor the patience for that. So I imagine most people are just doing LFR or making their own groups by using the LFG tool. Less drama and more convenient.

[Aurabolt]

I was going to go a different route with my response, but I suppose it can best be summed up like this. You are the exact person guilds who care about actually clearing content and not accepting any random person, don't want. The great thing? They don't care either though considering you couldn't do the first simple thing the guild asks of you.

On the flip-side, these guilds are the exact guilds you don't want to be in, nor would actually be able to be in.

Note: You is referring to those of you who have the mindset of applying to a guild being insane.

Just so you know, I've been in progressive raiding guilds. Didn't have a problem meeting the requirements to join either. So no, I don't have a problem with progressive raiding or progressive guilds for that matter.

What I DO have a problem with--and I'm sure you intentionally ignored my question on this--is guilds and players treating WoW like it's a full-time job. If that's how you want to view the game, more power to ya. I play WoW for personal enjoyment first. The hardcore guilds I was with didn't have a problem with that. Of course, I had the skillset to back up my attitude so they put up with me in other words (LOL).

As for this:

Why do people find it to be such a bad thing to tell people "Google it", and that goes with any question in life. Do people who take offense to a reply saying "Google it" not realize that in the amount of time it took them to ask the question, they could have gotten the result, instantly?

The fact that you're seriiously asking this...I seriously can't believe you're seriously asking this.

If you don't wanna be bothered answering someone's question in-game, just don't say anything. I was never "that person" but the rare time I asked something in a public channel on any of the 10 severs I've played on since mid-TBC, I always got an answer. Usually instantly. I assume those who answered just happened to know thw answer to the question I asked.

...Now, if we're talking something like "How do you do the Blood Wing Part of the Shadowmourne Quest Chain?" Then yes, I would defiinitely say ALT-TAB and do your resarch. Something like "Where is the Pandaria PvE Quartermaster?", most should be able to answer. Something like "How do I find the Bank in SW/Org?", while a silly question since there's two in both someone should be able to answer. I'm just asking for a bit of sense is all.

[Gandrake]

Sounds like you're comparing 10man normal to 20man mythic. You couldn't do 10man heroic bosses with 3 limp raiders, like at all.

ok so garbage was probably a strong word

but you know the guys always derping it up a little bit, they do the basic stuff and you get by with that but they could be doing so much better - they were not irreplaceable. The kind of people you can deal with, but you will bring in a trial to replace them at your first ideal opportunity.

Sure, but no one really has a reason to whine about recruitment. There's a metric fuckton of players out there wanting to raid. Finding people isn't the real issue, the issue is that guilds don't want to put any effort into the process. They're waiting for people who are mythic experienced and geared to come randomly drop into their struggling-with-heroic guild, or something equally silly.

Show them someone with decent experience who is currently "behind the curve", and they'll go on rants about how they're not a charity and they don't want to carry people and blah blah while simultaneously whining that they can't recruit anyone.

In WoD it was hard for us to even build a core of 20 people who would show up regularly enough to even do mythic. (i havent raided since brf ended)