[HOLY] Holy Sh*t!: Legion Edition

[trm90]

Im talking about WoD. Maybe I am used to Hpals being op I don't know. It's not like we are bad right now, we are ok but definitely not one of the stronger healers. I also don't buy the argument that we are essential.

I am genuinely curious, why exactly do you think we're not stronger healers? We are second right behind Resto Druids (in terms of desirability) and pack loads of utility and defensives. We might not be #1 HPS but we are usually 2nd to 3rd overall.

Healer balance is okay right now, but the best thing Blizzard can do is slightly shift their design philosophy: some healers clearly have more utility than others, those notably being Paladins and Shamans, and healers without utility should have flat out better throughput, assuming Blizzard has no plans to give some healers more utility. Basically, MWs and Holy Priests need big throughput buffs (either mana cost reductions or HPS buffs), because the reality is that there isn't a particularly special reason to bring either of them over us, Shamans, or Druids.

[Smag]

In all honesty I'm waiting to hear a legit reason how the belt will be good. I just can't see anything that empowers our wings by adding more healing to them useful as wings are already crazy powerful.

Well, they are, if you thinking in terms of average raider health pool. But consider tank health pool. I've had a BUNCH of moments when during mythic progression I've had to spam FoL into a tank just to keep him alive, and he couldn't be topped off fast enough. Having that extra punch on the wings makes a difference. Also, it's more mana efficient if you consider infused HLs.

[Taeldorian]

Well, they are, if you thinking in terms of average raider health pool. But consider tank health pool. I've had a BUNCH of moments when during mythic progression I've had to spam FoL into a tank just to keep him alive, and he couldn't be topped off fast enough. Having that extra punch on the wings makes a difference. Also, it's more mana efficient if you consider infused HLs.

Yeah I guess that makes sense. It'll be interesting to see how everything turns out.

[Deleted]

In all honesty I'm waiting to hear a legit reason how the belt will be good. I just can't see anything that empowers our wings by adding more healing to them useful as wings are already crazy powerful.

You do realize that AW is only 35% increased healing right? The belt doubbles that to 70% and you say its not good... AW is not "crazy powerful" it used to be in WoD but we are playing legion now fyi.

Every other post I see from you is just wrong/delusional, please stop talking about things you have no clue on.

[Taeldorian]

You do realize that AW is only 35% increased healing right? The belt doubbles that to 70% and you say its not good... AW is not "crazy powerful" it used to be in WoD but we are playing legion now fyi.

Every other post I see from you is just wrong/delusional, please stop talking about things you have no clue on.

Oh? Name one please. Interesting to see you getting aggressive as usual though. Go shitpost somewhere else.

I also said "I could be wrong" and "I don't know". I didn't state anything as fact. I know reading comprehension is hard for some people but get better at it.

It's funny how you can make a post like this calling someone out but provide nothing aside from your "opinion". Show me some numbers. Let's see how good it is.

[Deleted]

Oh? Name one please. Interesting to see you getting aggressive as usual though. Go shitpost somewhere else.

I also said "I could be wrong" and "I don't know". I didn't state anything as fact. I know reading comprehension is hard for some people but get better at it.

It's funny how you can make a post like this calling someone out but provide nothing aside from your "opinion". Show me some numbers. Let's see how good it is.

Did the part where it goes from 35% to 70% completely go over your head? We are talking a 6% healing increase on a fight where there is constant damage and possibly more on fights with burst windows.

The bracers on the other hand is a net healing and hpm loss on everyone except for the tanks compared to FoL. In other words you only cast freedom when otherwise you would have used lotm and therefore it is a terrible legendary.

Your statement of "I could be wrong" came after the post where you said "Currently chain is better. In 7.1.5 the wrists will be better for holy." Which again is 100% wrong, it took another poster before you admitted that you "could be wrong" but you still followed up with "I can't see it being useful outside of mythic+"

Maybe spend less time posting and more time listning to people who know what they are talking about. While I dont expect you to believe me, you could always ask other people with a clue on what they think because no one respected thinks that those bracers are good, not now and not in 7.1.5.

[Taeldorian]

Did the part where it goes from 35% to 70% completely go over your head? We are talking a 6% healing increase on a fight where there is constant damage and possibly more on fights with burst windows.

The bracers on the other hand is a net healing and hpm loss on everyone except for the tanks compared to FoL. In other words you only cast freedom when otherwise you would have used lotm and therefore it is a terrible legendary.

Your statement of "I could be wrong" came after the post where you said "Currently chain is better. In 7.1.5 the wrists will be better for holy." Which again is 100% wrong, it took another poster before you admitted that you "could be wrong" but you still followed up with "I can't see it being useful outside of mythic+"

Maybe spend less time posting and more time listning to people who know what they are talking about. While I dont expect you to believe me, you could always ask other people with a clue on what they think because no one respected thinks that those bracers are good, not now and not in 7.1.5.

Of course that post came after. Do you have no idea what a discussion is? That's what these forums are for, discussions. I come here to get information from people who do know what they're talking about (not you). The person I was talking to was discussing how the belt may be better than a few other legendaries.

I think you need to spend less time being aggressive on the internet and more time socializing because it seems you have no idea how to discuss things, you only like arguing and calling people out even though it has nothing to do with really anything.

Yeah, me saying "I could be wrong" came after my first post. That's how discussions work. He stated something that I agreed with because it made sense, so I said I could be wrong. I'm not sure what's hard to understand about this.

You could have added to the discussion in a good way, giving a reason why the belt is good in 7.1.5 just like the poster before you without being a dick. Unlike you I don't come here and boast about my ever growing knowledge for the class. I come here to learn shit from people that know what they're doing and to discuss things with other posters. A majority of my posts are followed up with "I'm not sure" or "I could be wrong" because I never state anything I say as fact unless I know it's 100% factual. That's exactly what I did here's but you preferred to cherry pick a post out of the 3 or 4 where I said "I don't know" or "I could be wrong".

TLDR: Do you have anything better to do than be an asshat on the internet? Just curious. There's plenty of ways you could've told me the belt was better and that my opinion was wrong without being a dick considering I'm not an ignorant shit who disregards everything others say hence the conversation I was having before this one. No reason to get aggressive when people are just talking. Go out and socialize, it'll help you learn that.

[Deleted]

Of course that post came after. Do you have no idea what a discussion is? That's what these forums are for, discussions. I come here to get information from people who do know what they're talking about (not you). The person I was talking to was discussing how the belt may be better than a few other legendaries.

I do know what a discussion is and the following is certainly not a discussion:

Currently chain is better. In 7.1.5 the wrists will be better for holy.

This was your first post on the subject until someone corrected you. You posted wrong information as a statement not as a form of discussion, you were trying to help him but because you had bad information you instead hurt him. My hostility towards you comes from posts of yours in the past too, this is not a one time thing.

Step 1: You post something that is blatantly wrong.
Step 2: Someone with a clue corrects you.
Step 3: You keep arguing that they are wrong and that they are mean.

[Taeldorian]

I do know what a discussion is and the following is certainly not a discussion:


This was your first post on the subject until someone corrected you. You posted wrong information as a statement not as a form of discussion, you were trying to help him but because you had bad information you instead hurt him. My hostility towards you comes from posts of yours in the past too, this is not a one time thing.

Step 1: You post something that is blatantly wrong.
Step 2: Someone with a clue corrects you.
Step 3: You keep arguing that they are wrong and that they are mean.

That's interesting considering I said I was wrong after. The person who knew what he was talking about corrected me and I stated I was most likely wrong. He actually corrected me in a normal way though, without being an over aggressive twat.

Just gonna stop responding here because this'll go on forever and it's wasting space on the thread. Put me on ignore if you don't want to see my future posts.

[CptEgo]

Hey guys, I got a question. I'm a new Paladin and I'm wondering, to which degree am I supposed to deal damage along with healing when I'm in groups? I ask because I'm definately getting a combat-healer vibe when playing my Paladin

[MCC]

Hey guys, I got a question. I'm a new Paladin and I'm wondering, to which degree am I supposed to deal damage along with healing when I'm in groups? I ask because I'm definately getting a combat-healer vibe when playing my Paladin

You are a healer. Generally, keeping everybody alive takes priority over dealing damage. If you really have nothing to do as a healer, by all means, do some damage.

[Amantino]

It's not like we are bad right now, we are ok but definitely not one of the stronger healers.

Are we even playing the same class? Theres a reason why everyone brings a Holy Paladin, and that's not because we are 'just ok'. Paladins are weak in large heroic groups, but...who cares. In a real raid we are top tier healer, together with Druid and Shaman.

I can't see any reason why our wings would need to be stronger. The tier set bonus adds more crit, almost every single ability crits during wings and heals people to full. It's just going to lead to overhealing. Too much to be beneficial in raids imo.
Currently, chain is useful for holy because it's a 15% max health heal on a 25s CD. Thats what the wrists turn into. The belt in 7.1.5 won't be that useful in raids.

In all honesty I'm waiting to hear a legit reason how the belt will be good. I just can't see anything that empowers our wings by adding more healing to them useful as wings are already crazy powerful.

Currently chain is better. In 7.1.5 the wrists will be better for holy.

It's a significant healing increase on a decent uptime, how is it not good? Sure, it will cause Holy Shocks to do more overhealing, but what about JoL, LoD, Prism, Mercy? Not every ability from a Paladin tops a person with one use. Wings will go from being a good healing cooldown, to being an amazing healing cooldown. Paladin will again be able to do things like the first 30 seconds of Butcher back in Highmaul, atleast to some extent.

7.1.5 bracers will be a lot weaker than what the current belt is, because of stat budget. The new bracers will be no more than a second tier legendary, while the new belt will be a first tier legendary. So even in a worst case scenario, and 7.1.5 belt ends up being behind ring/shoulder/cloak (Cloak looks good, don't think trinket will be), it will still be a very good legendary. I can see it being bis for fights that line up well with wings. Even comparing it with bracers is preposterous.


If you want people to stop "shitposting" in reply to you, stop making such stupid statements in the first place.

[Taeldorian]

Are we even playing the same class? Theres a reason why everyone brings a Holy Paladin, and that's not because we are 'just ok'. Paladins are weak in large heroic groups, but...who cares. In a real raid we are top tier healer, together with Druid and Shaman.



It's a significant healing increase on a decent uptime, how is it not good? Sure, it will cause Holy Shocks to do more overhealing, but what about JoL, LoD, Prism, Mercy? Not every ability from a Paladin tops a person with one use. Wings will go from being a good healing cooldown, to being an amazing healing cooldown. Paladin will again be able to do things like the first 30 seconds of Butcher back in Highmaul, atleast to some extent.

7.1.5 bracers will be a lot weaker than what the current belt is, because of stat budget. The new bracers will be no more than a second tier legendary, while the new belt will be a first tier legendary. So even in a worst case scenario, and 7.1.5 belt ends up being behind ring/shoulder/cloak (Cloak looks good, don't think trinket will be), it will still be a very good legendary. I can see it being bis for fights that line up well with wings. Even comparing it with bracers is preposterous.


If you want people to stop "shitposting" in reply to you, stop making such stupid statements in the first place.

I absolutely love how you cut out the part where I said "maybe I'm wrong. I dunno". Hilarious. The things people will do to try and make themselves look correct blows my mind. You took the time to delete that part because it makes your entire post not make sense.

I know nitpicking certain posts makes you feel better, but it doesn't work that way. When someone says they could be wrong, the statement they made is no longer a statement.

For future reference, cutting out a part of a post that completely goes against what you said in your post is probably the dumbest thing you can do. I said straight up I could be wrong right after my original post, but of course you cut that part out. Why wouldn't you when all you're focused on is trying to call someone stupid lol.

- - - Updated - - -

I can't see any reason why our wings would need to be stronger. The tier set bonus adds more crit, almost every single ability crits during wings and heals people to full. It's just going to lead to overhealing. Too much to be beneficial in raids imo. In mythic+ it'll be crazy good for dpsing as holy though and getting through heavy burst damage.

Currently, chain is useful for holy because it's a 15% max health heal on a 25s CD. Thats what the wrists turn into. The belt in 7.1.5 won't be that useful in raids.

Maybe I'm wrong. I dunno. So far though with the tier set bonus and the amount of crit we have with wings up (and even without wings up) I can't see it being useful outside of mythic+.

In all honesty I'm waiting to hear a legit reason how the belt will be good. I just can't see anything that empowers our wings by adding more healing to them useful as wings are already crazy powerful.

See that bolded part? That right there means I said I don't really know what I'm talking about but in my opinion it feels like it won't be strong. That discredits my previous statement. It came one post after what I originally said as well.

Also, I know reading and comprehending doesn't come easy here, but "I just can't see" means I'm not treating my post as a fact, but as an opinion.

Tired of arguing about this. I said I was wrong one post after I stated the belt was worse. Period. End of story. There's no reason for you to be here telling me I'm an idiot and what I said was wrong when I've already said that myself. Stop quoting me and wasting space on this thread, people have questions and they'll be drowned out by your incessant need to tell people they're stupid even after they've said they're wrong.

[Alluka]

850 crit stat stick with socket vs 880 vial? I know stick is more hps but vial helps with overhealing (38k int without stat stick).

[Amantino]

"I just can't see" means I'm not treating my post as a fact, but as an opinion.

And people disagreed with your opinion. Saying you might be wrong doesn't make you immune to disagreement, or discredit your statement. An opinion can always be wrong regardless if you specify that or not, because opinions are just opinions. But if this forum had a rule about not spreading dumb opinions, you'd be out.

See that bolded part? That right there means I said I don't really know what I'm talking about (...)

It was obvious from your first post that you don't really know what you're talking about.

I gave you a legit reason why the belt will be good, like you asked for. But when people disagree with you, they are shitposting :^)

Not sure who should talk about reading comprehension here. Whos the one again that fails to understand what legendaries does, thus spreading completly false information?

[Taeldorian]

And people disagreed with your opinion. Saying you might be wrong doesn't make you immune to disagreement, or discredit your statement. An opinion can always be wrong regardless if you specify that or not, because opinions are just opinions. But if this forum had a rule about not spreading dumb opinions, you'd be out.
It was obvious from your first post that you don't really know what you're talking about.

I gave you a legit reason why the belt will be good, like you asked for. But when people disagree with you, they are shitposting :^)

Not sure who should talk about reading comprehension here. Whos the one again that fails to understand what legendaries does, thus spreading completly false information?

You do realize I'm not arguing about the belt anymore right? I never said you were wrong or right. Nor did I say I disagree with you. Like, this just shows how you can't comprehend a single topic. I haven't mentioned the belt or you being wrong at all in any of my recent posts. I'm arguing with you and that other person because even after I stated I was wrong, you still felt the need to call me stupid. There's absolutely no point of that aside from trying to make yourself feel better.

He and you were shitposting because you can't stop yourself from calling other people stupid. It's obvious mate. I've said I was wrong one post after my "misinformation" yet you continue to point out I was wrong, even though I already corrected myself? Really? Get over yourself bud.

It's funny how you can say that though because the person who corrected me and disagreed with me first did so and I agreed. No argument or anything, I said I was wrong. Go back and read, I know that's hard for you but trust me, go back and read one post after my first one and you'll see that I said I could be wrong after the person disagreed with me. Never called it shitposting either. That right there shows your just making shit up

Also, it's nice how you call it misinformation but that's only because you have trouble reading. One post down from that I corrected myself and said I was wrong, so anyone with a brain can see that I said my info was wrong.

But, I'm not interested in talking to people who try this hard to make themselves look better by calling other people stupid. I corrected myself literally one post after my first one yet you continue to call me wrong even though I already stated I was. What's the point of that? To make yourself look good? To feel better about yourself? Whatever the case is, gonna put you on ignore. Not because you "disagree" with me (even though I said I was wrong, so we're on the same page about the belt) but because you can't stop yourself from calling people stupid. Maybe try correcting people without calling them stupid? Oh, and if someone corrects themselves, there's absolutely no reason for you to do it again.

Stop filling up the thread with useless BS. If you wanna continue the conversation, PM me. People have questions here and again, you're need to call me wrong and stupid even though I already did that myself is drowning out those questions. Stop responding here and PM me if you wanna continue.

[Nedralixx]

Are you done with your drama yet? This is an ongoing conversation, there's one guy posting something and everyone else has every right to agree/disagree. I cannot understand this "burn the witch" mentality. If you had exchanged insults in the past I don't fuckin care. Start sharing something constructive for the thread.

[Genzen Han]

850 crit stat stick with socket vs 880 vial? I know stick is more hps but vial helps with overhealing (38k int without stat stick).

I'd go stat-stick. It's just too useful to have reliable, powerful heals compared to whatever 'extra' effects the other trinkets might have. Especially since you have a socket in there.

[magiee]

so i just got the belt on live should i be really happy about the 70% healin cd im about to get when 7.1.5 comes out

[TeleriaX]

I'd go stat-stick. It's just too useful to have reliable, powerful heals compared to whatever 'extra' effects the other trinkets might have. Especially since you have a socket in there.

You mean that reliable powerful heal that is based on 2-3% more intellect in total (at best) against a trinket that does 6-7% of your total heal?...

Vial is the clear winner, a 30 itemlevel lower stat stick trinket doesnt even get close.