Resto 7.1.5 NERF

[Guran]

All the people saying we're awesome because we have the best mastery...lul:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...=80&metric=hps
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...=80&metric=hps

I don't get all the love for healer balance. And don't get me started on mythic pluses...where druids are king by a mile.

I can do statistics me!
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...ps&timespan=60
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...&timespan=1000
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...ps&timespan=60

Shaman excel on progress because of Mastery. In fact, any HPS drop or nerf in other classes has shown to be a Shaman HPS boost. The only way to rank on farm fights as shaman nowadays is simple: tell another healer to go DPS. But frankly, who cares? If it's on farm, you could be running in Haste/Versatility and still kill it.
Yes, overall Resto Druids are top, but that's mostly because they have HoTs that top everyone off. You know what HoTs don't do? heal a tank from null to full in 3s, that's what you bring the Shaman for. I'll let our Druid have his meter spot rejuv'ing the entire raid that's at 85-90% HP, because it's pointless sniping it, I'm fighting a boss, not my guild mates!

And M+ really? Shams are probably the best healers there because of Purge/interupt/stun & lust. But that doesn't show on your healing meters, so it doesn't count, right?

[Deleted]

I can do statistics me!
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...ic=hps×pan=60
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...=hps×pan=1000
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...ic=hps×pan=60

Shaman excel on progress because of Mastery. In fact, any HPS drop or nerf in other classes has shown to be a Shaman HPS boost. The only way to rank on farm fights as shaman nowadays is simple: tell another healer to go DPS. But frankly, who cares? If it's on farm, you could be running in Haste/Versatility and still kill it.
Yes, overall Resto Druids are top, but that's mostly because they have HoTs that top everyone off. You know what HoTs don't do? heal a tank from null to full in 3s, that's what you bring the Shaman for. I'll let our Druid have his meter spot rejuv'ing the entire raid that's at 85-90% HP, because it's pointless sniping it, I'm fighting a boss, not my guild mates!

And M+ really? Shams are probably the best healers there because of Purge/interupt/stun & lust. But that doesn't show on your healing meters, so it doesn't count, right?

None of these graphs support your argument, Druids are king on M+. We are pretty close second tied with Holy Paladins I reckon. The only way to rank for any healer is to underheal fights. Also, Legion HoTs can pretty easily heal a tank from null to full in 3s, you bring shaman for SLT and CD rotations.

[Guran]

Graphs are average, not specific situations. Majority of guilds may prefer to keep number of healers constant when going on farm because they know it works. (and CDs)
Graphs clearly show average Shaman HPS gains boost when other healers fall down.
Underhealing fights does more for Shamans due to how Mastery works.
Guarm history also shows Druids are declining, because after initial bursts of healing, there is less left over to heal up with hots as other healers get more gear.
Rejuv ticks for ~30k per 3s, Lifebloom ~12k per second, even with Germination, that's ~100K over 3 seconds, not 1mil.

You have still to provide any arguments as to why "Druids are king on M+"

PS: You forgot Ancestral Protection Totem

[ItsTiddles]

You have still to provide any arguments as to why "Druids are king on M+"

ST Tank CD on a short cd, stealth, battle rez (without having to predict it), taunt, top half of dps for healers, extremely high mobility, several cc options.

Don't get me wrong, I love my shaman in m+, but druids just are superior for that style of content. You can tell by the sheer amount of parses that include resto druids vs any other healer. In the last 2 weeks, rduids have been logged in more than double the amount of +15s than hpals (who are second).

[Deleted]

http:/ /darklegacycomics.com/558

Sorry, can't post links. Edit it, well worth the effort

This really sums up everything in this thread for me. Resto Shamans are great at the moment, I rerolled to one just because of how great they are. Just because you can't see their strength on a meter doesnt mean its not there.
Theres such a range of cooldowns in your toolkit that so many other healers are lacking, with a great mix of utility to both tanks, the raid and yourself in both raids and dungeons and best of all, genuine talent choices to be made. So many other specs have like 1 or 2 talents they swap out over the whole tree but I change talents nearly every fight. Its so well designed. Even the artifact traits are fun and rewarding.

Yes a 5% CH nerf is baffling when our throughput isn't overperforming. Yes resto druids are slightly overtuned. No resto shamans are not bad and nor do they struggle or underperform significantly in any context that I have yet experienced. I'm looking forward to the buff to wellspring too. Its a fun spell that doesnt see much play and I'm glad that will change.

The only thing that chart that everyone is throwing round shows is that Monks need a small buff.
I'd put holy priests much lower in ranking due to lack of utility.

[mcbubble]

ST Tank CD on a short cd, stealth, battle rez (without having to predict it), taunt, top half of dps for healers, extremely high mobility, several cc options.

Don't get me wrong, I love my shaman in m+, but druids just are superior for that style of content. You can tell by the sheer amount of parses that include resto druids vs any other healer. In the last 2 weeks, rduids have been logged in more than double the amount of +15s than hpals (who are second).

You mean like this:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...ps&keystone=15
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...ps&keystone=12

But...but...we're great!

[ItsTiddles]

You mean like this:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...ps&keystone=15
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...ps&keystone=12

But...but...we're great!

I don't even know what point you're trying to make in response to mine

[mcbubble]

I don't even know what point you're trying to make in response to mine

Trying to show the sheer number of resto druids that complete a +12 through +15.

[Guran]

ST Tank CD on a short cd, stealth, battle rez (without having to predict it), taunt, top half of dps for healers, extremely high mobility, several cc options.

Don't get me wrong, I love my shaman in m+, but druids just are superior for that style of content. You can tell by the sheer amount of parses that include resto druids vs any other healer. In the last 2 weeks, rduids have been logged in more than double the amount of +15s than hpals (who are second).

I'm gonna be difficult here and contest the stealth (not useful if DPS can't stealth as well), taunt (either shit already has hit the proverbial fan or you're wasting as many GCDs preventing damage as you could healing it imho) and CC (cyclone, roots & talented typhoon are not much compared to Hex & Cap Totem). I would even argue that Mythic+ is THE place for Earthen Shield Totem to shine as tank CD, because on massive packs, the 2.5mil absorb is usually consumed. All in all, I would have put them on equal footing except ... mobility. That indeed is a boon they have over other healers (all other healers in fact) and I am inclined to say that this may indeed be the reason they do well in M+ due to the nature of the challenge (time).

Trying to show the sheer number of resto druids that log a +12 through +15.

Fixt. Also, Shaman DPS specs are logged far more than Druid, about the same ratio as Resto Druid vs Shaman, with a noticable DPS boost for Shaman on higher ranks as well. Both Shaman specs are above Balance in both # of logs and average value in +15. Considering both bring a very powerful tool to Mythics (lust & brez), this could just as well seem to indicate that a Resto Druid & DPS Sham combo is more favoured than the other way around. Goes to show that you should be careful as to how you interpret data/statistics.

Fine, I'll go find you actual relevant data:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...gregate=amount
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...gregate=amount
Time required to complete said M+ dungeons. And hey look, we're equal up to M+12 (and even beating them slightly on 13 & 14) with 15 recently becoming a gap after getting darn close to eachother. So in the end, I don't think we're MASSIVELY behind as if Druids are the gods of healing in M+. The biggest complaint here should actually be getting Mistweaver into the rest of the pack first.

And to actually get back on topic: The CH nerf doesn't really do much here, as it has its limited used in Mythic dungeons, due to tons of either movement or group being too spread out.

[woopytywoop]

taunt is actually very nice when it's necrotic to help your tank reset his stacks on big mobs immune to snares/stuns. taunt and dash can be quite a life safer.

Bit off topic, but I noticed my ascendance range healing is reduced but haven't found anything about it, it only heals targets less than 20y away from me. Iirc it used to be 40y. Is this a bug or is this intended?

AG still heals up to 40y away.

[Deleted]

Holy fuck what a bunch of crying that's going on here. Hahaha, do you REALLY think the sky is falling because Chain Heal is getting nerfed by 5 %??? I'm just lost for words, hahahaahha. Resto shamans are THE most useful healer in the game at the moment, anyone denying this is just clueless. What matters most, progression or farm? Yes, recent parses show resto shamans below other healers - but hello, are you new to resto? I'll give you a hint: resto's mastery breaks progression fights and makes resto shaman irreplaceable. Oh well, cry about the fact that you can't win healing meters during farm. Jesus fucking christ the stuff people can complain and cry about.

this.
always wondering who cares about heal meters? beeing a good healer is not about topping meters its about beeing efficient and this is where restos shine.
im playing a resto with 7/7m down and all i can say nothing beats the efficiency a resto shaman has, comparing with other healers my overheal is always the least, while beeing #1 or #2 on meters

shamans:

never go oom
dont need innervate
best interrupt ingame
strong stun
strong def cd
heal while moving
best triage healing ingame
strong heal cds (stoneskin totem, healing tide, spirit link, ascendance, cloudburst, guidiance)

[Deleted]

this.
always wondering who cares about heal meters? beeing a good healer is not about topping meters its about beeing efficient and this is where restos shine.
im playing a resto with 7/7m down and all i can say nothing beats the efficiency a resto shaman has, comparing with other healers my overheal is always the least, while beeing #1 or #2 on meters

shamans:

never go oom
dont need innervate
best interrupt ingame
strong stun
strong def cd
heal while moving
best triage healing ingame
strong heal cds (stoneskin totem, healing tide, spirit link, ascendance, cloudburst, guidiance)

god help your guild mate

[Deleted]

Holy fuck what a bunch of crying that's going on here. Hahaha, do you REALLY think the sky is falling because Chain Heal is getting nerfed by 5 %??? I'm just lost for words, hahahaahha. Resto shamans are THE most useful healer in the game at the moment, anyone denying this is just clueless. What matters most, progression or farm? Yes, recent parses show resto shamans below other healers - but hello, are you new to resto? I'll give you a hint: resto's mastery breaks progression fights and makes resto shaman irreplaceable. Oh well, cry about the fact that you can't win healing meters during farm. Jesus fucking christ the stuff people can complain and cry about.

Do you have any fucking idea how useless or mastery is most of the time in a raid with 3 or 4 other healers? Who the fuck is gonna be at low HP for long? Our mastery itself is shit, it relies on people being low, which basically means you, and blizzard, want us shamans to just sit around and wait for people to almost die, in order to gain even the slighest fucking HINT of a benefit from the stat we're 'supposed to stack' on the offchance that it might fucking proc for us? We're the only healers with a shitty baseline mechanic that enforces the idea of letting people drop low to really be 'effective'.

Actually play the fucking class or get the fuck out of this thread with your "Oh look people are whining" - And, to touch on another one of your retarded points that we're good on progression - Wow, we get to look good when we wipe. AMAZING! When people are already dying (on low HP) and the raidleader calls for a wipe, we can pad our fucking numbers by, for once, getting the full benefit of our 'glorious and broken' mastery. MEANWHILE, we're just fucking wasting the raids time because we should just all be dying faster so we can get in another pull. You logic is fucking flawed.

Our mastery should be changed. Its about as useless as the paladin one, except they can actually consistently get the benefit from that shit simply by walking closer to their healing targets. Meanwhile we have to gamble with the raid's health and success if we want to see any sort of throughput from our mastery.

[Deleted]

Do you have any fucking idea how useless or mastery is most of the time in a raid with 3 or 4 other healers? Who the fuck is gonna be at low HP for long? Our mastery itself is shit, it relies on people being low, which basically means you, and blizzard, want us shamans to just sit around and wait for people to almost die, in order to gain even the slighest fucking HINT of a benefit from the stat we're 'supposed to stack' on the offchance that it might fucking proc for us? We're the only healers with a shitty baseline mechanic that enforces the idea of letting people drop low to really be 'effective'.

Actually play the fucking class or get the fuck out of this thread with your "Oh look people are whining" - And, to touch on another one of your retarded points that we're good on progression - Wow, we get to look good when we wipe. AMAZING! When people are already dying (on low HP) and the raidleader calls for a wipe, we can pad our fucking numbers by, for once, getting the full benefit of our 'glorious and broken' mastery. MEANWHILE, we're just fucking wasting the raids time because we should just all be dying faster so we can get in another pull. You logic is fucking flawed.

Our mastery should be changed. Its about as useless as the paladin one, except they can actually consistently get the benefit from that shit simply by walking closer to their healing targets. Meanwhile we have to gamble with the raid's health and success if we want to see any sort of throughput from our mastery.

Oh god, reminds me why I don't check class discussion forums too often

What a bunch of senseless salty rage you wrote there, people like you shouldn't be invited in any group content

[mcbubble]

Oh god, reminds me why I don't check class discussion forums too often

What a bunch of senseless salty rage you wrote there, people like you shouldn't be invited in any group content

I agree it's a bit ragey, but he brings up good points. Maybe it will change in Nighthold, but in TEM, the raid isn't staying low for long persiods of time (and usually not while stacked). I think this is a byproduct of the other healers throughpout being so strong, where the raid goes from low to high health fairly quickly, and thus we don't benefit from our mastery as much as we have in the past.

[Deleted]

god help your guild mate

did i offend you? whats your problem? explain yourself mr. cruise


so im just wondering why you guys keep saying that ppl dont drop low on en mythic, what about:

cenarius 4 heal tactic, healing the dps is just so good as shaman
ursoc with 3 heal shaman was good too on early kills (outgeared)
illgynoth shaman still shine with their spirit link at 6-8 debuff count
xavius constant aoe heal on meteors

compared with the mana costs, no healer can heal better
if you look at the heal/overheal ratio shaman is always #1 at the moment
the main reason other healers are #1 on the meter is because a lot of healer tend to top the raid at all times (tons of overheal),
while shamans dont even start healing at 70-100% targets due to their mastery

what i actually like the most is the versatility a shaman has in his talent tree
you spec okish single target heal (not even close to pala but hey)
you can spec burst aoe heal
you can spec constant aoe heal

[Stabatya]

compared with the mana costs, no healer can heal better
if you look at the heal/overheal ratio shaman is always #1 at the moment
the main reason other healers are #1 on the meter is because a lot of healer tend to top the raid at all times (tons of overheal),
while shamans dont even start healing at 70-100% targets due to their mastery

You do realise that any decent meter doesnt count overheal right? Those other healers arent beating you cause they are overhealing, they are beating you because they are pushing out more effective healing. Yeah, we have nice "oh sh!t" buttons, but thats about it. Started off this xpac doing very well in healing, then we started clearing mythic and suddenly other healers started to catch up and slowely overtake... The resto druid in my raid is now close to doubling my healing on some encounters (tranq legendary is overpowered but hey, good for him). Its so depressing that ive decided to step down from raiding and reroll.

You have a couple of ways to compete in effective healing as a rsham. You can take torrent/echo and snipe heals with riptide, you can totally ignore your raids cd rotation and try double dip your cds (healing tide and AG) or you can ask your resto druid to go boomy.

[captiva]

You do realise that any decent meter doesnt count overheal right? Those other healers arent beating you cause they are overhealing, they are beating you because they are pushing out more effective healing. Yeah, we have nice "oh sh!t" buttons, but thats about it. Started off this xpac doing very well in healing, then we started clearing mythic and suddenly other healers started to catch up and slowely overtake... The resto druid in my raid is now close to doubling my healing on some encounters (tranq legendary is overpowered but hey, good for him). Its so depressing that ive decided to step down from raiding and reroll.

You have a couple of ways to compete in effective healing as a rsham. You can take torrent/echo and snipe heals with riptide, you can totally ignore your raids cd rotation and try double dip your cds (healing tide and AG) or you can ask your resto druid to go boomy.

This^ I have since went enhance due to this. When we hit progression again I might switch back but as of right now Rshaman is useless throughput wise and we have got nothing but nerfs since 7.0 dropped. That's why I am annoyed.

[Guran]

<snip> Yeah, we have nice "oh sh!t" buttons, but thats about it. </snip>

Thing is though, when it's mostly needed, EVERY button is an oh shit button for shamans, that's how the mastery works. During low phases, our RDruid & HPala are pushing out the same HPS as when someone suddenly drops some sort of bomb in the raid, but I suddenly spike anywhere from 20-50% increased due to Mastery. Back in my previous guild we had this GM who was always complaining about my HPS after each fight, but in the end, we killed more stuff by letting the druid go DPS simply because my healing was there when it mattered, not because I snipe from everyone else. But meh, numbers are all that matter on forums I guess.

[Vraull]

Do you have any fucking idea how useless or mastery is most of the time in a raid with 3 or 4 other healers? Who the fuck is gonna be at low HP for long? Our mastery itself is shit, it relies on people being low, which basically means you, and blizzard, want us shamans to just sit around and wait for people to almost die, in order to gain even the slighest fucking HINT of a benefit from the stat we're 'supposed to stack' on the offchance that it might fucking proc for us? We're the only healers with a shitty baseline mechanic that enforces the idea of letting people drop low to really be 'effective'.

Actually play the fucking class or get the fuck out of this thread with your "Oh look people are whining" - And, to touch on another one of your retarded points that we're good on progression - Wow, we get to look good when we wipe. AMAZING! When people are already dying (on low HP) and the raidleader calls for a wipe, we can pad our fucking numbers by, for once, getting the full benefit of our 'glorious and broken' mastery. MEANWHILE, we're just fucking wasting the raids time because we should just all be dying faster so we can get in another pull. You logic is fucking flawed.

Our mastery should be changed. Its about as useless as the paladin one, except they can actually consistently get the benefit from that shit simply by walking closer to their healing targets. Meanwhile we have to gamble with the raid's health and success if we want to see any sort of throughput from our mastery.

Do you play resto on prog? Our mastery is hands down the best for learning fights, because it makes up for mistakes, which allows you to see further in the fight.....which in turn lets you see even further, until you KILL THE BOSS. who gives a shit if you're not #1, you're job is to save people from dying, which is exactly what our mastery does if you play properly. preemptive Chain heals and HR so you are getting the heals when they are lower hp. coordinate cds with other healers so we get the benefit of our mastery and they can conserve their cds/mana for later. Proper Triage healing.

all of the fights in M TOV are great for our mastery. You just have to be proactive, as does every other healer.