People Switching/Rerolling from Demon Hunter

[Crookids]

I main a Rogue. Have so since vanilla/BC but the lack of changes in which I find fun has started to frustrate me. DOT up-time, the continued emphases on poison damage and auto-attack instead of more energy management etc.

This has brought me to a place of enjoying raiding with my Rogue but wanting to start working towards a new main. Enter the Demon Hunter.

I have had a ton of fun in Vengeance and I liked Havoc the little I played. I know Vengeance isn't viable in end-game but I likely won't take any raids outside of LFR and pugs. But I am hearing a lot of people that mained DH since the expansion launch are now moving away from the class.

Can someone fill me in as to why so many Havoc DHs seem to want to roll a different class? Is it the rotation and emphases on auto-attack talent choices? I guess this seems to be more of a high-end raiding player's decision as most that do not raid to parse like that take the talents that are most fun. However, if I am going to spend a ton of time catching up another toon -- I would like to be caught up with the issues.

[Deleted]

But I am hearing a lot of people that mained DH since the expansion launch are now moving away from the class.

Well tbh, according to Blizzard numbers (they were published during last Blizzcon), around 25% of the player base got a demon hunter to 110, you can't expect the rep to stay so high.

About the reasons though, it probably have something to do with the mandatory momentum play style, or the pre-pull mastery gear shenanigans if you want to parse. Not sure it's the same for everyone, but that's what refrain me from playing the class.

[Wallmaker Yahzarah]

LOL Youtube/streamer makes a video... lets now think about it on the forums.

[pay928]

I don't dps a lot but since you mentioned energy management, I'll mention there are a lot of posts about resource generation being shit without the legendary ring and class feeling much smoother after the ring. Someone that mains havoc might be able to elaborate on the resource issues better.

The Auto attack talent is Demon's blade. It's the difference between spamming mutilate for CPs or CPs proc'ing from auto attacks. Less control over it, but you keep using your finishers instead of needing to use a global(s) on generating resource. Some hate it, some love it or don't care/see a difference.

[wrathblade]

i dropt my feral druid and made a DH.
Won't be going back any time soon.
The momentum play style is something i prefer over the stand still press 1-1-2 repeat.

[Crookids]

LOL Youtube/streamer makes a video... lets now think about it on the forums.

I am not even joking when I say I have no idea what you're talking about.

I spoke to several DHs in-game and 2 out of the 3 I spoke to said they are disappointed with the class. I spoke to several other non-DH high-end raiders and they told me their guildies that are DHs are moving away from the class mentioning this because I was talking about how much I enjoyed playing the tank spec and was thinking about going Havoc as a main for raiding.

Since I switched to Horde, people are much more friendly and open to conversing about their class and what's going on at a high level. I loved Alliance and I am not making this a faction discussion -- but not everyone get's their information solely from streamers/YouTubers. I don't even watch WoW streams as I raided with a few personally and they are incredibly overrated (some of them).

I don't understand why people can't have a discussion without acting socially awkward, fallaciously accusing people through assumptive nonsense instead of contributing to the discussion as an intellectual.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't dps a lot but since you mentioned energy management, I'll mention there are a lot of posts about resource generation being shit without the legendary ring and class feeling much smoother after the ring. Someone that mains havoc might be able to elaborate on the resource issues better.

The Auto attack talent is Demon's blade. It's the difference between spamming mutilate for CPs or CPs proc'ing from auto attacks. Less control over it, but you keep using your finishers instead of needing to use a global(s) on generating resource. Some hate it, some love it or don't care/see a difference.

Hmm, interesting. I was talking about my Rogue when I mentioned that but it's discouraging that DHs face a similar conundrum. I really can't stand being energy starved. Perhaps I should give WW a serious look.

[burzian]

For context: I recently switched from Warlock to DH (or rather, I will when 7.1.5 hits and I can dump a truckload of artifact knowledge on him). I think I'm... 858 right now? With Sephuz and no other legendary. Definitely not super geared and not a class expert at all.

I really don't know if I could play any other melee after playing DH (I chose to focus on the DH instead of my 873 WW monk). The momentum playstyle is really fun for me and the mobility is addictive. The only thing I don't like is Demon Blades, the must-have talent that turns our resource builder into a passive. I've gotten used to it for the most part, and there are other talent rows that are much more flexible. 7.1.5 seems to be aiming to reduce must-have talent situations, so it's looking like other playstyles will become more viable then.

Even at my ilvl, I feel pretty relevant in M+ dungeons. The AoE DHs can push out is pretty impressive and again, the playstyle is really fun. For the things you mentioned in your post (LFR, pug raids, I'm assuming some M/M+) I think the class is a great choice and you could play a fun talent configuration even before 7.1.5 hits.

[Deix-EU]

Many DH WERE unsatisfied about the first changes of the patch but as it is always the case, people nowadays are not patient and claim the (non) evidence whenever they can. Some main DH drawbacks are fixed in, 7.1.5, it's actually quite nice when the time comes. It wasn't before the newest patch changes.

[Dareous]

I have had a ton of fun in Vengeance and I liked Havoc the little I played. I know Vengeance isn't viable in end-game but I likely won't take any raids outside of LFR and pugs. But I am hearing a lot of people that mained DH since the expansion launch are now moving away from the class.

All tanks are viable end game. I main Vengeance and doing normal/heroic raids just fine.

People are probably moving away from Havoc due to how painful the momentum build is to maintain, a lot of work for mediocre payback. People also like to constantly swap and play the FoTM. The new changes coming in 7.1.5 for Havoc look pretty good though so we may see some people coming back into the fold.

[enchiridion]

I main a Rogue. Have so since vanilla/BC but the lack of changes in which I find fun has started to frustrate me. DOT up-time, the continued emphases on poison damage and auto-attack instead of more energy management etc.

This has brought me to a place of enjoying raiding with my Rogue but wanting to start working towards a new main. Enter the Demon Hunter.

I have had a ton of fun in Vengeance and I liked Havoc the little I played. I know Vengeance isn't viable in end-game but I likely won't take any raids outside of LFR and pugs. But I am hearing a lot of people that mained DH since the expansion launch are now moving away from the class.

Can someone fill me in as to why so many Havoc DHs seem to want to roll a different class? Is it the rotation and emphases on auto-attack talent choices? I guess this seems to be more of a high-end raiding player's decision as most that do not raid to parse like that take the talents that are most fun. However, if I am going to spend a ton of time catching up another toon -- I would like to be caught up with the issues.

Honestly I think it was because it looked really cool, I main a havoc and didn't like switching to demon blades at first but it grew on me and the discord generally supports that. What keeps me on my dh is that the play just sunk it's teeth into me, I love the playstyle the mobility the themes and I am the most comfortable playing it, when something is SO popular at its onset and that kind of playstyle isn't as enjoyable for everyone you are gonna see a drop-off. Of course you will see some ppl jumping ship with perceived nerds (as the person stands now we got a hefty buff btw) but in general I think it's just not everyone's playstyle prefrence

[netherflame]

I have had a ton of fun in Vengeance and I liked Havoc the little I played. I know Vengeance isn't viable in end-game but I likely won't take any raids outside of LFR and pugs. But I am hearing a lot of people that mained DH since the expansion launch are now moving away from the class.

Just because it isn't the best that doesn't mean it isn't viable, people need to get this out of their heads its honestly the biggest cancer in wow even above gearscore/ilvl. We have a DK that tanks M+ 15s for us an is our swing tank in M Raiding and we clear content just fine.

Can someone fill me in as to why so many Havoc DHs seem to want to roll a different class? Is it the rotation and emphases on auto-attack talent choices? I guess this seems to be more of a high-end raiding player's decision as most that do not raid to parse like that take the talents that are most fun. However, if I am going to spend a ton of time catching up another toon -- I would like to be caught up with the issues.

Honestly its because they are sheep, people see "warriors and pallys are the best" so they immediately think that if they want to complete content they need to play one of those classes which is completely false. A bad tank class would be if they walk up to the mob and a single AA swing kills them, we don't have that case to any degree in this game.

[Soulfròst]

I would suggest giving Havoc a shot if you enjoyed what little you have seen so far. The biggest thing about Havoc that has kept my interest in maining it is that it's the first spec that has truly remained exciting through each and every boss pull on progression, and I've done progression raiding on several different classes/specs. Where the others became stale pull after pull, with Havoc, it's slightly different every time.

One pull you might have a lot of fury to work with, another maybe not so much so you might have to manage your fury better on the fly. There's reactive gameplay in the spec (yes, sometimes RNG sucks and you'll have a window with no fury) but regardless of how shitty or not shitty that might feel to you, the fact is that it's not the same boring rotation and sequence every pull. The nature of the Momentum playstyle always reassures me that there's always room to improve, that I can always push the ceiling higher with more refinement.

Add to this that we do amazing in Mythic+ due to extremely strong AOE plus a 5 sec instant cast AOE stun, the awesome mobility, double jump, glide, the awesome visuals, huge badass warglaives... Yeah. It's a really fun class and spec to play. Definitely worth giving it a chance and giving yourself enough time to really learn it.

[Rawbiz]

I have been raiding up until WoD (for many years) in a raid guild as a destro lock. Once they made the major changes to destro + the crappy content in WoD I quit playing. I started again just a day or so before Legion and opted for Havoc DH as my main.

I had some problems getting everything together with raids and dungeons at low ilvl, getting the (somewhat) perfect gear and learning a new and quite difficult style I can say that I am finally where I want to be and I love it to be honest.

I am crushing M+ dungeons and I am in top 3 in EN HC. Currently sitting at 872 ilvl so still got some to improve.

While DH is not for everyone, it can still be a really fun and potent class. I will def not be switching any time soon

[kaelleria]

At low skill level people get upset because they don't really understand momentum and get crushed by skilled players. At higher skill levels DH just inherently do less ST damage than their counterparts. Things like CB snapshotting and Anger of the Half Giants make it a bit better, but not everyone has AoTHG and without that our resource generation is so very random. Random in the fact that DB has a 1/4 chance not to proc and random in the fact that you really need to chain crits in order to do any decent opening burst.

Basically it boils down to the fact that with equivalent gear and equivalent skill a ret paladin or arms warrior have a much easier time of pulling insane numbers rather than praying to RNGeezus.

We don't really do anything in a raid setting exceptionally well over any other class as our supposed niche is better filled by MM hunters and firemages.

[Rawbiz]

At low skill level people get upset because they don't really understand momentum and get crushed by skilled players. At higher skill levels DH just inherently do less ST damage than their counterparts. Things like CB snapshotting and Anger of the Half Giants make it a bit better, but not everyone has AoTHG and without that our resource generation is so very random. Random in the fact that DB has a 1/4 chance not to proc and random in the fact that you really need to chain crits in order to do any decent opening burst.

Basically it boils down to the fact that with equivalent gear and equivalent skill a ret paladin or arms warrior have a much easier time of pulling insane numbers rather than praying to RNGeezus.

We don't really do anything in a raid setting exceptionally well over any other class as our supposed niche is better filled by MM hunters and firemages.

Unless you are a semi-casual raider that is. I can agree with that in Mythic raiding DH might be pretty hard and average. But for HC raiding it is actually quite good. I am constantly in the top 1-2-3 for my opener and I only have Cinidaria, the Symbiote as a legendary so far, not the ring.

[Tojara]

Demon Hunters suffer from a few problems. For one their ST damage isn't that impressive unless they have the ring. The class is built around heavy AoE/Cleave, yet there are basically zero encounters currently where that's important. Finally while you can certainly manage it, you have to pay pretty close attention to your movement to maximize your potential, which at times can put you at odds with encounter design. For instance fel rush can be pretty frustrating on bosses like Odyn or Guarm.

If there were more heavy AoE/cleave encounters DH would be valuable. Simply put though their ST damage needs to be toned upwards, even if it's at the cost of a bit of their strengths.

It's also pretty funny that for the most part all of the DH legendary items are about cleave, and aside from the ring barely impact ST damage at all. Talk about doubling down on strengths.

[kaelleria]

Unless you are a semi-casual raider that is. I can agree with that in Mythic raiding DH might be pretty hard and average. But for HC raiding it is actually quite good. I am constantly in the top 1-2-3 for my opener and I only have Cinidaria, the Symbiote as a legendary so far, not the ring.

YMMV, equivalent gear and skill are pretty key to what I wrote as currently DH are basically below every class other than WW monks in terms of ST dps at the 75th percentile. When you go up to 90th percentile we're behind everyone other than Hunters.

[pay928]

Hmm, interesting. I was talking about my Rogue when I mentioned that but it's discouraging that DHs face a similar conundrum. I really can't stand being energy starved. Perhaps I should give WW a serious look.

You can always just spec out of Demon Blade and you spam your generator. Unlike Rogue that uses Energy to create CPs, Demon's Bite is a no CD spammable resource generator. You'll still be using all of your GCDs this way, it's just that you're spamming a generator. It basically comes down to what you dislike about the energy but it's something you can talent around.

[Racthoh]

i quit mainly because of artifact leveling in general. but there were also issues from beta that were never changed that caused me to ultimately give up on the class as a potential main.

[Deleted]

I have had a ton of fun in Vengeance and I liked Havoc the little I played. I know Vengeance isn't viable in end-game but I likely won't take any raids outside of LFR and pugs. But I am hearing a lot of people that mained DH since the expansion launch are now moving away from the class.

Can someone fill me in as to why so many Havoc DHs seem to want to roll a different class? Is it the rotation and emphases on auto-attack talent choices? I guess this seems to be more of a high-end raiding player's decision as most that do not raid to parse like that take the talents that are most fun. However, if I am going to spend a ton of time catching up another toon -- I would like to be caught up with the issues.

If you don't raid, you can play naythign you want, imo.

For Havoc the reasons could be:
- bottom quarter (at most) performance in raid encounters
- Fury starved if you don't have the right legendary (and even worse performance)
- still bugged Fel Rush ability (that causes disconnects or lets you charge ~50 yards at once) that they apparently don't care to fix
- the reliance on the right 2-3 legendaries will become even worse with 7.1.5 (ring = shoulders > belt >>>>>>> all else)

In essence: we are playing a class that has a tough time competing in raids and is only able to do so if you get the right legendary/ies. And apparently that'll get even worse with 7.1.5. Ah, and our prevelent playstyle (Momentum) gets indirectly nerfed/changed.