Civilian - Military rift and how to fix it?

[Deleted]

There were people who died as a result of the information he released.

sources please

[scaphism]

like some others have said. get some more civilians working alongside the military. I think the problem you list with veterans isnt really ptsd related but workforce related people who have more things in common group together so if you hire a bunch of military they tend to exclude civies. I dont see it the other way around however I work near a large military base I have friends in all walks of the military. I never see vets or active military being excluded from anything.

[primalmatter]

Well if you're determined to not assign basic decency to people you have a stereotype of, then sure, you can think that way.

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And I've seen what they do here. Which is nothing. Which I'm totally fine with.

So you actually go by line of sight to inform your beliefs?

Didn't immigrants kill close to a thousand people this year in the EU alone? Granted I might be mixing some of the 2015 attacks in there as well but you seem to be living in a fantasy were you think everyone is just like you.

[Cts53]

You can start by not venerating them into gods. That's not to say you shouldn't respect them for their choices, but seriously, tone it down.
Talk about the taboo's. Let men show their emotions. Stop making them into emotionless killingmachines, they're people who think and feel. Open up about that and respect it.

Personally I have not seen anybody do this, and the only people saying they are killing machines are from those who hate the military, not those who support it.

Plenty of men show their emotions in the military, but there is a time and place for everything. And typically those events are in private between leadership or maybe a chaplain.

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like some others have said. get some more civilians working alongside the military. I think the problem you list with veterans isnt really ptsd related but workforce related people who have more things in common group together so if you hire a bunch of military they tend to exclude civies. I dont see it the other way around however I work near a large military base I have friends in all walks of the military. I never see vets or active military being excluded from anything.

This is a rather good idea, the only issue I can think of is that typical civilians might not have the clearance to what the military in the area might be doing.

[Garnier Fructis]

So you actually go by line of sight to inform your beliefs?

Didn't immigrants kill close to a thousand people this year in the EU alone? Granted I might be mixing some of the 2015 attacks in there as well but you seem to be living in a fantasy were you think everyone is just like you.

No, I'm living in the 'fantasy' that not everyone is a terrible monster. And what do you even mean 'just like me?' I really really doubt it, but you better not be accusing me of being a terrorist. That shit has happened on this forum before when I defended my Arab/Muslim neighbors and friends.

How many people did non immigrants kill in the EU? I mean, we're perfectly happy playing these 'bigger number' games on certain topics in the U.S.

[TwoNineMarine]

I can't count the amount of times I've been asked if I've killed someone. I either stare at them all weirdly or I'll make up a random number. "Around 85. Might be 90. Idk. Grenades are wonderful things."

That tends to make them uncomfortable lol

OT: I honestly feel it's damn near impossible. One of the main things is that the civilian world is cut throat at best and downright vicious at worst.

The major issue that myself and all my buds went through is the lack of trust in your co workers after you get out. In the military you do get your dick heads. But the vast majority of guys your rank were reliable and would literally die trying to protect you.

When you get into a civilian job no one gives two fucks and will rat you out for bull shit just because they want your shift or something. It's fucking stupid.

So when you do 4+ years around people who you 100% trust with your life and get thrust into a job where you can't even joke about shit without fear of being told on or fired, it's a tough pill to swallow.

That, coupled with PTSD, quickly devolves into joblessness and drinking etc. Quickly followed by worse and worse events. It's terrible.

I wish I knew a fix though.

[Garnier Fructis]

I can't count the amount of times I've been asked if I've killed someone. I either stare at them all weirdly or I'll make up a random number. "Around 85. Might be 90. Idk. Grenades are wonderful things."

I tend to assume 0 by default. Aren't there way too many people in the military for even a majority to have killed someone?

[TwoNineMarine]

I tend to assume 0 by default. Aren't there way too many people in the military for even a majority to have killed someone?

Correct. The vast majority haven't killed anyone let alone been to a combat zone.

But people still ask. When I first got out back in 2009 I was asked damn near once a week it felt like at times. I just think it's amusing. Like how could people have so little tact?

[Garnier Fructis]

Correct. The vast majority haven't killed anyone let alone been to a combat zone.

But people still ask. When I first got out back in 2009 I was asked damn near once a week it felt like at times. I just think it's amusing. Like how could people have so little tact?

Hearing people ask other people that sort of question is really cringe inducing, damn.

[TwoNineMarine]

Hearing people ask other people that sort of question is really cringe inducing, damn.

Oh it is. Especially if they happen to ask someone who has actually killed someone. They don't want to talk about that shit. It immediately either induces incredible sadness or anger. It's shitty city at that point.

[Tijuana]

So this article in itself is rather old, but it is hardly a topic I havent heard about recently. (Please note this is in regards to USA)

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-...524-story.html

Essentially what this is talking about is the increase in the rift between the civilian world and the military world, thus making it more difficult for military members to re-integrate to the civilian world. Granted not everybody has this issue, and some re-integrate with ease, but for others it is a daunting challenge.

Lets look at some of these misconceptions about the military:

"Aren't all members of the military in the army?"
"Oh so your in the military? So that means you saw combat?"
"How many people did you kill?"
"Obviously all members of the military are republican."
"Oh your spouse is deployed? Can he come home for your anniversary?"
"Your in the military? You must make alot of money."
"All members of the military suffer from ptsd."


These are just a few that I have heard over the years from random people, online, and friends of mine.

All these misconceptions (and more) simply add to the over-all rift between military and civilian, essentially alienating service members as another class in society.

Plenty of potential business owners fear hiring veterans due to the belief that they all suffer ptsd, and military spouses, those with the special role of living in both worlds, are less likely to land a job.

Also, with an all volunteer force, most of the population has no history with the military, and therefore has no understanding of it. While military families, families who have had generations of military service, tend to make up a bulk of the current military forces.

How do you think we kind close the rift between the civilian world and military world?

It's mainly Democrats that treat the mitary like shit. Since that party is dying, reduced to a regional party, this issue will be solved soon.

[Cts53]

Do you have any idea how you sound?
As if the military are the chosen people: Better, more motivated and just for a select few. Just right-out superior to the common plebs.

Want to really know how to close the rift? Not sound like that anymore.

Sorry, that is how I tend to type. However I am literally just giving facts about military life, and how it honestly is a "way of life" and a job at the same time and trying to point out the differences that I have noticed.

That is all.

[Cts53]

But that doesn't really change anything.
Especially compared to my profession since I do work in a hospital, at cardiology.
1. Same.
2. Same.
3. Irrelevant.
4. Same.
5. Same.

And you seem to be assuming that people do not listen to their supervisor, don't have urgent stuff, etc.
Especially this line: "in the civilian sector, work ethic tends to be very low. AkA nobody really cares."
Do you think you're going to close any rifts with nonsense like that?
You're not God's gift to mankind.

Except I am not acting like I am, so you can stop implying that already. It's getting a little old.

ALso I believe I made a clear distinction that I was not refering to people who work in hopsitals or police or firefighters. Therefore I was not in refrence to you or your job.

And if that was not a case in other jobs and fields in the civilian sector, why would it be one of the bigger issues that veterans have when reintergrating into the civilian sector? That nobody cares, and you cannot trust anybody like in the military?

That is all, stop taking these as personal attacks because I can assure you, they arent. I am mearly pointing out observations that i and other former/current members of the military see.

[ItachiZaku]

Those aren't mine....those are some I have heard.

Some of those are like... really? Sort of like Nick Frost's Danny asking Simon Pegg's Nicolas Angel Bad Boy cops type questions lol

[Ripster42]

maybe stop using us army as a bullying mercenary force on the middle east and everyone will feel better

Maybe france should take your advice.

[Deleted]

Maybe france should take your advice.

they absolutely should.

we had no business there and the former president (N. sarkozy) is currently facing justice for related reasons.

[starlord]

i think on the one hand, there are a lot of people who join the military at 18 and have little idea of how the civilian world works.
On the other, most people only know about the military from what they see in movies and videogames.
the constant hero worship exacerbates it imo. i think a mandatory civil service/military requirement like other countries have would be helpful. maybe in exchange for free or subsidized college. helps people get "job experience" as well.

[Tijuana]

How do you think we kind close the rift between the civilian world and military world?

The rift is only among Liberals. Conservative civilians support the military.

[starlord]

The rift is only among Liberals. Conservative civilians support the military.

does operation jade helm ring any bells?

[Tijuana]

does operation jade helm ring any bells?

Nope.

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