Legion PVP *LOSES* players, and does that faster than WoD

[Caolela]

Maybe it is a bug or maybe ladders did collapse.

Didn't you know everything is a "bug" now? Poor Blizz (with zillions of dollars and decades of XP) just did another woopsie-doodle is all.

[xZerocidex]

You can't prove it. You might can't argue it, because some fanboi or troll will claim you are paranoid.

But you know Holinka has failed PVP miserably when the following trash gets highly rated:

But... didn't you like that response yourself?

On topic though, PvP in Legion is ass, there may have been moments in previous xpacs where PvP had better incentives that made ppl wanna play.

You had the following...

1. Control over progression of gear.

2. Tools in your toolkit to outplay your opponents, hell these outplay ppl had allowed you to engage in 1v2s and survive.

3. Honor Talents, right now Blizzard struggles to balance the current talent system yet alone 3 talents in the same row. And Honor Talents are abilities we used to have from pruning.

4. Artifact Gating, I felt like Artifacts was just gonna be a mess before Legion launched. Could've been executed better but it wasn't.

Might've been more but to me I know these are some reasons why PvP is horrid right now.

[Thoughtful Trolli]

My big beef with PvP is that right now, in Legion, the Class Order hall keeps giving me a Mission that gives me a Flag to go back to Ashran and win 4 objectives and then defeat the boss.

I've actually done it twice, and the reward is equal in value to winning a bg.

I delete that flag and remove that quest on sight now, but I have to keep doing it in hopes that I'll actually get the other kind of quest that just asks me to win a bg.

[Nize]

My big beef with PvP is that right now, in Legion, the Class Order hall keeps giving me a Mission that gives me a Flag to go back to Ashran and win 4 objectives and then defeat the boss.

I've actually done it twice, and the reward is equal in value to winning a bg.

I delete that flag and remove that quest on sight now, but I have to keep doing it in hopes that I'll actually get the other kind of quest that just asks me to win a bg.

I love how one of the biggest criticisms about WoD PvP was Ashran, so Blizz was like.... let's do it again!

Should've been Tol Barad.

[Tyrannica]

Yeah, but the pve gear is better overall than pvp gear stat-wise, so having the best pvp gear is only useful if you like doing world pvp and the average WoW player doesn't care about world pvp or ratings. That's why I said only the "hardcore" are still doing arena/RBGs. For most you are better off running mythic+ or raids. Far more rewards per time spent, and access to the best gear.

I enjoyed to pursuing rating but I also want weapons and gear as rewards. Why should pve players enjoy the best items that make them better at pve, while pvp get shafted with an "everybody is a winner" template, all set bonuses, enchants, trinket procs disabled...etc...and even with all this "normalization" you still have ridiculously OP classes instead of a well-balanced cast of classes.

yeah i agree, but i was rather pointing to the good old TBC/Wotlk times, when you need for your recent pvp gladiator gear with resilence on the stats, actual a higher rating in arenas to get the head and shoulder parts. If you could not beat the rating you had to go with the last season gladiator gear for honor currency that did not need ratings.

I thought that was a good incentive to play arena more seriously and not just for the point cap, or some cosmetics alone.

Why that was changed, i will never really know?

And yes, its stupid too, to get good pve gear, if you are good at pvp, its actually lacking any logic and makes zero sense, because wpvp is dead on most servers, too and there is really little time to do it as its simply just for fun, while you need to actually work in this game 24/7 to achieve anything of value.(considering twinks anyways)

Or is it just another subtle way to push glads into PvE? A lot of effort for just 0,5% of the player base, i'd say. I think this first season of legion just prooved that, no real pvp gear, will never work in wow, if the goal is a healthy and alive pvp com.

[idonthinksodude]

They goofed big time with the legion pvp changes. There's no mmorpg elements left in the pvp, it's just a 100% normalized, homogenized pile of dung.

[normiegonnanorm]

I don't play pvp because of unrealistic expectations that came with instant gratifications.
How to start doing rated pvp if no one wants to even try you? They can just pvp with their friends/guilds versus other friends/guilds and blame blizzard for fking up pvp that no one plays it anymore except a few known groups (even here people are reporting playing with or versus the same exact groups in pvp).

This one is not on blizzard. It's an example of failed player to player interaction, no one is guilty of that but players themselves.
It's understandable, because people grew accustomed to "push a button - get reward" thing. So there's no downtime, little to no interaction with complete strangers, etc. There are still tools to make pvp at least how it was before, but no one have the balls to start going against the system of insta rewarding players, cause it's comfortable to relax and play with your friends And what players do to fix this? Asking for MORE rewards. Instead of more players. Playing pvp can be a reward by itself if done properly, but ppl drowning in pixel itemlevels and titles don't get that, because scrooge mcducks don't share, but they always need more.

Most of the problems in WoW can be fixed and they only exist because of the playerbase want to see it that way, to not do anything about it, and not work towards a better gameplay for everyone, but themselves. Current playerbase used to have other people to do that unprofitable stuff for them, but they left the game, and playerbase stuck with themselves not wanting to do dirty/unprofitable things. So we have first world problems here. There's lots of shiny stuff they call "rewards", but no people to experience it with, making these rewards meaningless.
And it's not gonna change in the future, as more and more people are alienated from the game because of other's selfishness and stupidity.

[Caolela]

I don't play pvp because of unrealistic expectations that came with instant gratifications.
How to start doing rated pvp if no one wants to even try you? They can just pvp with their friends/guilds versus other friends/guilds and blame blizzard for fking up pvp that no one plays it anymore except a few known groups (even here people are reporting playing with or versus the same exact groups in pvp).

This one is not on blizzard. It's an example of failed player to player interaction, no one is guilty of that but players themselves.
It's understandable, because people grew accustomed to "push a button - get reward" thing. So there's no downtime, little to no interaction with complete strangers, etc. There are still tools to make pvp at least how it was before, but no one have the balls to start going against the system of insta rewarding players, cause it's comfortable to relax and play with your friends And what players do to fix this? Asking for MORE rewards. Instead of more players. Playing pvp can be a reward by itself if done properly, but ppl drowning in pixel itemlevels and titles don't get that, because scrooge mcducks don't share, but they always need more.

Most of the problems in WoW can be fixed and they only exist because of the playerbase want to see it that way, to not do anything about it, and not work towards a better gameplay for everyone, but themselves. Current playerbase used to have other people to do that unprofitable stuff for them, but they left the game, and playerbase stuck with themselves not wanting to do dirty/unprofitable things. So we have first world problems here. There's lots of shiny stuff they call "rewards", but no people to experience it with, making these rewards meaningless.
And it's not gonna change in the future, as more and more people are alienated from the game because of other's selfishness and stupidity.

Other's selfishness and stupidity has something to do with it yes, but most of this can be placed squarely on Blizzard. Nothing got put in the game that Blizz didn't want in, and what you're talking about started way back with LFR/LFG and merging realms type of shit that was Blizzes decision.

Blizz also killed oQueue that no one asked them to do IIRC, which was a much better way to group for Rated than LFG.

Blizz has steadily simplified, dumbed, and RNG'ed the game for their own profit reasons, not because there was a great outcry for it. That's why they took many of the asshats from Diablo and brought them over to WoW, like Jay 'Shut Up PvP Guy' Wilson. I mean, did the player base scream that they wanted the game Diablo-ized? Not that I recall hearing.

Then the rampant cheating that Blizz has always looked the other way on. Doing bans in waves instead of individually, and when they just lowered the Battlechest price, and toward the end of a financial quarter. None of that is coincidence or accident.

Many other examples but players have only reacted to what the game has become over time, and that's on Blizz.