Demonic Eyebeam Build

[Fozzle]

Some entertaining numbers from the latest sim build for my DH on PTR at ~Ilvl 878, using HecticAddCleave, 300 Seconds:

Momentum (2213131) : 577K momo uptime: 53.62%
Nemesis (2213331) : 565K Nem uptime: 50%
Demonic with unleashed (3313323) : 638K meta uptime: 54%
Demonic with reborn (3313333) : 636K Meta uptime: 54%

Both of the demonic builds simed very strong in a M+ish environment. One offers you more chances to Chaos nova and stun targets, and the other one offers you resets. The differences in DPS are not significant. Very interesting!

EDIT: efore someone asks, First Blood simed almost 30k DPS lower for the demonic builds.

[roguetank]

Some entertaining numbers from the latest sim build for my DH on PTR at ~Ilvl 878, using HecticAddCleave, 300 Seconds:

Momentum (2213131) : 577K momo uptime: 53.62%
Nemesis (2213331) : 565K Nem uptime: 50%
Demonic with unleashed (3313323) : 638K meta uptime: 54%
Demonic with reborn (3313333) : 636K Meta uptime: 54%

Both of the demonic builds simed very strong in a M+ish environment. One offers you more chances to Chaos nova and stun targets, and the other one offers you resets. The differences in DPS are not significant. Very interesting!

EDIT: efore someone asks, First Blood simed almost 30k DPS lower for the demonic builds.

This is very encouraging, what legendaries did you have on?

Also, were you still using FR on cooldown? Nevermind, I realize this says sim, but i would assume so.

[Fozzle]

ring and head, so admittedly two of the best legs for this setup...

[Deleted]

Me and Wardonis did some tests and sims on the ptr last week (or 2 weeks?, anywho I sadly lost the numbers) ago, the demonic build is definitely legit and really fun to play, it can blow up adds pretty fast and has a lot of burst aoe on a very low cd. Dps wise it was really close, should give it a try!

[vulena]

Some entertaining numbers from the latest sim build for my DH on PTR at ~Ilvl 878, using HecticAddCleave, 300 Seconds:

Momentum (2213131) : 577K momo uptime: 53.62%
Nemesis (2213331) : 565K Nem uptime: 50%
Demonic with unleashed (3313323) : 638K meta uptime: 54%
Demonic with reborn (3313333) : 636K Meta uptime: 54%

Both of the demonic builds simed very strong in a M+ish environment. One offers you more chances to Chaos nova and stun targets, and the other one offers you resets. The differences in DPS are not significant. Very interesting!

EDIT: efore someone asks, First Blood simed almost 30k DPS lower for the demonic builds.

And the ST sim? Has to be mentally averaged with the HecticAddCleave for actual M+ viability; if non-demonic's drop off is significantly smaller, Demonic's not going to fly.

Also would be useful to set fight length at 4 minutes; Nemesis will do better on fights that last for an odd number of minutes because of the cooldown and length.

[Fozzle]

And the ST sim? Has to be mentally averaged with the HecticAddCleave for actual M+ viability; if non-demonic's drop off is significantly smaller, Demonic's not going to fly.

Also would be useful to set fight length at 4 minutes; Nemesis will do better on fights that last for an odd number of minutes because of the cooldown and length.

My Sims had me at about 5% or so DPS loss on ST going from Nem to Demonic. It was like 430k for Nem, and 416 for Demonic. I will rerun them at 4 minutes and post tomorrow.

[Faenlyn]

My Sims had me at about 5% or so DPS loss on ST going from Nem to Demonic. It was like 430k for Nem, and 416 for Demonic. I will rerun them at 4 minutes and post tomorrow.

Nem vs Demonic? Theyre not on the same row..

[Fozzle]

@Faenlyn I was referring to the build names I used in my previous post, not the skill names.

So, 240 Seconds, Patchwerk:
Demonic (3313333) : 422K
Momentum: (2213111) : 435K
Nemesis: (2213311) : 447K

So on ST, as assumed momo is in the middle, and Nemesis is on top. Demonic build is 5% lagging behind.

Now lets do 240 seconds, Hectic cleave:
Demonic (3313333) : 653K - Pawn string( Pawn: v1: "Cyrillia": Agility=16.02, CritRating=10.42, HasteRating=15.36, MasteryRating=12.69, Versatility=11.94 )
Momentum: (2213111) : 564K - Pawn string( Pawn: v1: "Cyrillia": Agility=17.29, CritRating=12.59, HasteRating=7.49, MasteryRating=14.56, Versatility=11.76 )
Nemesis: (2213311) : 538K - Pawn string( Pawn: v1: "Cyrillia": Agility=14.19, CritRating=10.19, HasteRating=5.62, MasteryRating=13.32, Versatility=9.92 )

So the demonic build comes out ahead by about 15% from momentum, and 20% over nemesis.
My character on PTR is lagging behind live, so this sim was done with these notes:
- These were run on the Dec 21 nightly 715-01 build
- I have Anger and Raddon's on.
- Weapon AP is currently at rank 32, so no 5%
- crit = 40%, haste 7%, Mastery 31%, Vers 2%
- Had a decent amount of crit and mastery, so I stuck with CC over First Blood.
- run without Nighthold set bonus of any kind.

I also find it very interesting how varied the pawn string is from build to build. Like the advantages of haste in that top build are wacky.

[Faenlyn]

@Faenlyn I was referring to the build names I used in my previous post, not the skill names.

So, 240 Seconds, Patchwerk:
Demonic (3313333) : 422K
Momentum: (2213111) : 435K
Nemesis: (2213311) : 447K

So on ST, as assumed momo is in the middle, and Nemesis is on top. Demonic build is 5% lagging behind.

I guess what Im not understanding is why are you gimping the Demonic talent by pairing it with clearly inferior other talent choices such Blind Fury and Demonic Appetite.. Just because they seemed to have been designed with the Demonic talent in mind? But no one is forcing you to pair those 3

I guess you're Im not exactly sure on what you're trying to prove with that Demonic talent setup. You're just changing too many variables at one time.

In the above sims you should be trying 2213113 and 2213313 as your Demonic builds for a fair comparison or better
yet simming 1213133 which i think will the top performing Demonic spec

[Fozzle]

Well, it's because I'm not actually gimping my DPS I'm making it better by selecting those choices. I've run those scenarios and they don't come out anywhere near (in sims)

240 Seconds, Patchwerk again:
2213113 : 406K
2213313 : 415K

And the build you think should be the top performing spec?
1213133 : 355K

Buff up time on Meta goes from 34% with that Fel Mastery build you have, to 54% with the Blind Fury build I have and that is why the soul fragment build shines. Both Blind Fury and Demonic Appetite by themselves are pretty crappy. But pair them with Feast of Souls, and I usually come out of an 8 second Meta from an Eye beam with only 10 seconds left or so till the next Eye beam. Damage from Annihilation is double the damage from CS because you are in Meta so long. You think they are inferior because someone told you they were inferior. And I didn't post every single build I simed, just the ones that seem like they are feasible. Those three weren't feasible. What I am trying "to prove" as you say is that this strange build has numbers behind it that says it is competitive.... right now...according to a sim...With this many changes you need to sim yourself and see how things are shaking up. And in my own testing on Mr. Forgefiend these numbers seem to hold up, and the AoE numbers are actually much much better.

in a 4 minute fight with imps, I got 860K. It looked like this:


(I'm not actually trying to prove anything outside of it looks like Demon Hunters have actual options this patch instead of 99/100 DHs running the same spec.)

[infinitemeridian]

Question, does Demonic synergize with Demon Reborn or is it literally only when you use Meta?

[Fozzle]

it does... not. BUT Demonic is additive to Meta, so Your opener will look something like Nemesis, FR, dbite for 50, eye beam, strike strike strike, meta, Eye beam, strike strike strike... You will end up with about 45-48 seconds of straight meta, and then Eye beam is up again, giving you another 8 seconds. So you can spend almost your entire nemesis in meta. That is without any special gear or relics.

[Faenlyn]

Well, it's because I'm not actually gimping my DPS I'm making it better by selecting those choices. I've run those scenarios and they don't come out anywhere near (in sims)

240 Seconds, Patchwerk again:
2213113 : 406K
2213313 : 415K

And the build you think should be the top performing spec?
1213133 : 355K

Buff up time on Meta goes from 34% with that Fel Mastery build you have, to 54% with the Blind Fury build I have and that is why the soul fragment build shines. Both Blind Fury and Demonic Appetite by themselves are pretty crappy. But pair them with Feast of Souls, and I usually come out of an 8 second Meta from an Eye beam with only 10 seconds left or so till the next Eye beam. Damage from Annihilation is double the damage from CS because you are in Meta so long. You think they are inferior because someone told you they were inferior. And I didn't post every single build I simed, just the ones that seem like they are feasible. Those three weren't feasible. What I am trying "to prove" as you say is that this strange build has numbers behind it that says it is competitive.... right now...according to a sim...With this many changes you need to sim yourself and see how things are shaking up. And in my own testing on Mr. Forgefiend these numbers seem to hold up, and the AoE numbers are actually much much better.

in a 4 minute fight with imps, I got 860K. It looked like this:


(I'm not actually trying to prove anything outside of it looks like Demon Hunters have actual options this patch instead of 99/100 DHs running the same spec.)

Thanks for all the work you put in and the insight it provides. It is very helpful. I definitely did speak without having all the information available

[Deleted]

Some entertaining numbers from the latest sim build for my DH on PTR at ~Ilvl 878, using HecticAddCleave, 300 Seconds:

Momentum (2213131) : 577K momo uptime: 53.62%
Nemesis (2213331) : 565K Nem uptime: 50%
Demonic with unleashed (3313323) : 638K meta uptime: 54%
Demonic with reborn (3313333) : 636K Meta uptime: 54%

Both of the demonic builds simed very strong in a M+ish environment. One offers you more chances to Chaos nova and stun targets, and the other one offers you resets. The differences in DPS are not significant. Very interesting!

EDIT: efore someone asks, First Blood simed almost 30k DPS lower for the demonic builds.

I got very similar results with my character ilvl 880
2213131: 575k DPS
2213331: 564k DPS
3313323: 667k DPS
3313333: 666k DPS

If you focus on AoE following build is much better (for me) tho
3131112: 792k DPS

But it lacks somewhat 13k DPS on the main target in comparison to 3313333, so I don't know if that is worth it. For Mythic+ I tend to use the AoE heavy builds in dungeons like DHT where big mob packs have to die very fast

Edit: Oh and I have eye beam and blur legendary

[sajin001]

What's the rotation like for the eye beam build?

[Deleted]

nemesis, fury if the illidari, demons bite until 50 fury, eyebeam, meta, eyebeam, anihilation spam. after that eyebeam on cds.

[Prag]

(lots of great info)

Thanks for sharing this.

[Chevrato]

My excitement for this build (and the fact that it is being discussed seriously very few places) has gotten me to transfer from long time lurker to poster here, only took the better part of a decade.

Thank you to everyone simming, testing, and posting about the various Havoc builds so far in this thread, this information is very insightful! I have a few questions (especially for Faenlyn) about stat weights and stat levels for the sims that are being run.

In the 33133(2or3)3 builds, I am curious, might they benefit from more haste? If I am not mistaken (and I might be) shouldn't enough haste to bring us to 16% be enough to fit another attack into the 8 second demonic windows? (41% haste in demon form should bring the gcd to .885, enough for 9 actions in 8 seconds, unless I am doing my math wrong... the GCD in demon form can still go down to .750 correct)?

If this is the case shouldn't reaching that haste soft cap be our number 1 stat priority? I am curious how this might effect the sims for this build?

Regardless, I am fairly certain it will be what I am playing when the patch drops, the spec just feels so smooth compared to all the others rotation wise, and it is quite amusing having 100% leech over 50% of the time you are in combat.

[Littlepwny]

In the 33133(2or3)3 builds, I am curious, might they benefit from more haste? If I am not mistaken (and I might be) shouldn't enough haste to bring us to 16% be enough to fit another attack into the 8 second demonic windows? (41% haste in demon form should bring the gcd to .885, enough for 9 actions in 8 seconds, unless I am doing my math wrong... the GCD in demon form can still go down to .750 correct)?

The formula is 1/(1 + haste%) for the GCD during Metamorphosis.

This means that for .885 GCD we only requires 13% haste which we have by default. For 0.8 GCD (10 attacks), we require 25% haste which we also have by default. 33% haste to reduce the GCD to the minimum of .750 for 10.66 to compensate for lag.

However, the Demonic build does seem to favour Haste over the rest of the stats according to my current gearset in SimC (47.45% crit, 10.54% haste, 8.37% Vers, 22.45% Mas on live).

I'm also quite excited playing this build but I'm a bit dissapointed that I will have to spam zero-damage Demon's Bite 33% of the fight.

Thanks for the answer.

Not sure how this is going to affect most of you, but I've made a curious discovery - once you replace actions+=/eye_beam,if=talent.demonic.enabled&buff.metamorphosis.down&fury.deficit<30 with actions+=/eye_beam,if=talent.demonic.enabled
and
actions+=/pick_up_fragment,if=talent.demonic_appetite.enabled&fury.deficit>=30 with actions+=/pick_up_fragment,if=talent.demonic_appetite.enabled&fury.deficit>=35

to account for the 7.1.5 changes (you want to use eye beam on cooldown period while using demonic, and adding meta duration was fixed for both buff sources) Demonic seems to be really strong on ST as well.

proof: imgur . com / V3dU3fy

since I can't post links just yet.

The above improvements also seem to increase the ST capabilities of the 3310333 build. The first change increased my DPS from ~446k to ~466k while the second provided a minor ~200 DPS.

2220311 is at ~485k.
2210311 is at ~469k.

Legendaries are Cinidaria and Bracers.

[Faenlyn]

The formula is 1/(1 + haste%) for the GCD during Metamorphosis.



I'm also quite excited playing this build but I'm a bit dissapointed that I will have to spam zero-damage Demon's Bite 33% of the fight.



The above improvements also seem to increase the ST capabilities of the 3310333 build. The first change increased my DPS from ~446k to ~466k while the second provided a minor ~200 DPS.

2220311 is at ~485k.
2210311 is at ~469k.

Legendaries are Cinidaria and Bracers.

I agree with you. Can someone sim 3210333 please for those of who refuse to go Demons bite. How much DPS would losing Demonic appetite for DB net you in that build? If its a minor DPS loss, it would be a major QoL for me to go without bite.