Legion ended up being a repetitive grind

[Molis]

Every game is as grindy as you allow it to be. Yes even Candy Crush or Super Mario.

This is not an issue with the game it is an issue with you and your playstyle.

Just quit already. I am enjoying the game, and yes I will inevitably take a break, but do not act like you have solved world hunger with this post.

[Heladys]

Funny that WoW classic became only popular because it wasnt such a grind fest like its competition during that time. And no, ever since classic end this game didnt require as much time as it does now.

Maybe read some posts before you post next time.

Maybe read the post you're replying to before you reply to it, given you restated exactly what I said, sunshine.

[baskev]

We haven't even gotten to the tier raids and already the flaws are showing. The amount of grind that legion created puts any previous expansions to shame. Even netherwing eggs wasn't this bad. What we have here is an infinite amount of grind.

Artifact power is something that should never have been implemented. It forces players to spend as much time as they can completing the same dungeons over and over.I'm not even going to talk about legendaries but I will say that it adds to the problem immensely. Artifact power forces a raider to log in every 1-3 day to complete all emissary quests and clear the map of artifact power. If you stop at any point you are already behind. Lets not forget the time gate that is artifact knowledge. Past expansions I was happy just logging in at raid time, raiding, and logging off. It kept the game fun for me and everyone else in my guild. Now Blizzard has forced everyone to play.

This causes the game to become stale quickly. I am in a mythic guild that is 7/7 2/3 and we have had people quit due to being burned out.

Casual players may not notice the problem and why should they? They aren't concerned with artifact power and are able to play the game at their own pace. However mythic raiders are experiencing the burnout. Just these last 2 months 10 raiders have left saying that they are burnt out on legion. I don't blame them. Having to run 50+ mythic dungeons a day takes its toll on a person.

This doesn't include needing to farm gold and herbs and AUGMENT RUNES outside of raid which is another 2-4 hours in itself.

On top of all of this the raids themselves are not even worth completing. The fights are boring as hell (mythic odyn) and bring nothing new to the table. What happened to the quality that was Ulduar? Nighthold on the ptr leaves nothing to be desired. The least Blizzard could do was make the raid fights interesting but no.

What we are left with Is the player feeling cheated and unsatisfied. I'm staring at 3 million more artifact power until my next trait and I can't help but feeling like I just don't care about this anymore.

Its not fun. Its not satisfying. Its a waste of time.

...........hahahahahahaha

A mmo is a grind....OMG never knew that. WORLD BREAKING NEWS.

go cry me a river.

A mmo is always a grind. A mmo has more quest and story then multiple normal games have in 3 sequels combined. And still people cry.
you have raids in multi dificulty's , pet battle's, dungeons ( in ALLOT of difficulty's), time walking dungeons, pet battle's, pvp. And they made it so pretty much all the things help you gear/get artifact power.

Artifact power is good. its a good way to implement some effort into a legendary. After getting the main talents ( witch i even did playing almost never) you should be at full talents a long time ago. After that it gives you some extra %....but so do extra gem slots on gear. So if you can not kill something with a gem slot less. Then its your "talents" or your groups "talents" what is the cause. not 1 less point in a artifact.

As for going stale....holy shit dude. Its a mmo. And they have a new raid planned in less then a month. so if you are 2/3 and you think the content is stale while you have not even finished it before the next raid....( big one i might add)....then stop playing games.

And it is your choice. to run so much dungeons for so much gear/a-power.

Farm gold...holy shit dude. the missions from you order hall should cover your repairs.

And a good guild helps the alchemist to gather stuff. And he makes the pauldrons etc.

And fights are not interesting. the fact that they still find new ways after all these years is a wonder.

You know what a waste of time is.....responding and reading your text!!!!


soo.....

Its a mmo and its a rpg...so it supposed to be a kinda grind.

If you are at 90 to 95% max power of your hero. then with good gear you should be able to complete stuff. If not...you or your group are not that good at raiding as you think you are....( aka you might not be uber raiders, but just below uber raiders , but still well above good raiders).

If you work together as a guild flasks etc should not be a problem. And thanks to order hall neither should repairs.

what should they do according to you....give free loot???

[melodramocracy]

OP longs for the halcyon days of hovering over the Org / Stormwind bank, lamenting the fact that there was simply "nothing to do".

[Elim Garak]

It's much better to stroll around Dalaran simply living the "nothing to do".

[KrazyK923]

This is why WoW will never have an actual good end-game.

People have legitimate problems with the insane overabundance of sinks and grinds in Legion, and then here comes the Legion (hurrrrrr) of white knights barfing out "UR JUST TIRED OF DA GAME" nonsense.

So Blizzard just bounces between each extreme every expansion.

[crusadernero]

It's much better to stroll around Dalaran simply living the "nothing to do".

Yeah.. I remember when people used to race around Dalaran and taking the time. See whoever was the fastest lol

[Deleted]

Yeah.. I remember when people used to race around Dalaran and taking the time. See whoever was the fastest lol

Only morons did that. Most people spent their time raiding, leveling alts etc.

[Granyala]

I quite like the concept of world quests.
Suramar is a bit of a pain in the rear (although lovely to look at).

But then again I'm not one of them players that went all OCD on th AP grind. Rarely did more than the quests needed for emissary.
Only beef I have with WQ is the lack of map indicators, as I hate searching for crap.

[KrazyK923]

You guys had a "legimate problem" with the lack of things to do in WoD, I guess that is indeed why "WoW will never be balanced". The "white knights" just point out that people complain no matter what. (and it is not even a surprise, I actually do think too much to do can be daunting and frustrating to people with little time as too little to do is frustrating to people that can play infinitely)

Because there was a lack of things to do in WoD.

Just because now there's an abundance of pointless shit to do doesn't suddenly mean the problem has gone away. If anything, its worse, because Blizzard now hides behind the "Look at all the things to do!" excuse when 90% of it is either just not worth it (The incredibly low AP reward WQs, even with a TON of AK) or completed in about an hour. And so now we have people talking about how there's nothing to do in Legion, and they're right. Just the asterisk is "Nothing rewarding to do."

Furthermore the lack of end-game things to do in WoD doesn't justify the fact that literally every aspect of Legion's end-game has a time sink aspect attached to it. It doesn't excuse the fact that a major quest chain in 7.1 begins with "Go do the old stuff again, but you can only get 10 PointlessThingies per week and you need 80 PointlessThingies to complete this!"

So we now come to "U JUST DUN LIKE DA GAME ANYMORE" or "U JUST WAN ERRTHANG GIVEN TO YOU!" responses to any kind of criticism. It smacks exactly of the denial that was thrown out when the few of us who were in WoD's alpha were pointing out its problems far ahead of time and being told we were just haters. Blizzard learned from their mistakes and, this time, hid the time sinks slightly better so that a lot of us who were testing the game didn't realize it until it was too late.

There's a reason a lot of us who were giving Legion rave reviews during the beta have done a 180.

[Heltoray]

Uh, how do you think that's even close to an analogous argument? Why are we talking about classes all the sudden? When did I say there was a problem with any classes? We're talking specifically about AP right now, keep up.

I am keeping up, it is just stupid to say that this is a player made problem. It is 100% artificial. I just showed you that by your logic basically every problem would be "player made" and that this is in no way an argument to deflect the criticism of a lot of players regarding the grinding and rng madness of legion.

[RuneDK]

We haven't even gotten to the tier raids and already the flaws are showing. The amount of grind that legion created puts any previous expansions to shame. Even netherwing eggs wasn't this bad. What we have here is an infinite amount of grind.

Artifact power is something that should never have been implemented. It forces players to spend as much time as they can completing the same dungeons over and over.I'm not even going to talk about legendaries but I will say that it adds to the problem immensely. Artifact power forces a raider to log in every 1-3 day to complete all emissary quests and clear the map of artifact power. If you stop at any point you are already behind. Lets not forget the time gate that is artifact knowledge. Past expansions I was happy just logging in at raid time, raiding, and logging off. It kept the game fun for me and everyone else in my guild. Now Blizzard has forced everyone to play.

This causes the game to become stale quickly. I am in a mythic guild that is 7/7 2/3 and we have had people quit due to being burned out.

Casual players may not notice the problem and why should they? They aren't concerned with artifact power and are able to play the game at their own pace. However mythic raiders are experiencing the burnout. Just these last 2 months 10 raiders have left saying that they are burnt out on legion. I don't blame them. Having to run 50+ mythic dungeons a day takes its toll on a person.

This doesn't include needing to farm gold and herbs and AUGMENT RUNES outside of raid which is another 2-4 hours in itself.

On top of all of this the raids themselves are not even worth completing. The fights are boring as hell (mythic odyn) and bring nothing new to the table. What happened to the quality that was Ulduar? Nighthold on the ptr leaves nothing to be desired. The least Blizzard could do was make the raid fights interesting but no.

What we are left with Is the player feeling cheated and unsatisfied. I'm staring at 3 million more artifact power until my next trait and I can't help but feeling like I just don't care about this anymore.

Its not fun. Its not satisfying. Its a waste of time.

Part of the problem is probably your guild. Are you in a guild that has a requirement for traits by nighthold? I stopped giving a shit about AP once I hit 35 on my main spec, im getting my two other specs to 30/31 and not giving a shit again for a while. Whatever comes, comes. I do not give a shit enough to continue the grind going forward...maybe when AK25 is obtained and seeing 1m AP on the map...I MAY be interested again in grinding ap otherwise I'm good.

I think the thing that pisses me off more than the AP grind is the shitty legendary system....I know they don't want to call it a failed system yet....but it is...It's time to either make them drop like candy or make it so you pick the one you want. I am competitive with numbers in a raid setting and while I'm one of the top DPSers in my guild, I know I'm not the top because I don't have one specific legendary....but I do have three total...one is a crap dps one, the other will actually be pretty great for M+ in 7.1.5 and beyond(until they nerf it again), and the other is only 2nd BiS because of how much Mastery is on it. Knowing I could get sephaz or prydaz as my next legendaries doesn't make me too thrilled either...I have been lucky with not getting the absolute shit of the shit...but just knowing that's a possibility is infuriating with this shit system.

[KrazyK923]

I usually ask at this point what was the totally to the point and important stuff to do in other x-pacs. What did you find so enticing in whatever your favourite x-pac was? I mean, I played them all...and they all were a hamster wheel of repetitive grind of reputations or zones to acquire either gear or mounts or access to the next level of....a dungeon, a raid etc

Except even as early as MoP, you weren't sitting there grinding missions or unable to continue a storyline due to a flatout time gate put there. Reputation gates existed, but if you played every day you got there faster than people who didn't. Unlike today which isn't true. There only thing even remotely close to the Illidan in 7.1 chain is the LEGENDARY quest chain, which gave you one of the best items in the patch, unlike in Legion where eventually you'll be able to upgrade your Legendary, if you have one, slightly more.

You didn't have to get lucky if you were a cook for a raiding guild (Like I was) hoping that today was the day that Nomi decided to give you a rank 3 of a thing so you weren't burning through mats as fast. You weren't hoping that you'd get that world quest or drop from a boss, you were just clearly able to work toward the few recipes that were tied to a faction.

There are plenty of other things that Legion does over-the-top compared to other expansions (Flying, Nightfallen, ect), but that's good enough for people to really hate Legion.

You can stop pretending that the staples of a MMO are what people are talking about. They aren't.

[KrazyK923]

And this is why this conversation will never go anywhere.

You dismiss all criticism. I'm out. I donno why I even tried.

Oh and no, Ony scales or SR is not the same as what I brought up. That's a joke. Nor was I saying the older ways were better. Take your strawman elsewhere.

[Marrilaife]

The sad part is myself and many others still love mythic raiding but are completely bored of everything else. Problem is if I don't do everything else, I can't be a mythic raider. Past expansions you could put in your time up front, then simply log in for raid and, for the most part, avoid the rest of the stuff you've grown bored of and still be competitive. To be a mythic raider in this expansion takes so much more outside of skill and it's making an already small community even smaller. In the end, outside of pvp, the only really challenging part of the game I find is mythic raiding. I also find it the only fun part. It's a shame I have to engage repeatedly in such boring, trivial content at a scale far different than past expansions in order to enjoy the real challenges this game has to offer. And I don't mind grinding some...I don't mind some RNG...it's just gotten out of control. No longer can one simply enjoy their niche if they are a mythic raider.

Fully agree, I like to raid mythic, not at world-top-cutting-edge level but at least give it a honest attempt, because heroic gets on "farm" status terribly fast and then it just doesn't hold much interest except for alt runs (which I don't have time for atm, but I liked to do them in some other expansions).

I personally got to the point I cba farming, I got my 35 traits in mainspec and I have 2 shitty legendaries but I just can't force myself further, I want to play my alts, do some transmog runs, work on my professions (even though legion managed to push me away from that, "we have best profession designer team this time", yeah sure Blizz...)

But yeah my raid leader subtly (or not so subtly) suggested before our xmas raid break we should run more m+... I'm pretty sure in many other guilds there are internal tensions between the group of "hardcore farmers" and those who just want to log to raid.

I have friends in a more progressed guild and recently they had drama, the raid leader trash talked one of their healers in front of the raid that he is lagging behind in artifact traits (and that's still in the guild that doesn't do split runs, class stacking, raiding alts, and all the super hardcore shenanigans), the guy repeatedly said before he has a job and family and can't really sink extra hours into the game, but it came to this point it exploded and the outcome is obvious, the guy decided to quit because he can't keep up.

My friends told me they literally had more people quit from the raid team in Legion than during the whole long HFC content drought where supposedly playerbase was unsubbing in droves.

[Granyala]

Have the people who asked for the good old times to come back forgotten how shitty the good old times were?

Absolutely, without a doubt 95% of all people who ask for the old times have VERY .... euphemistic memories of said time.

[Deleted]

yep legion is a big grind, im not as geared as others cause i dont do as much M+ i do 2/3 max sometimes i dont even do one per week. Im playing less then i did during wods eternity of hfc and tbh i had more fun even then or duing prepatch then i have now, my favotire spec of my dk blood was ruined for me in legion in wod i Always enjoyed soloing stuff or just helping friends through dungeons/raids.
Oh and TF is worst idea ever.

[bergmann620]

No.

You simply got it completely wrong. The problem isn't the system, but your attitude towards it. And I find it baffling how many people keep falling into this same trap.

This is pretty much it, here. The only truly important 'grind' is to keep your Artifact Knowledge as high as possible. Everything else is pretty much a parabolic path of diminishing returns.

Here's how to know if you need to get every drop of AP in the game:

Are you a world-first level raider?

No? Good. You don't need to endlessly farm AP, because you're playing for fun. Derive your sense of worth outside of a video game.

Yes? Good. You don't need to endlessly farm AP, because virtually every world-first kill ever happens way before you max out any specific gear plateau. You'll acquire more than enough AP doing all the other things you do to prepare for raids.

[kary]

This is pretty much it, here. The only truly important 'grind' is to keep your Artifact Knowledge as high as possible. Everything else is pretty much a parabolic path of diminishing returns.

Here's how to know if you need to get every drop of AP in the game:

Are you a world-first level raider?

No? Good. You don't need to endlessly farm AP, because you're playing for fun. Derive your sense of worth outside of a video game.

Yes? Good. You don't need to endlessly farm AP, because virtually every world-first kill ever happens way before you max out any specific gear plateau. You'll acquire more than enough AP doing all the other things you do to prepare for raids.

World first raiders don't even endlessly farm AP, that's the funny thing.

[Granyala]

World first raiders don't even endlessly farm AP, that's the funny thing.

No one, except a few OCD wannabe whiners does.
Every human with even an ounce of common sense immediately noticed that this was not the intention.