Francis Fukuyama: the Left abandoned its economic agenda in favor of identity poltics

[Dextroden]

This is exactly what the left should be concerned about- culture. Not work- or making money rather.

The idea is to move to an eventual end to capitalism. The furthest spectrum of the left side of the political divide is communism.

And there you have it folks. Missing people's actual concerns to go on about nothing useful.

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I saw this quote in Theo's post and unignored you just to confirm it was directed at me. Thank you for providing such a neat example of how people here have no fucking clue what I actually think, but will gladly fill it in with their worst conceptions of whatever vague political position they feel I occupy nonetheless.



Such Trump. Meni Hitler. Wow.

"That behavior bothers me".

Top kek.

[Endus]

Yeay, no. Nazis and KKK being on the lips of the populace says that no hive mind stuff is garbage.

Remember, Trump is Hitler.

You're making a hive mind argument, here.

I'm sure you folks would agree I'm a massive lefty, right? Well, I've never accused all right-wingers of being Nazis, or KKK members. Not even of all of them being alt-righters. The ONLY connections I've drawn between Trump and Hitler were that their rhetorical styles share some disturbing similarities, and I clarified that in that comparison, I was talking about early-30's Hitler, not full-blown Fuhrer-running-the-Holocaust Hitler. Because the comparison wasn't meant to imply that Trump is an anti-semite or wants to start a holocaust, but to underscore the danger of beating the drum of nationalism and fear through demagoguery.

So I clearly don't fit the hive mind you're claiming exists, and haven't ever claimed such a hive mind in return. It's all in your head.

[PC2]

The idea is to move to an eventual end to capitalism. The furthest spectrum of the left side of the political divide is communism.

Which has turned out to be a fantasy goal. Private production and states are stronger than ever.

[Rennadrel]

There is no "the Left". Even in the US alone, that label covers a huge range of independent groups, whose ideological views are pretty wildly different on most topics, with only some very vague shared principles. The idea that "the Left" is some homogenous hive mind is ridiculous as hell.

That doesn't make it "too spread out ideologically", it means that your insistence that they're a single entity is wrong.

Also, the "progressive stack" isn't really a "thing". It's a weird concept that basically only ever existed briefly in the Occupy movement, but for some reason, you folks think it's some kind of core left-wing concept, and it's not. It's a pretty damn silly idea.

As for the identity v. economy nonsense, the Democratic platform in the 2016 election had a huge focus on economic issues; https://www.democrats.org/party-platform

Just going by section titles, the first three major sections are entirely about economics. It wasn't "abandoned" in favor of "identity politics", it just didn't get media attention because there was nothing to get angry about, unlike racists who get enraged by "identity politics".

And I'm going to keep putting "identity politics" in quotes, because the reality is that it basically boils down to "we respect civil rights of all people and think prejudice and hatred over variety is wrong". Which isn't really something you can take issue with, which is why you want a convenient label to use.

Probably because Democrats aren't real leftists. America doesn't have a real liberal party, one that actually represents the left and a liberal ideology, at least not one of any significant importance. That is the cause and effect of a two party majority system as well. The Democrats trying to identify themselves as liberals doesn't make them liberals. Aside from their often foolish stances on a couple of common liberal ideologies, most of their policies are centrist at best. And yet, Clinton's campaign and the people who voted for her had so little to do with economics and focused so hard on the fact that she was a woman, and one with scandals to her name at that which so many of her voters and the DNC both blatantly ignored, was the reason why the Democrats made her the presidential candidate. If they really wanted to stick to true liberal values, Bernie Sanders would have been their candidate. Identity politics is exactly why she got the nomination, not because of her policies. The Democrats foolishly thought they could win the election because "it's Trump" and "first female president" were more important reasons than actual policies and the quality of the candidate.

[Dextroden]

You're making a hive mind argument, here.

I'm sure you folks would agree I'm a massive lefty, right? Well, I've never accused all right-wingers of being Nazis, or KKK members. Not even of all of them being alt-righters. The ONLY connections I've drawn between Trump and Hitler were that their rhetorical styles share some disturbing similarities, and I clarified that in that comparison, I was talking about early-30's Hitler, not full-blown Fuhrer-running-the-Holocaust Hitler. Because the comparison wasn't meant to imply that Trump is an anti-semite or wants to start a holocaust, but to underscore the danger of beating the drum of nationalism and fear through demagoguery.

So I clearly don't fit the hive mind you're claiming exists, and haven't ever claimed such a hive mind in return. It's all in your head.

So, what's wrong with comparing Hitler to Obama, a man who ran on a populist platform of changing a broken country, if it's not about marring a person and just describing a rise to power?

Bonus points. It looked really fucking stupid to call Trump Hitler for ANY reason after complaining about Obama being called Hitler. It's just as stupid as deeming pictures comparing Obama to a primate as bad after 8 years of Bush being a chimpanzee and Trump now being an orangutan.

[Endus]

So, what's wrong with comparing Hitler to Obama, a man who ran on a populist platform of changing a broken country, if it's not about marring a person and just describing a rise to power?

Because he didn't share any of those same troubling threads in his rhetoric.

Bonus points. It looked really fucking stupid to call Trump Hitler for ANY reason after complaining about Obama being called Hitler. It's just as stupid as deeming pictures comparing Obama to a primate as bad after 8 years of Bush being a chimpanzee and Trump now being an orangutan.

Only if you're somehow incapable of seeing the obvious historically racist overtones of using that kind of comparison with a black man, neither of which exists for the other two individuals.

[Dezerte]

I don't see how this could apply to US politics, yes to identity politics but "the left" in the US seemed more of a "Third-way"-type of left-wing that has more or less abandoned left-wing ideas on economics already.

I find it applies to some extent to Swedish politics, which has to do with the way coalitions are formed. Our current coalition since 2014 is left-wing, however I feel that the main ruling party (and whom received the most votes) has become too complaisant. However identify politics is definitely not as extreme as it seems to be in the US (but maybe that is just media blowing it out of proportion) I think we may need a more driven leader for the Social Democrats (leading party in Sweden), but perhaps that is also unfair of me - as due to how coalitions work, maybe we have to make these compromises on social democracy.

tl;dr I'm a social democrat, not entirely convinced by our current party leader's ability to lead.

[Sky High]

Yes, yes, WHATEVER Theo.

[Dextroden]

Because he didn't share any of those same troubling threads in his rhetoric.



Only if you're somehow incapable of seeing the obvious historically racist overtones of using that kind of comparison with a black man, neither of which exists for the other two individuals.

As opposed to "People call the president Hitler or some kind of monkey every time". But, hey, everything negative against Obama or black people in general is racist. Can't allow him to be called a monkey while laughing about how Bush looks like a chimp.

Al Sharpton will cut you a check soon.

[Theodarzna]

Yes, yes, WHATEVER Theo.

Your free to make other threads, much as I've said to Nixx, Be the change you want to be in the world.

[shimerra]

Because .... Reasons!

What's it like for you two arguing against this imagineary enemy no one claimed and still losing? Do you really enjoy mental mastirbation that much?

[Theodarzna]

What's it like for you two arguing against this imagineary enemy no one claimed and still losing? Do you really enjoy mental mastirbation that much?

Make threads that you want to read, be the change you want to see in the world. :3

[JohnBrown1917]

Your free to make other threads, much as I've said to Nixx, Be the change you want to be in the world.

What change do you mean?

[Theodarzna]

What change do you mean?

Whatever change you want, Clearly you want different sorts of discussion threads. By all means make new and interesting threads about topics you care about. Put your ideas out there, make them your own and shine a little light on this dark little pocket of the interwebs.

[PC2]

What change do you mean?

Social change based on universal ideas, as opposed to caring about things like skin color or genitals.

[JohnBrown1917]

Whatever change you want, Clearly you want different sorts of discussion threads. By all means make new and interesting threads about topics you care about. Put your ideas out there, make them your own and shine a little light on this dark little pocket of the interwebs.

I'm calling out how iditioic it is to generalize the left as just 1 party/ideology, but whatever.

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Social change based on universal ideas, as opposed to caring about things like skin color or genitals.

Sounds good, what does it have to do with left-wing parties?

[shimerra]

Make threads that you want to read, be the change you want to see in the world. :3

Trying to be by seeing if I can change your faux-intellectual and horrendously inconsistent standards with regards to left vs right. specifically talking about you and dextrodens self victimization with regards to the whole alt right nonsense while you and him continuously consider the left to be a unanimous borg like collective with a single ideology.

[Theodarzna]

I'm calling out how iditioic it is to generalize the left as just 1 party/ideology, but whatever.

Well I am not really doing that just on my own. Others are as well, and I was citing someone specifically talking about the Left in general in America. The lack of an established Lefty party doesn't change that point.

[PC2]

Sounds good, what does it have to do with left-wing parties?

The point is that left-wingers need to move towards universal ideas. Such as "all lives matter". Instead of falling into identity politics such as with BLM.

[Theodarzna]

Trying to be by seeing if I can change your faux-intellectual and horrendously inconsistent standards with regards to left vs right. specifically talking about you and dextrodens self victimization with regards to the whole alt right nonsense while you and him continuously consider the left to be a unanimous borg like collective with a single ideology.

I don't think either of us have called ourselves Alt-Right, but alright.

Also I would never call myself an Intellectual and never have.

But do go out and make the kind of threads you wish to see. I'll support you 100%.