Watcher knew about Legion issues, did nothing about it

[Chrno]

The person speaking from their experience as a world first guild doesn't relate to the broadness the OP is attempting to project. It's been said enough times that few if any high end guilds choose members based on their number of legendaries, enough to make a compelling argument against the 'theory' of rejecting members for that reason.

The fact that you can't target farm them can be seen one of two ways - liberation that you don't have to feel compelled to farm them, or a prison because you do feel compelled to farm them. I can respect those two views, but imo, one is healthier than the other.

Offtopic, but i just noticed your avator pic. I enjoy those youtube video's you put up sir!
@styil:
All i read is that he knows some people playing WoW would prefer relying solely on skill without the need to get to a certain gear level.
i don't see the huge issue here.

[Aggrophobic]

Considering the top guild didn't even sub people out because of legendaries, Any person that missed out on raiding was either a bad player or only tried to raid with bad players.

They did. They forced people to switch to one of their alts that had the BiS legendaries unless they had them on their mains.

And yes, we all knew the legendary system was crap long befor the game released. Blizzard didn't listen to feedback in the alpha and beta. Not sure why they even have the tests at all.

[Chrno]

I am one of those players...i was in the guild for one and a half year, and we had a pala coming 6 weeks before Legion released
He got the cloack, i got the bench.
He quited the game like a month ago for reasons i don't care, but i never took back my spot, not because i didn't desired to raid, but because i ddint wanted to raid with them.
The fault reside both on Blizzard and on the officers running the guild, but Blizzard caused it.
I am now on my last token left from WoD era, i am playing mostly Battlefield one and some single players game, casually logging in wow for 5 minutes a week....watching the timers ticking down and knowing i will not coming back.
And i am not alone, take a loot around your server, but really look at it....see how many players are from your server , not the CRZ ones.
So yes, i did got benched , demoted to "social" because i did not got the cloack (in time) and other one did. My guild wanted to progress fast and furious, to be able to recruit easier and easier.
Yes, the game is in a very bad shape.
Legion is the doom of it, mark my words.

- - - Updated - - -

sorry but what a load of BS.
i am sorry to say that i really don't believe any of what you wrote down. You seem clueless ...

[Deleted]

Enough of that.

Lets talk about the this troubled community instead.

In the end, if there was no legendary system or multple difficulties, people would whine about something else.

[Charge me Doctor]

They did. They forced people to switch to one of their alts that had the BiS legendaries unless they had them on their mains.

And yes, we all knew the legendary system was crap long befor the game released. Blizzard didn't listen to feedback in the alpha and beta. Not sure why they even have the tests at all.

No one forced anyone. It's completely different mentality. If you think that top players were forced to play objectively better character for their role you are delusional.

[xZerocidex]

Offtopic, but i just noticed your avator pic. I enjoy those youtube video's you put up sir!
@styil:
All i read is that he knows some people playing WoW would prefer relying solely on skill without the need to get to a certain gear level.
i don't see the huge issue here.

Problem with that is the community loves to have steep Ilvl requirements in order to join them.

In order for WoW to be a skill only game then they would have to remove gear progression from the game which would probably cause ppl to lose interest.

[Aggrophobic]

No one forced anyone. It's completely different mentality. If you think that top players were forced to play objectively better character for their role you are delusional.

If you think that such powerful items as legendaries have no impact on who comes and who does not in a "world first" guild, you're delusional.

[Charge me Doctor]

If you think that such powerful items as legendaries have no impact on who comes and who does not in a "world first" guild, you're delusional.

If you is a top player you already have 5 characters farming mythic+ whole day every day. Which one of them performs better - that's your main (aka, character that you raid with). If your main for some reason perform worse - you log on to other character if your setup allows you to do so, or you are being benched.
If you have chosen to gear up only your survival hunter and get to kill 0 bosses in legion - well, that's your mistake and no legendary will help you. You literally have to keep progressing multiple characters (not random specs, but those who are at least in top 10) and the ones who perform better are used for raid. You do not decrease chances of your raid to success by bringing bad character into it because of someones feelings.

Seriously, do you think that a pro player who has "an alt" with top DPS legendaries is forced to use this "alt"? It became his main a millisecond he've seen a legendary name that popped out in chat window, they are not forced because they know that they have to bring the best possible character to raid.

"But charge me doctor, what happens when a DH-alt of one player get top legendary while other DH-main player doesn't have one?", this DH-main player jumps on his alt character, if the difference in DPS from bringing a DH with legendary allows it. That's that simple. It's all numbers, no one is forced to do anything, pro players are not "benched" (because to be "benched" you have to be out of luck since all of your characters became irrelevant by someone elses' one character getting a bis lgendary, this shit just doesn't happen).

Seriously, are you going to make an argument that all players are forced to use a rotation on their DPS characters? I just want to spam mortal strike, fuck blizzard for forcing me to use all these other buttons, right?

[Ehuehuecopter]

Nice Bullshit Thread as usual.


Not even hardcore raider benched people

Stop being entitled like retards

INFRACTION

[Aggrophobic]

If you is a top player you already have 5 characters farming mythic+ whole day every day. Which one of them performs better - that's your main (aka, character that you raid with). If your main for some reason perform worse - you log on to other character if your setup allows you to do so, or you are being benched.
If you have chosen to gear up only your survival hunter and get to kill 0 bosses in legion - well, that's your mistake and no legendary will help you. You literally have to keep progressing multiple characters (not random specs, but those who are at least in top 10) and the ones who perform better are used for raid. You do not decrease chances of your raid to success by bringing bad character into it because of someones feelings.

Seriously, do you think that a pro player who has "an alt" with top DPS legendaries is forced to use this "alt"? It became his main a millisecond he've seen a legendary name that popped out in chat window, they are not forced because they know that they have to bring the best possible character to raid.

"But charge me doctor, what happens when a DH-alt of one player get top legendary while other DH-main player doesn't have one?", this DH-main player jumps on his alt character, if the difference in DPS from bringing a DH with legendary allows it. That's that simple. It's all numbers, no one is forced to do anything, pro players are not "benched" (because to be "benched" you have to be out of luck since all of your characters became irrelevant by someone elses' one character getting a bis lgendary, this shit just doesn't happen).

Seriously, are you going to make an argument that all players are forced to use a rotation on their DPS characters? I just want to spam mortal strike, fuck blizzard for forcing me to use all these other buttons, right?

Now you're just being silly.
Of course the top players will have 3-4, maybe more alts and of course the'll play the best one.

In Method at least, they specifically said that some players had to play certain alts becuase they had strong legendaries on thoes alts.

It's not as big of a deal for the top players though as they have the time and dedication to gear up multiple characters. The average player is screwed if they end up only getting "utility" legendaries however.

[Charge me Doctor]

Now you're just being silly.
Of course the top players will have 3-4, maybe more alts and of course the'll play the best one.

In Method at least, they specifically said that some players had to play certain alts becuase they had strong legendaries on thoes alts.

It's not as big of a deal for the top players though as they have the time and dedication to gear up multiple characters. The average player is screwed if they end up only getting "utility" legendaries however.

The average player is not a pro player and they can make up for the "loss" in DPS from not getting a legendary by not drooling all over their keyboard while raiding. Average players do not do mythic content at the pace pro players do, they do not need this advantage, they are not forced to have legendaries, because they are average players. If your RL/GM is delusional tool - yeah, he will bench people based on their legendaries, but players who understand how this game works won't. Legendaries won't help you to walk away from a group of players when targeted by *nasty shit which will drain 20% of healers mana to cover up your fuckup*, even 10% personal DPS difference won't push a boss from P1 to P2 before he casts *nasty shit that does a lot of AoE damage* second time (arguably, having 50 more ILVLs will, but not a single bis legendary, and even if it's a speedrun then gear/class/spec requirements can go really crazy).

That's you being silly that problems of pro players (which are not problems for them, but simply a reality of being a pro player) are somehow average players issue

[exor37]

Great sum of excuses. Actually doesn't matter since even most P2Win Asian RPGs have better balance than WoW nowadays.

P2W and Balance in one game makes so much sense ,,, u know...

[Aggrophobic]

The average player is not a pro player and they can make up for the "loss" in DPS from not getting a legendary by not drooling all over their keyboard while raiding. Average players do not do mythic content at the pace pro players do, they do not need this advantage, they are not forced to have legendaries, because they are average players. If your RL/GM is delusional tool - yeah, he will bench people based on their legendaries, but players who understand how this game works won't. Legendaries won't help you to walk away from a group of players when targeted by *nasty shit which will drain 20% of healers mana to cover up your fuckup*, even 10% personal DPS difference won't push a boss from P1 to P2 before he casts *nasty shit that does a lot of AoE damage* second time (arguably, having 50 more ILVLs will, but not a single bis legendary, and even if it's a speedrun then gear/class/spec requirements can go really crazy).

That's you being silly that problems of pro players (which are not problems for them, but simply a reality of being a pro player) are somehow average players issue

It's an issue at all levels of play but even more so at lower levels.
A bad player needs the extra help a legendary provides even more than the best of players.

Thats why it takes weeks for the average mythic guild to clear EN and only a day for the best ones. Most players simply need gear to overpower the bosses and legendaries can pretty much make or break a class. A DH with the ring does good single target damage, one without does not for example.
An unholy DK without the bracers does... Nothing and so on.

The legendary system is pure crap and no amount of white knighting on your part will change that.

[Charge me Doctor]

It's an issue at all levels of play but even more so at lower levels.
A bad player needs the extra help a legendary provides even more than the best of players.

Thats why it takes weeks for the average mythic guild to clear EN and only a day for the best ones. Most players simply need gear to overpower the bosses and legendaries can pretty much make or break a class. A DH with the ring does good single target damage, one without does not for example.
An unholy DK without the bracers does... Nothing and so on.

The legendary system is pure crap and no amount of white knighting on your part will change that.

a bad player can't and shouldn't be fixed by throwing free top-notch gear at him. Ever. He should become better by trying and failing and realizing why he fails.

[Deleted]

P2W and Balance in one game makes so much sense ,,, u know...

Explain how it doesnt make sense.

[Aggrophobic]

a bad player can't and shouldn't be fixed by throwing free top-notch gear at him. Ever. He should become better by trying and failing and realizing why he fails.

That is very true, I agree with you.
Thats not how it works in WoW though.

The average players throws himself at the easy bosses enough times, gets gear and after a while even the hard bosses die.
Even better players do this to a to a certain extent. Maybe not so much in Legion as befor but still, it happens.

[Ehuehuecopter]

So we got the point "nobody got benchend coz of legendary" or we are still swimming in the sea of retardness?

[Charge me Doctor]

That is very true, I agree with you.
Thats not how it works in WoW though.

The average players throws himself at the easy bosses enough times, gets gear and after a while even the hard bosses die.
Even better players do this to a to a certain extent. Maybe not so much in Legion as befor but still, it happens.

that's the difference between good players and bad players. Average player do not do that. Bad player does. Majority of WoW players are bad players (aka, do not want to perform better to get better reward, they want to do easy content enough time to overgear content (which will be outdated by that time)).

i'll repeat myself - you are talking about bad player, which happen to be a majority, and became universally acceptable thing thanks to previous expansions. Now, in legion, thanks to various changed they made to raid encounters and where you can put your time and effort to improve your character bad players are at their disadvantage now. Guild which raid normal raids get same gear of local quest ilvl (which puts things in perspective of "why do i bother with wiping in cenarius normal while i could do local quests then?), giving them more incentive to try heroic mode (which is, basically, difference between normal dungeon and mythic dungeon without a key) and upgrade from a bad player to a good player, who tries to be a better player, not to have a character that makes his mistakes irrelevant.

Legendary system enforces this behavior, there are plenty of players with top legendaries who do less DPS than good players with non-bis legendaries or without them mostly because they fail to do the encounter.
I get what you are talking about, that increasing your ilvl increases chances of finishing harder encounters, which is fine. But legendaries are not that great in this case. If you decide to waste another week on doing normal EN instead of wiping and getting better in heroic/mythic you get lower ilvl on average (because items you get from there are worthless outside of legendaries and trinkets)

[Thoughtful Trolli]

Everyone at blizzard knew about the issues, everyone at blizzard didn't do anything about it.

If you're gonna try to poop on someone in particular, poop on jay wilson. He's already gone, but his RNG system is still clearly around.

[exor37]

Explain how it doesnt make sense.

explain how it does