How monk tanks are doing?

[Zephirdd]

They're literally the worst tank, while having some very niche use. They're by far the least desired tank for both high end raiding and PUGs
You can tank most contents just fine but you will always be inferior and groups will always pick any other tank over you
If you aren't hardcore and you really like the playstyle, you may give it a go. Otherwise just stick with what you have.

You need tons of heals when other tanks need no attention at all, you struggle holding aggro on skittish when.other tanks can handle it with relative ease(except war tank I suppose)

http://www.wowprogress.com/guild/us/frostmourne/Entropy

World 5th Helya kill was done with a Brewmaster.

I don't know about you, but being part of a world 5th kill is far from "you are the worst tank". For reference, other tanks were War/Druid(4th), War/DH(3rd), War/Druid(2nd) and War/Druid(1st). If anything, DKs are supposedly the "worst" tanks(they are not). Keep in mind that this is on Legion, where there is a massive investiment in switching characters so a character that was used on EN(pre-buffs) is more likely to show up on future content.

Brewmasters are gods of Teeming/Necrotic due to their infinite kiting mechanics, and were very preferred on mythic Guarm before they changed the solo-tankability of the fight.

Brewmasters have excellent mobility as well as really strong burst AoE. They also have 100% active mitigation uptime in the form of ISB stacking, and for M+ they have a plethora of AoE tanking tools(Leg Sweep/Ox Statue, Exploding Keg, Rushing Jade Wind for agro or Special Delivery for even more AoE) as well as methods of cheesing mechanics that don't have a huge cd(ISB+BoC stagger freezing).

No, Brewmasters are not the worst tanks. Tanks are either overpowered(guardian druids, pre-nerf warriors) or balanced on the current state of the game.

Also, contrary to popular belief Brewmasters need very little heals. Don't try to top them off, let them live around the 35-50% health range and they can sustain themselves via Obstinate Determination and Healing Elixirs; unlike other tanks, BRMs can survive at low health pools due to stagger/isb mechanics.

[stross01]

That's weird. Ever since 5.2 patch the AoE cap should be 20 mobs. With above that the damage being spread evenly. (20x damage of keg smash spread to 30 targets for example).

So it shouldn't affect "small" groups of 10 or so.

Edit: Went to test it and it seems what you say does happen. 60k minimum hit on 12 mob pack. I guess keg smash has its own AoE "DR" made for it for some reason.

Yeeeeeap. I'm not sure why AOE exists in the first place.

[Llarold]

They're literally the worst tank

Literally not true. By no metric is that even remotely accurate.

[Will]

They're literally the worst tank, while having some very niche use. They're by far the least desired tank for both high end raiding and PUGs
You can tank most contents just fine but you will always be inferior and groups will always pick any other tank over you
If you aren't hardcore and you really like the playstyle, you may give it a go. Otherwise just stick with what you have.

You need tons of heals when other tanks need no attention at all, you struggle holding aggro on skittish when.other tanks can handle it with relative ease(except war tank I suppose)

You part of the anti - BrM circlejerk? You honestly don't have the faintest clue what you're blathering about. The only people who claim BrM isn't competitive either haven't had a good one in their group yet, or simply won free tickets on the hate-train.

[Inuyaki]

and were very preferred on mythic Guarm before they changed the solo-tankability of the fight.

Druids and Warriors were better for that.

Monk Druid Paladin seem to be the 3 strongest tanks for NH in any order...
My personal guess is that Monk will have an easier time with many dots than bears who kinda have to decide between armor and magic reduce. I don't have a Paladin, so no idea how strong exactly they will be in NH.

[Guzrud]

They're literally the worst tank, while having some very niche use. They're by far the least desired tank for both high end raiding and PUGs
You can tank most contents just fine but you will always be inferior and groups will always pick any other tank over you
If you aren't hardcore and you really like the playstyle, you may give it a go. Otherwise just stick with what you have.

You need tons of heals when other tanks need no attention at all, you struggle holding aggro on skittish when.other tanks can handle it with relative ease(except war tank I suppose)

See when you post something like this it just shows you have zero understanding of what makes a tank class good or what is actually powerful in a raid scenario. I raid about the US 80-120 range so by no means super Cutting Edge content but still clearing content at a decent rate and in all of EN there was not really a fight where tank damage was so bad that you could not manage it and you were in danger of dying at anytime. We have about 250 pulls into Mythic Helya at this time and I will tell you that she can just smoke tanks at anytime. I main a Paladin and if you ask any Paladin tank that has done mythic Helya they will share my sentiment that you can basically die to 2 hard melee hits outside of SotR windows. I have gone from 80% to dead in sub 2 seconds more that I care to admit with an 893 Paladin with 40+ Traits and an 917 weapon. See the big problem with Paladin tanks is that we will actually take significantly less damage than a Monk tank but when we do actually take damage it is in dangerous amounts where our survival is in jeopardy. This is where a Monk absolutely shines. They are so hard to actually kill in a raid scenario with the way they take damage.

The primary function of a tank is to stay alive obviously everyone knows that. Doing damage is also important but not at the cost of our survival. Currently a monk can already maintain 100% uptime on Ironskin Brew(I have ended 5 man dungeons wiht 4+ minutes remaining on the buff) and come NH four set and the right legendaries a monk will gain a significant amount of extra brews to purify off stagger throughout the encounter.

The important thing to realize is that in most encounters the tank you play is pretty meaningless as every tank can handle the incoming damage just fine. However just like with tight dps checks where dps need to be on their game there are encounters where tank damage is qutie significant and will test tanks. In these scenarios where the tank is taking heavy boss damage a Monk truely shines. In this aspect they will be the strongest tank by quite a large margin and honestly with the Blackout Combo interaction with Ironskin Brew and the huge excess of brews that will be available for monks they should be almost unkillable in raid content with even a mildly competent healer.

Monks will be EXTREMELY strong in NH with four set and legendaries to say otherwise just illustrates how ill-informed you actually are about tank balance in general.

[Jaewalk]

Only thing that pisses me off about BrM is that my 861 prot pal with no enchants crushes my 885 BrM in damage - especially AOE. I doubt 9% fixes that. Other than that kit is fine- however if your in red stagger with no brews left it sucks how your pretty much screwed as BrM.

[Sticx]

See when you post something like this it just shows you have zero understanding of what makes a tank class good or what is actually powerful in a raid scenario. I raid about the US 80-120 range so by no means super Cutting Edge content but still clearing content at a decent rate and in all of EN there was not really a fight where tank damage was so bad that you could not manage it and you were in danger of dying at anytime. We have about 250 pulls into Mythic Helya at this time and I will tell you that she can just smoke tanks at anytime. I main a Paladin and if you ask any Paladin tank that has done mythic Helya they will share my sentiment that you can basically die to 2 hard melee hits outside of SotR windows. I have gone from 80% to dead in sub 2 seconds more that I care to admit with an 893 Paladin with 40+ Traits and an 917 weapon. See the big problem with Paladin tanks is that we will actually take significantly less damage than a Monk tank but when we do actually take damage it is in dangerous amounts where our survival is in jeopardy. This is where a Monk absolutely shines. They are so hard to actually kill in a raid scenario with the way they take damage.

The primary function of a tank is to stay alive obviously everyone knows that. Doing damage is also important but not at the cost of our survival. Currently a monk can already maintain 100% uptime on Ironskin Brew(I have ended 5 man dungeons wiht 4+ minutes remaining on the buff) and come NH four set and the right legendaries a monk will gain a significant amount of extra brews to purify off stagger throughout the encounter.

The important thing to realize is that in most encounters the tank you play is pretty meaningless as every tank can handle the incoming damage just fine. However just like with tight dps checks where dps need to be on their game there are encounters where tank damage is qutie significant and will test tanks. In these scenarios where the tank is taking heavy boss damage a Monk truely shines. In this aspect they will be the strongest tank by quite a large margin and honestly with the Blackout Combo interaction with Ironskin Brew and the huge excess of brews that will be available for monks they should be almost unkillable in raid content with even a mildly competent healer.

Monks will be EXTREMELY strong in NH with four set and legendaries to say otherwise just illustrates how ill-informed you actually are about tank balance in general.

Nice to see a well informed post in here every once in a while.

[Tech614]

Only thing that pisses me off about BrM is that my 861 prot pal with no enchants crushes my 885 BrM in damage - especially AOE. I doubt 9% fixes that. Other than that kit is fine- however if your in red stagger with no brews left it sucks how your pretty much screwed as BrM.

Prot Pal crushes every tank in dps, brewmaster should be top 3 in single target after the 9% buff though which is nice. DH may retake AoE king from prot pal after their 9% buff, but their ST will be below most still.

If you're in red stagger with no available brews that is definitely a screw up, and you should analyze where you went wrong and fix it.

[Noocta]

People don't value Brewmaster's survability because most people don't play in environnement where tanks are in any danger of dying. That's simple as that.

[Anufis]

I tanked my first mythic dungeon with 795 ilvl without dying once(black rook hold), I tanked several +5 dungeons with 840 ilvl without wiping and dying, yesterday I tanked Kara with 848 ilvl and we even attempted time run(but failed at moroes because didn't bring drums) with 3 people being there for first time(healer was deaf), we had 1 wipe at moroes, 1 at maiden, 1 at medivh and 2 at last boss due to people failing to do mechanics. All that time I didn't even once felt that my monk is weak.
Two days ago we went to do BC timewalking and I could pull packs of 20-30 mobs in Shattered Halls and feel myself fine(maybe a little of kiting).
There is also great tank tester which is tank dummy in order hall, where I got to 43 stacks with 840 ilvl, but with my DH the best I got is 25 stacks with 850.

TLDR monks are great, why do you whine?

[Vins04]

I was doing an Archway +4 (I know its not top tier content but neither is my gear), and our healer got stuck on a platform, I cleared 5 packs without a single heal. I was very surprised to say the least. I am really starting to enjoy the BrM tank.

[Jaewalk]

I tanked my first mythic dungeon with 795 ilvl without dying once(black rook hold), I tanked several +5 dungeons with 840 ilvl without wiping and dying, yesterday I tanked Kara with 848 ilvl and we even attempted time run(but failed at moroes because didn't bring drums) with 3 people being there for first time(healer was deaf), we had 1 wipe at moroes, 1 at maiden, 1 at medivh and 2 at last boss due to people failing to do mechanics. All that time I didn't even once felt that my monk is weak.
Two days ago we went to do BC timewalking and I could pull packs of 20-30 mobs in Shattered Halls and feel myself fine(maybe a little of kiting).
There is also great tank tester which is tank dummy in order hall, where I got to 43 stacks with 840 ilvl, but with my DH the best I got is 25 stacks with 850.

TLDR monks are great, why do you whine?

Getting carried doesn't count.

[Julmara]

why woud you ever want to take a brewmaster over any other tank ? he has almost zero raid utility and takes overall more dmg

[Guzrud]

why woud you ever want to take a brewmaster over any other tank ? he has almost zero raid utility and takes overall more dmg

Overall damage taken is a horrible metric when considering how good or bad a tank is. While I agree they have very little in the utility department they are very strong in some situations which I explained in a post previously in this thread.

[Anufis]

Getting carried doesn't count.

I was so happy for that 855 carry group.

[Yhcti]

How's the mobility etc of BrM now? I main Havoc/Vengeance and am desperate for another Melee DPS/Tank alt, looking at Prot/Ret or BrM/WW, 99% of my game time is in M+/PvP

[Deleted]

What's this utility gap you're all talking about compared to all other tanks?? I honestly don't see it as that big of a deal tbh.

We have leg sweep, which is a huuuuge utility spell in my book.

[stross01]

What's this utility gap you're all talking about compared to all other tanks?? I honestly don't see it as that big of a deal tbh.

We have leg sweep, which is a huuuuge utility spell in my book.

Paladin: Blessing of Protection, Blessing of Sacrifice, Blessing of Spellwarding, Blessing of Freedom, Lay Hands, Hand of the Protector, Final Stand, Aegis of Light, Consecrated Ground, Last Defender, Avenger's Shield silence

Death Knight: Deathgrip, Gorefiend's Grasp, Anti-Magic Shell, Mark of Blood, Raise Ally, Mind Freeze (15 yds)

Demon Hunter: Sigil of Chains, Sigil of Silence, Sigil of Misery, Spectral Sight, Last Resort, Glide, Nether Bond, Infernal Strike

Druid: Stampeding Roar, Rebirth, Skull Bash (13 yds), Typhoon, Mass Entanglement

Warrior: Shockwave, Intervene/Safeguard, Heroic Leap, Warlord's Challenge, Spell Reflect

Monk: Leg Sweep? , Statue, and most marginal, Chi Burst, which heals for close-to-nothing.

Also, a LOT, LOT, LOT of classes have AOE stuns. The chances of you needing a Leg Sweep every 45 seconds over a similar 3-5 second stun is slim.

- - - Updated - - -

How's the mobility etc of BrM now? I main Havoc/Vengeance and am desperate for another Melee DPS/Tank alt, looking at Prot/Ret or BrM/WW, 99% of my game time is in M+/PvP

Brm in PVP will leave you in a state of profound sadness.

[Deleted]

BrM isn't bad overall especially for raid it's fine nothing op just fine, but it has some pretty big problems in his damage dealing and aoe ability in his toolkit.
Compare his aoe capabilities to a guardian or a blood dk and you see how bullshit brew is, u HAVE to spec into rushing jade wind and even thats a somewhat lackluster ability that clearly ought to be baseline.
Overall for non raiding i can't recommend brewmaster over any other tank due to these issues.